Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 6th February 2018, 08:01   #48861  |  Link
Axelpowa
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 16
New HDR to SDR

Hi Madshi!

I've been following the thread in Avsforum about the mapping from hdr to sdr2020 feature of madvr.

I have no knowledge about all this science that is behind the software, but the movie they have chosen, Mad Max, I find it the worst of all HDR examples they could take.

First time I saw it I also noticed weird things like blue colors within fires or gunshots or the shift from the color in explosions to red saturation and white highlights (already solved).

I tested it yesterday night and I changed my settings from 200 peak nits, 25% luminance reduction and 75% ssturation to 200 nits, 30% - 70% and diffuse white to 50 nits spline.

To my eyes I loose some general light, but not at all the frame like if I increase the peak nits value.

I'm a JVC user too.

Every other movie I've watched looks great with the sdr conversion and it even allows me to use my proyector in low lamp mode with a 120" screen.

Perhaps there is place to improve, but I'm very happy with madvr at the moment.

Regards!
Axelpowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 09:56   #48862  |  Link
Manni
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axelpowa View Post
Hi Madshi!

I've been following the thread in Avsforum about the mapping from hdr to sdr2020 feature of madvr.

I have no knowledge about all this science that is behind the software, but the movie they have chosen, Mad Max, I find it the worst of all HDR examples they could take.

First time I saw it I also noticed weird things like blue colors within fires or gunshots or the shift from the color in explosions to red saturation and white highlights (already solved).

I tested it yesterday night and I changed my settings from 200 peak nits, 25% luminance reduction and 75% ssturation to 200 nits, 30% - 70% and diffuse white to 50 nits spline.

To my eyes I loose some general light, but not at all the frame like if I increase the peak nits value.

I'm a JVC user too.

Every other movie I've watched looks great with the sdr conversion and it even allows me to use my proyector in low lamp mode with a 120" screen.

Perhaps there is place to improve, but I'm very happy with madvr at the moment.

Regards!
We chose this movie because it's one of the titles that actually have content near 4000nits. You can try other titles with content significantly above 2000nits, such as Batman vs Superman and you'll see such issues as well. Mad Max is not "worse", it's a demanding title to do right on a projector.

If you only watch films with content up to 1100nits, MadVR's conversion does a great job and there is very little to say, it's near perfect. Initially I had watched a few 1100nits films and I thought MadVR did a fantastic job (and I said so). It significantly improves the low end of the content for these titles. It's only when I started watching movies with more content in the highlights that I noticed some issues.

MadVR's conversion simply compresses highlights too much with projectors, which causes the issues some of us are reporting.

Feel free to post in the thread where Madshi has decided he preferred discussing this. It's open to everyone. Only MadVR fans are posting there (that includes me). It's not a MadVR bashing thread.
__________________
Win11 Pro x64 b23H2
Ryzen 5950X@4.5Ghz 32Gb@3600 Zotac 3090 24Gb 551.33
madVR/LAV/jRiver/MyMovies/CMC
Denon X8500HA>HD Fury VRRoom>TCL 55C805K
Manni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 10:55   #48863  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
that's not what my point is it's the line "as part of NGU".

changing it to NGU sharp and it may help.
Ah yes, that makes sense! I'll change that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LigH View Post
If "inclusive artifact removal" is only used in "NGU Sharp" resampling, then I can't use it for luma upscaling, at most for chroma upscaling only. Too weak GPU, I guess.
You can't do NGU Sharp luma upscaling at all, not even Medium quality? FWIW, "reduce compression artifacts" currently only works for free if you use NGU Sharp in High or Very High quality, but I plan to make it work for Medium, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arrgh View Post
meanwhile, to bridge the gap in time : the side-by-side trick... does it send 2 Full-HD Pictures to the TV, so that in principle the PQ remains the same? Or is there a downscaling involved to 2 half-resolution pictures ?
Yes, it's half resolution, unfortunately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by omarank View Post
This is very useful info added to the OSD. There is one minor thing though. If I use keyboard shortcut to disable the 3DLUT, the OSD still lists it indicating an active 3DLUT.
Ok, thanks, will get that fixed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
I can't change the chroma upscaler just for 4K60p content because I already have profiles according to resolution.
It should still be possible. If your profiles already include the chroma upscaling tab, then simple prepend another "if (srcWidth > 3000) and (fps > 40) "extraLowQualitySettings"" before all the other "if"s. If you don't have the chroma upscaling tab in your profiles yet, you can create another profile set just for chroma upscaling, in addition to the profiles you already have. madVR supports multiple different profile groups in each "folder".
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 11:02   #48864  |  Link
Manni
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
It should still be possible. If your profiles already include the chroma upscaling tab, then simple prepend another "if (srcWidth > 3000) and (fps > 40) "extraLowQualitySettings"" before all the other "if"s. If you don't have the chroma upscaling tab in your profiles yet, you can create another profile set just for chroma upscaling, in addition to the profiles you already have. madVR supports multiple different profile groups in each "folder".
This is brilliant, thanks! I just added a test with fps > 30 for a UHD_LOW profile before testing for my UHD profile and that works great.
__________________
Win11 Pro x64 b23H2
Ryzen 5950X@4.5Ghz 32Gb@3600 Zotac 3090 24Gb 551.33
madVR/LAV/jRiver/MyMovies/CMC
Denon X8500HA>HD Fury VRRoom>TCL 55C805K
Manni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 11:05   #48865  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,140
I'd still recommend to add a check for resolution in addition to "fps > 30", too, otherwise playing 1080p60 content will also trigger the UHD_LOW profile. Also, I'd at least use "fps > 31", because "fps" is a floating point variable, and there might be a movie which is flagged as 30.000000000001fps.
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 11:12   #48866  |  Link
Siso
Soul Seeker
 
