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Old 23rd July 2012, 01:58   #1  |  Link
zerowalker
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YV24/I444 for Capturing.

Not really sure where to put this, but i think this is somewhat right.

I am recording gameplays and have been using Fraps, but donīt like how it first records YV12 then decode to RGB to later convert to YV12(for encoding), itīs unecessery chroma loss.

I then changed to dxtory(still use fraps when dxtory donīt work though), and it allows me to use whatever codec i prefer.

Here is the thing:

I prefer to use Lagarith or UT Video Codec.

both of them are pretty much the same on compression, except that Lagarith has some Insane advantages for simple 2D games (Gameboy etc).

But the problem is, i do music videos so i want to have as much original quality as possible.

I noticed how bad YV12 sadly is thanks to it crushing the Chroma.

YUY2 is much better but still not "Good".

YV24/I444 is Perfect, almost identical to RGB except for Banding issues which occurs in all YV formats (donīt know why, but i guess itīs the color formula or something).


The thing is, none of the codecs or any other i can find, support YV24, only Yuy2, YV12 and RGB.

And RGB is just to intensive and too big.

And i know FFV1 supports YV24, but itīs too slow, good compression though


Anyone knows if itīs easy to add YV24 to Lagarith as the source code is available?

Or is it much programming to do, and not just Add the format and let it compress it?
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Old 23rd July 2012, 04:23   #2  |  Link
vivan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerowalker View Post
And RGB is just to intensive and too big.

...

Anyone knows if itīs easy to add YV24 to Lagarith as the source code is available?
YV24 is as intensive and big as RGB, since it's 24 bit/pixel format too.

Last edited by vivan; 23rd July 2012 at 06:57.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 14:49   #3  |  Link
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Really?
YV12 and YUY2 are extremely close in size.
And when i did some X264 encodings from RGB to YV12/YU16/YV24 with CRF, they all had the same size, but YV24 kept most color details.

Though if i save YV24 to lagarith, it upscales to RGB.



But if YV24 is as intensive and big as RGB, what it the difference between them?
I really canīt find any difference from the information, just some formulas that i donīt understand.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 15:21   #4  |  Link
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YV12 and YUY2 are similar in size because they use close to similar bits per pixel (12 for YV12 and 16 for YUY2).
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Old 23rd July 2012, 16:24   #5  |  Link
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Ah i see, but is it really the same?
Cause even if YV12 and YV16 is close, RGB is insane.
21gb YV16 became about 33gb if i upscaled it to RGB.

Isnīt Yuy formats smaller thanks to the formula in how it stores colors etc?

Or is YV24 going to become 33gb aswell?
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Old 23rd July 2012, 16:55   #6  |  Link
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Ah i see, but is it really the same?
Cause even if YV12 and YV16 is close, RGB is insane.
21gb YV16 became about 33gb if i upscaled it to RGB.
What else did you expect when you increased the bpp from 16-bits to 24-bits? You increase that by 33% and you get a ... 33% increase in size.

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Originally Posted by zerowalker View Post
Isnīt Yuy formats smaller thanks to the formula in how it stores colors etc?

Or is YV24 going to become 33gb aswell?
No, it isn't smaller due to that. YUY2 is smaller because of the lower bpp and through the use of subsampling to further decreases the bits used per sample. If YUY2 used 24-bits per pixel it and had no subsampling it would be just as large as 24-bit RGB.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 17:18   #7  |  Link
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Use YCoCg space instead YUV.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 17:23   #8  |  Link
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Does Lagarith or UT Video Codec support YCoCg? If not, that doesn't really help him since he's trying to find a format to use for lossless capturing and it doesn't seem like he wants to use H.264 lossless.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 17:38   #9  |  Link
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If he provide YCoCg to codec (flagged as YUV) then codec use is transparent - conversion YCoCg <> RGB is reversible.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 17:40   #10  |  Link
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If he provide YCoCg to codec (flagged as YUV) then codec use is transparent - conversion YCoCg <> RGB is reversible.
I think you misunderstand what he is doing. He is trying to find a good colorspace format to use for doing screen captures. How exactly is he going to provide YCoCg to Lagarith or UT Video Codec when doing screen capturing?
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Old 23rd July 2012, 17:52   #11  |  Link
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YEs as Sassbot is saying, i am Capturing Games.

