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Old 15th December 2015, 14:19   #34661  |  Link
mogli
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Hmmm... Windowed or FSE mode? Try FSE, it's usually more reliable.
FSE, but I don't think we should spent to much time on this problem if FRC isn't the right way to go for this case and ReClock solves it;
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So I suppose I should revert the OSD change.
Either that or remove the static line "repeated frames 0" from the OSD while FRC is on because it's useless if it doesn't actually count anything.
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Old 15th December 2015, 14:29   #34662  |  Link
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Most of these are flagged correctly, so most of the time you can either force the deinterlacing completely off, or you can force madVR into film mode, if you want to be extra safe.
Thanks a lot for finding the time to explain this stuff in detail!

And good to know my eyes weren't lying when deint=Off seemed to look exactly the same as deint=Film with interlaced-flagged progressive PAL. No more confusion about what the "IVTC" processing is doing in each scenario.
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Old 15th December 2015, 14:40   #34663  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
type the modes in it supports. madVR will than choice the best display mode for the content you want to play.

adding 25/30 is not really useful most of the time 50/60 have the same effect.
Just wondering, in Windows there are slightly different resolutions listed under the "Adapter" and "Monitor" tabs. "Adapter" includes kind of everything whereas "Monitor" for example only lists 25 Hz as interlaced, not progressive.

Don't know which one of those are "correct" but I've typed 1080p25 into madVR anyway and it seems to work ok. Hitting the TV's info button shows "25p" but perhaps it's actually 50 Hz (which is probably what you meant by saying 25/30 may not be useful?)
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Old 15th December 2015, 15:09   #34664  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
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However, GPU gamma ramps don't use dithering, I think, so it would not be a good solution for image quality.
I doubt they do, although for higher bit depth displays they could send a higher bit depth gamma ramp and let the display itself do dithering. On Windows, gamma ramp values are 16-bit integers (although there are only 256 values per channel).

By the way, I have my monitor calibrated to 120 nits (or 120 lux? I always get them confused), well below the minimum of 400 that madVR allows. Is 400 simply the point below which normal (non-HDR) luminance values would start getting cut off? In other words, what is the HDR luminance value of 'normal white'?

Last edited by Ver Greeneyes; 15th December 2015 at 15:15.
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Old 15th December 2015, 15:41   #34665  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
type the modes in it supports. madVR will than choice the best display mode for the content you want to play.

adding 25/30 is not really useful most of the time 50/60 have the same effect.
Thanks. So if my monitor support both 720p, 1080p and 4K. Should i type all of them then?
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Old 15th December 2015, 17:29   #34666  |  Link
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it best to always scale to the native resolution adding lower resolution is only useful for a screen that can't do 60 or high hz.

for example some screen can't do UHD at 60 because it is connected with hdmi 1.4 so adding 1080p is kind of useful.
so normally this:
2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p50, 2160p59, 2160p60.

if the device can't use 23p or it is flawed like a cheap samsung screen. 60 hz only and smoothmotion is the way to go.
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Old 15th December 2015, 17:45   #34667  |  Link
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huhn
I thought that the best modes are 24 for NTSC and 25 Hz for PAL. OK, 50 Hz is OK for for PAL, too, but 60 Hz would cause dropped/repeated frames with any source, wouldn't it?
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Old 15th December 2015, 17:55   #34668  |  Link
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Very nice update there...

I tested some true HDR videos, and i have to say, i really like what youve done there. Looks very good indeed..
BUT, is there a way to go lower them 400nits?

Its still a bit too dark for my taste, maybe 200? not shure.
ALso tested 10000 and wooow, thats way too dark. I have no clue what nits my monitor has. (its an CRT on wich im testing atm)
On my HD TV it also looks very good, but also a tiny bit too dark with 400nits..If i could go down to 200 i would be very happy

The test videos where 1200nits by the way.. Trailers from Pi and exodus in HDR..
Oh, are there also 1080p HDR video samples sòmewhere? 4k is really heavy here..argh.