Siso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 711
Madshi, regarding the 3DLUT, is it possible to shorten or make the 3DLUT name show in 2 rows, Displaycal generates pretty long 3DLUT names in example - madVR 2017-10-26 18-51 S XYZLUT.Rec709.bb0.8,2.4Gawt65.3dlut

It takes a lot of space in the OSD...
Siso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 11:13   #48867  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,140
You can manually rename the 3dlut file name...
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 11:27   #48868  |  Link
Manni
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I'd still recommend to add a check for resolution in addition to "fps > 30", too, otherwise playing 1080p60 content will also trigger the UHD_LOW profile. Also, I'd at least use "fps > 31", because "fps" is a floating point variable, and there might be a movie which is flagged as 30.000000000001fps.
As I said, there's a test for UHD resolution already, I only added a specific profile for a less demanding chroma algo when the UHD content is above 30p:

if (3D) "3D"
else if (srcWidth <= 720) and (srcHeight <= 576) "SD"
else if (srcWidth <= 1280) and (srcHeight <= 720) "HD"
else if (srcWidth <= 1920) and (srcHeight <= 1080) "FHD"
else if (srcWidth <= 3840) and (srcHeight <= 2160) and (fps > 30) "UHD_LOW"
else if (srcWidth <= 3840) and (srcHeight <= 2160) "UHD"
else "4K"

I will use 31 though, thanks for the FP info.
__________________
Win11 Pro x64 b23H2
Ryzen 5950X@4.5Ghz 32Gb@3600 Zotac 3090 24Gb 551.33
madVR/LAV/jRiver/MyMovies/CMC
Denon X8500HA>HD Fury VRRoom>TCL 55C805K

Last edited by Manni; 6th February 2018 at 11:32.
Manni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 11:54   #48869  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 4,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siso View Post
Madshi, regarding the 3DLUT, is it possible to shorten or make the 3DLUT name show in 2 rows, Displaycal generates pretty long 3DLUT names in example - madVR 2017-10-26 18-51 S XYZLUT.Rec709.bb0.8,2.4Gawt65.3dlut

It takes a lot of space in the OSD...
No! Now that we have the 3DLUT name in the OSD we don't want to mess with it, there can be no confusion if it displays the exact name. As madshi said, rename your 3DLUT.
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 12:48   #48870  |  Link
Axelpowa
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
We chose this movie because it's one of the titles that actually have content near 4000nits. You can try other titles with content significantly above 2000nits, such as Batman vs Superman and you'll see such issues as well. Mad Max is not "worse", it's a demanding title to do right on a projector.

If you only watch films with content up to 1100nits, MadVR's conversion does a great job and there is very little to say, it's near perfect. Initially I had watched a few 1100nits films and I thought MadVR did a fantastic job (and I said so). It significantly improves the low end of the content for these titles. It's only when I started watching movies with more content in the highlights that I noticed some issues.

MadVR's conversion simply compresses highlights too much with projectors, which causes the issues some of us are reporting.

Feel free to post in the thread where Madshi has decided he preferred discussing this. It's open to everyone. Only MadVR fans are posting there (that includes me). It's not a MadVR bashing thread.

Hi Manni!

I know its not a bashing thread, I just dont have account in avsforums. Also I dont have the knowledge to speak about the issues, so cant contribute much besides a personal opinion if I like what I see although it could be wrong displayed.

Everywhere I read about HDR the Mad Max movie comes into topic as being a pain in the ass for proyectors, therefore my connents.

I had the hope you and Madshi could work together because this software is incredible and could get even better. Sad it's not happening.

Sorry for my english, I'm from Spain.