RGB is the Best of course, but itīs just to extensive.
And as YV24 is the same in size, that sadly isnīt the way to go, nor can i use it.

though YCoCg(component??) isnīt something i am familiar with at all.

Is it small, how does it work?

And is there a way to use it with Lagarith, or is there any other codec thatīs good with it?

If there isnīt a way, i guess i will have to use YUY2 currently, till i can capture RGB.

Though i think my CPU and hardrive is bottlenecked.

80mb write, and 4ghz cpu 4 cores (i5).
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Old 23rd July 2012, 17:56   #12  |  Link
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You can always try using VfW x264 and use lossless H.264 and see what colorspaces you can select. Should give you better results even with the same colorspace as you tried with Lagarith or UT.
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Old 24th July 2012, 01:19   #13  |  Link
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Just don't forget to use a really fast preset if you do so.
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Old 24th July 2012, 04:02   #14  |  Link
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is it really any good?
I havenīt really heard of anyone using x264 for capturing?

If i can use it, i sure will, as games use 1-2 cores, the x264 can use 2-3 cores, it should be pretty stable i guess?
Can anyone give me some more information, is it the same as normal encoding (Megui), if so i will have to go with Faster-Veryfast maybe even Ultra Fast;O

EDIT:

Tried playing around, but canīt say i like it though, and i canīt get "--output-csp" to work, it just Tabs to desktop everytime i take the game windows up and it tries to capture.
I tried normal, and it becomes YV12, and i tried "Keep Internal Colorspace" and it still became YV12 for some reason, and itīs bigger than Lagarith but slower;S

Btw, i have to use Zero Latency, else it doesnīt capture.


PS:

In avisynth i noticed if i use Info(), the x264 files all say YV24 in Colorpace, while Lagarith says YUY2 (i have chosen that), but in the right corner it says YV12 for x264 for some reason.
So itīs downsampling on decoding?

Last edited by zerowalker; 24th July 2012 at 05:06.
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Old 24th July 2012, 14:26   #15  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SassBot View Post
I think you misunderstand what he is doing. He is trying to find a good colorspace format to use for doing screen captures. How exactly is he going to provide YCoCg to Lagarith or UT Video Codec when doing screen capturing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerowalker View Post
YV24/I444 is Perfect, almost identical to RGB except for Banding issues which occurs in all YV formats (donīt know why, but i guess itīs the color formula or something).
If he is happy with YV24 then banding can be reduced by use YCoCg.
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Old 24th July 2012, 14:54   #16  |  Link
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pandy can you explain more?
I really donīt know what YCoCg is, the only thing i think of is the color transfer in Component.

Thanks
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Old 24th July 2012, 15:03   #17  |  Link
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If he is happy with YV24 then banding can be reduced by use YCoCg.
Great, but again what screen capture codec allows you to select YCoCg? He isn't talking about the colorspace format of the final encode but the colorspace to use while capturing. Saying "use YCoCg" over and over doesn't help them.

Last edited by SassBot; 24th July 2012 at 15:08.
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Old 1st August 2012, 10:50   #18  |  Link
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Originally Posted by SassBot View Post
Great, but again what screen capture codec allows you to select YCoCg? He isn't talking about the colorspace format of the final encode but the colorspace to use while capturing. Saying "use YCoCg" over and over doesn't help them.

Yes, You have right - my fault - i can't provide ready to use tool - however source for Lagarith is available and this should be doable - if not by topic author then perhaps someone will make such modification (or Lagarith Author - this can be good from Lagarith popularity point of view - first codec supporting YCoCg - conversion seems to be easier than for RGB<>YUV so new functionality for almost free?).

Last edited by pandy; 2nd August 2012 at 11:46.
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Old 7th August 2012, 17:47   #19  |  Link
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I donīt get it, what is YCoCg?
Is it comparative to RGB or what?
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Old 7th August 2012, 17:48   #20  |  Link
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http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=161736
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