Oh an dteh ENhance Detail option, (sorry, just found out about it) i do like. how does it work exactly? at first glanze it look just like an sharpener to me, but its different, i cant tell what it is, but call me interessted.

Greetings

EDIT:

i allmost forgot.
After downloading the new madTestPatternSource samples, i wanted to try them, but found out that my MPCHC64bit didnt want to. cant handle the file.
I did install teh new madTestPatternSource stuff and the bat and all..

It did work with MPCHC32bit.
So i guess they only work with 32bit player?, or am i missing something?

Last edited by BetA13; 15th December 2015 at 18:19.
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Old 15th December 2015, 18:36   #34669  |  Link
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Originally Posted by GCRaistlin View Post
huhn
I thought that the best modes are 24 for NTSC and 25 Hz for PAL. OK, 50 Hz is OK for for PAL, too, but 60 Hz would cause dropped/repeated frames with any source, wouldn't it?
the best mode for NTSC movies is 23p nearly no movie is true 24p and that's in my list. because you are right about this.

if the TV has a flawed 23/24p mode (that's really not that rare.) or no PAL mode (heard of this problem never saw it personally) than smooth motion is the best way to get smooth playback without repeated or dropped frames.

and TV shows are offend PSF 30 hz or 60 hz
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Old 15th December 2015, 18:43   #34670  |  Link
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@madshi: I played a couple of HDR sample videos with the new build, at normal 100 nits peak brightness level. I too feel that I would prefer a brighter output than it is at 400 nits setting of “display peak luminance”. Can you please offer 100 nits option in the dropdown for “display peak luminance”?

By the way, even at lower brightness, HDR samples looked very pleasing. Thanks for the great work!
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Old 15th December 2015, 18:47   #34671  |  Link
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does anyone know if a GTX 960 is able to do 4k downscaling to 1080p (at 24fps and 60fps)? or is it too slow?
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Old 15th December 2015, 19:45   #34672  |  Link
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depends on your settings. without LL it isn't any problem just tested 50 hz.
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Old 15th December 2015, 19:46   #34673  |  Link
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So my display is currently calibrated to 100 nits, since that is the intended reference level for SDR.
I can get that up to 300-350 or so if I disable backlight scanning, trading motion clarity for brightness.
But with HDR content not being very common right now, I'd be more inclined to just compress HDR sources to 100 nits than mess with creating a new preset on the TV that I have to switch to. Do you plan on extending the range of options for this?

It's not clear to me whether you're doing this algorithmically (in which case perhaps we could just enter a value from say 48-10000 in the box?) or if these are hand-tuned presets that you have created, in which case adding more options would be a lot of work.
HDR is looking pretty good on an SDR display now though. Another impressive addition to madVR.

Something that I was wondering though: I believe that one of the videos I have is HDR, but lacking any of the metadata, as it has that very desaturated, washed-out look that HDR videos did prior to this update.
Is there any way to tag a file as HDR, or is it basically beyond repair if that metadata is missing?

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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
BFI at low frame rates like 60Hz will strobe way too much. Its best done inside the TV/Monitor which can drive the panel/backlight at much higher rates.
madshi has commented before that there are no immediate plans for this.
It really depends on the display. If you're limited to a 60Hz input, you're correct that BFI is not a very useful feature to have.
If your display accepts 120Hz though, you can use BFI to give you an effective 24/48/72/96Hz depending on your preference.
I can see this being a very desirable feature once 120Hz OLED displays get here, since you can't count on the display manufacturers to give you comprehensive BFI options. LG's current OLEDs don't have any options for BFI - and from what I've heard, they don't plan to add them either.

I will say that BFI, instead of backlight scanning/strobing, is largely useless on LCDs in my experience. The slow pixel response times result in much worse image quality when BFI is enabled.
On a CRT or OLED display, or anything else with fast enough switching times - perhaps a DLP projector - it does just look as though you reduced the refresh rate.