Regards!
Axelpowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 12:56   #48871  |  Link
LigH
German doom9/Gleitz SuMo
 
LigH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Germany, rural Altmark
Posts: 6,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
You can't do NGU Sharp luma upscaling at all, not even Medium quality?
No, the video output gets really choppy; GTS 450 is a "compromise chipset", medium bandwidth.
__________________

New German Gleitz board
MediaFire: x264 | x265 | VPx | AOM | Xvid
LigH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 13:52   #48872  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlar42 View Post
??? I beg to differ, I've tried both yadif and weston and with 1080i soccer matches the experience was nowhere near hardware deinterlacing.
so the chroma is not displayed a tthe wrong posistion when you used nvidia DXVA deinterlancing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LigH View Post
No, the video output gets really choppy; GTS 450 is a "compromise chipset", medium bandwidth.
you cna use control+j to the see renderstats.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 14:00   #48873  |  Link
Siso
Soul Seeker
 
Siso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
No! Now that we have the 3DLUT name in the OSD we don't want to mess with it, there can be no confusion if it displays the exact name. As madshi said, rename your 3DLUT.
I did, lol
Siso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 14:21   #48874  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 896
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlar42 View Post
??? I beg to differ, I've tried both yadif and weston and with 1080i soccer matches the experience was nowhere near hardware deinterlacing.
I concur for HD (for SD though, YADIF is better than my NVIDIA which shows awful artifacts).
Also, those with weak CPUs sometimes can't even use YADIF on HD (it's too much for mine), and for those with weak graphics subsystem like Intel, DXVA11 can bring a much needed performance improvement Vs copy-back or software decoding needed for YADIF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
so the chroma is not displayed a tthe wrong posistion when you used nvidia DXVA deinterlancing?
The loss of quality must be less noticeable than the loss of quality due to YADIF.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 22H2, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters/ReClock/madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400 oc'd, GeForce 1050 Ti 536.40

Last edited by el Filou; 6th February 2018 at 14:24.
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 15:38   #48875  |  Link
chros
Registered User
 
chros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
As madshi said, rename your 3DLUT.
Even better if you create a hard link for it (so you will also have the original filename).
__________________
Ryzen 5 2600,Asus Prime b450-Plus,16GB,MSI GTX 1060 Gaming X 6GB(v398.18),Win10 LTSC 1809,MPC-BEx64+LAV+MadVR,Yamaha RX-A870,LG OLED77G2(2160p@23/24/25/29/30/50/59/60Hz) | madvr config
chros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 17:22   #48876  |  Link
LigH
German doom9/Gleitz SuMo
 
LigH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Germany, rural Altmark
Posts: 6,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
you can use control+j to the see renderstats.
A few screenshots, playing a H.264 video 640×480 in a maximized window on a 1920×1200 desktop, Windows 7:

both upscalers set to DXVA (the occasional drops are from stopping and starting the video several times)
both upscalers set to NGU Sharp (medium / madVR decides; constant drops)
GPU-Z report
__________________

New German Gleitz board
MediaFire: x264 | x265 | VPx | AOM | Xvid
LigH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 18:44   #48877  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by LigH View Post
A few screenshots, playing a H.264 video 640×480 in a maximized window on a 1920×1200 desktop, Windows 7:

both upscalers set to DXVA (the occasional drops are from stopping and starting the video several times)
both upscalers set to NGU Sharp (medium / madVR decides; constant drops)
GPU-Z report
maybe NGU sharp high x2 will work and you don't need NGU for chroma to get RCA running.
give bicubic 60 a try for chroma nearly everything is better than DXVA when using a nvidia and there current driver...

you can add a folder named "ShowRenderSteps" in the madVR folder to get a better look at the rendertimes.

and generally set the nvidia power settings to adaptive. optimal is buggy and a lot of people get major problem with it when using madVR.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 19:23   #48878  |  Link
Clown shoes
King of the Jungle
 
Clown shoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Shoreditch, London
Posts: 429
Afternoon all. Couple of quick questions for the more learned of you around here

If I have a 4k panel that is 60hz is it generally considered best practice to enter just 2160p60 under display modes in Madvr and nothing else?

Second question is about using HDR luts. I produced a 3D lut with Displaycal using the Madvr BT2020 template. It loads fine in Madvr but underneath there are options for sending metadata to my display that defaults to DCI-P3. I'm presuming that I change this to BT2020 and enter the maximum nits of my display, which in my case is 430. Does that sound about right.

Oh and I updated to the latest Madvr but despite it clearly saying 0.92.12 in the bottom left hand corner, I can't for the life of me see any of the new options that were mentioned in the changelog. Am I blind? Or stupid?.... Or both? lol
Clown shoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 20:41   #48879  |  Link
LigH
German doom9/Gleitz SuMo
 
LigH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Germany, rural Altmark
Posts: 6,752
I read another message which may have been deleted in the meantime...

Yes, I was confused about a little detail as well: Despite setting up medium quality, render stats display "high".

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
and generally set the nvidia power settings to adaptive. optimal is buggy and a lot of people get major problem with it when using madVR.
Where do I do that? I do not have a mobile PC. This GPU is my only one, and I am not aware of energy saving features yet...
__________________

New German Gleitz board
MediaFire: x264 | x265 | VPx | AOM | Xvid

Last edited by LigH; 6th February 2018 at 20:49.
LigH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 20:47   #48880  |  Link
cork_OS
Registered User
 
cork_OS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by LigH View Post
I read another message which may have been deleted in the meantime...

Yes, I was confused about a little detail as well: Despite setting up medium quality, render stats display "high".
Enabling RCA medium forces NGU high quality.
__________________
I'm infected with poor sources.
cork_OS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.