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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
You can however just mimick this with AviSynth if you really want to.
I was actually doing some testing with BFI recently, and the only way that I was able to get it working was to use AviSynth with an old version of ffdshow in MPC-HC.
JRiver wouldn't even load ffdshow, it just defaulted to its internal LAV video decoder.
And when it was working, it would occasionally drop a frame/stutter here and there.

While this worked just fine for the testing that I was doing (I wanted to see what native 24Hz would be like on a CRT) it wouldn't work if I intended to actually watch films this way. Inserting two black frames to get an effective 72Hz on a 120Hz OLED TV, for example.

So having support in madVR would be a much better solution.
I don't expect it to be a high priority item, but I would like to see BFI support at some point.

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Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
does anyone know if a GTX 960 is able to do 4k downscaling to 1080p (at 24fps and 60fps)? or is it too slow?
You won't be able to do it in linear light, but it handles this just fine otherwise.

Last edited by 6233638; 15th December 2015 at 19:49.
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Old 15th December 2015, 19:59   #34674  |  Link
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Something that I was wondering though: I believe that one of the videos I have is HDR, but lacking any of the metadata, as it has that very desaturated, washed-out look that HDR videos did prior to this update.
Is there any way to tag a file as HDR, or is it basically beyond repair if that metadata is missing?
Proper HDR reproduction requires a variety of metadata, based on information from the mastering process, and not only a flag that tells madVR that it is HDR.
If you don't have this information, then your video cannot be properly displayed.
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Old 15th December 2015, 20:02   #34675  |  Link
6233638
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Proper HDR reproduction requires a variety of metadata, based on information from the mastering process, and not only a flag that tells madVR that it is HDR.
If you don't have this information, then your video cannot be properly displayed.
I thought that would probably be the case, thanks.
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Old 15th December 2015, 21:32   #34676  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
the best mode for NTSC movies is 23p nearly no movie is true 24p
But with ReClock we can easily change the frame rate of an NTSC movie to 24p with almost no pitch change. Changing the frame rate to 23p will give us bigger pitch change, won't it?
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if the TV has a flawed 23/24p mode
How do we know that it's flawed?

Windows XP reports the following supported modes for my Epson EH-TW9200 projector: "24 Hz, Interlaced", "25 Hz, Interlaced", "30 Hz, Interlaced", "50 Hz", "60 Hz". The appropriate section of Catalyst Control Center doesn't mention interlacing for 24/25/30 Hz; I don't note any issues playing progressive videos on 24 Hz. Does that mean that Windows XP is wrong about "Interlaced"?
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Old 15th December 2015, 21:38   #34677  |  Link
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depends on your settings. without LL it isn't any problem just tested 50 hz.
what settings did you use? and how are the ms?

and with LL?
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Last edited by Thunderbolt8; 15th December 2015 at 22:42.
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Old 15th December 2015, 21:58   #34678  |  Link
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Madishi on a 9500LC crt projector what is the nit capabilities of the projector? Have all the latest direct chain mods and Moomee card
and I can see changes all the way up to 10000nit.
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Old 15th December 2015, 22:57   #34679  |  Link
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But with ReClock we can easily change the frame rate of an NTSC movie to 24p with almost no pitch change. Changing the frame rate to 23p will give us bigger pitch change, won't it?
23p actually means 24000/1001 ~= 23.976 Hz or whatever value close to that the GPU really does. It is for watching blurays at their native frame rate.
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Old 15th December 2015, 22:58   #34680  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
BFI at low frame rates like 60Hz will strobe way too much. Its best done inside the TV/Monitor which can drive the panel/backlight at much higher rates.
madshi has commented before that there are no immediate plans for this.

You can however just mimick this with AviSynth if you really want to.
Got it, thanks
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