Toshiba 210e and SVCDs - Page 2

rocket_robot · 1st November 2001, 09:20

Cayne: I believe that it does. If I use CCE to encode a regular avi file it can run at nearly 100% cpu on both. I have had a look in Task manager under performance and the only process running is cctsp.exe at 98% (both cpus). It is only when I use Avisynth the performance drops.

Kryzzle · 3rd November 2001, 20:18

Guys,

there's a hell of a discussion thread on http://www.dvdboard.de - unfortunately, it's completely german.

Let me summarize what we have learnt from several german users and the german Toshiba support:

a) FW combinations of up to 1.4/1.6 are able to flawlessly play SVCDs; rumours have been told that the latest FW of 1.4/2.1 plays SVCDs without A/V delays, but this needs to be tested in detail.
b) The player is sensitive to the quality of the CD Writer - best results have been found using Teac CD-W512EB at max. 8x speed on CD-R!
If you burn at higher speeds, the playback will be stuttering... (due to bad drive error correction)
c) For up-/downgrading the FW of the 210E, it has to be shipped to Toshiba service - FW update is not possible via CD, but only by using some special cables (JTAG suspected).
d) Decoder board is available in two different hardware versions, which can be shown by the letter after the TB: text.

So, if you can get some player with FW below or equal 1.4/1.6, you're lucky (like I am ;-)) - otherwise: don't waste any time, return to dealer.

rocket_robot · 3rd November 2001, 20:36

Thanks Kryzzle, Any change you can let us know exactly how you burn your SVCDs. BBMPEG setting etc... Do you use nero , do you downsample the 48-~>44.1 sound. And the make of the disks you use.

I have tried everything, but if your player is the same as mine and yours works, then I must be doing something wrong. Just can't figure out what it is.

Cheers,

Rocket.

Kryzzle · 3rd November 2001, 20:51

First, give me your firmware revisions.
Turn on player, press Zoom, 6, 0, 6, Zoom on remote control.
The device will display the boot and main fw revision numbers.
Please post them so I can tell you whether or not it's worth to further evaluate your problem...

Fats Minnesota · 3rd November 2001, 21:52

Ok Kryzzle, my versions are 1.4/1.9 and the text after tb: is x.
Any ideas

Kryzzle · 3rd November 2001, 22:09

Sorry pal, but there's no solution to this other than muxing the stream with an extra time offset - this is a problem of your specific fw revision only.
Since the SD210E in general is a really good device (good sound, very good picture), you should try to convince your dealer to provide you with a downgrade to 1.3/1.4 or upgrade to 1.4/2.1, which is told to be working fine.

rocket_robot · 4th November 2001, 12:54

1.4 / 1.6 TB:X. Any ideas. Also do you include subtitles etc...

Kryzzle · 4th November 2001, 18:36

@rocket_robot:
1.4/1.6 is reported to be working. Try using a TEAC CD writer and do not exceed 8x burning speed. Should work fine with most CD medias.

rocket_robot · 5th November 2001, 10:17

Thanks again, I don't suppose you know what is so special about a TEAC cd writer. As I would prefer to shop around and get one with the same feature. I have never had any trouble in the past with my writer. Also what make TEAC writer should I get any, any one in particular?

Ruben · 6th November 2001, 08:45

i have 1.3 / 1.4 firmware version at my sd 210
no problems with audio/video delay
but no svcd subtitels possible (but permanent subs are ok)

Ruben

rocket_robot · 6th November 2001, 10:42

Ruben, What cd writer do you have? TEAC?

Has anyone else had any problems because of the make of their cd writer? It just seems a bit odd. It probably is the source of the problem, but why?

I have a yamaha SCSI CDR4416SX.

Cheers to eveyone so far.

Ruben · 6th November 2001, 12:13

i have a teac cdr55s with the latest firmware.
i burn with 4x speed.
No problems so far.
I use platinum 80Min and 90Min CDR

Ruben

Kryzzle · 11th November 2001, 20:52

@rocket_robot:

Looks like the error correction of the SD210E's DVD drive is not one of the best...
I guess there are a lot of parameters that could have impact on the readability of a CD-R during the burning process of the disc - like laser pulse timing, rotation speed stability, laser pulse power etc.

Have you tried using a Teac drive yet?

Nasdero · 22nd February 2002, 18:39

Hi,

I got this SD210E also, I called yesterday Toshiba germany and they told me an Address in Hanover, I should send it to this company, they will update the firmware and then should be everything ok with the sound and the SVCDs. It's for free, cause I got still waranty.

Btw the new Versions are 1.4/2.2 .

Kind regards,
Nasdero

gerti67 · 22nd February 2002, 19:03

Hi Nasdero,

thanx for updating all the old Toshiba related threads with your info about the new firmware that is supposed to solve the sync-issue.

I and sure all the others that are impacted by this problem really appreciate this.

Thanx a lot,
Gerti

Nasdero · 5th March 2002, 11:32

Hi folks,

so I'll get my Toshiba SD210E back tomorrow, but there is a prob, cause I've too go to the hospital for about 4 days, so I can make a report earlyest at saturday or sunday, but be sure, I'll inform you!

Kind regards,

Nasdero

gerti67 · 5th March 2002, 12:00

Hi Nasdero,

first, good luck with the hospital thing. And a second one, I heard from the german dvdboard that this firmware does not fix the sync issues.

It is said from Toshiba support that there will be another version (2.3) at the end of march that should definitively fix this issue and that the 2.2 FW is only for compatibility issues with some DVDs.

That's the reason I did not send in my player yet - I think I will wait till the end of march then.

But if you're back on track it would be nice to hear from you again with a report on that - as they didn't say anything about using D2S on the dvdboard. So, perhaps still a little chance that it might work.

Greetings,
Gerti

Nasdero · 8th March 2002, 19:53

Yo I'm still alive

So the palyer is also still alive, but I guess the Sync is better, but not ok, I'm writing an Email to Toshiba right now, I did spend some money for the shipping and 1.5 weeks without my SD210E and the problem is still there, I'll inform you what they will answer.

Greetings,
Nasdero

Nasdero · 11th March 2002, 20:05

Sehr geehrter Herr *****,

Nach Rücksprache mit dem zuständigen Productmanager habe ich nun erfahren das, das Problem bereits nach Japan weitergeleitet wurde und man sich dort darum kümmert.

Vorraussichtlich Ende März wird eine neue Firmware (V2.3) für den SD210E erhältlich sein.

Wir bedauern die Umstände und Probleme die Sie mit diesem DVD-Player haben sehr und hoffen Sie haben noch etwas Geduld.

Um wieder Probleme und Verärgerungen zu vermeiden wird die neue Firmware wenn Sie denn erhältlich ist erst einmal genau auf die SVCD-tauglichkeit überprüft.

Bitte haben Sie noch etwas Geduld, ich schreibe Sie wieder an sobald ich mehr zu diesem Thema weiß.

Mit freundlichen Grüssen

SB Konzept GmbH

Oliver Eigenbrodt

---------------------------------
That's means, that the guys in Japan are working on that problem, they wanna test the compatibility with the SVCDs if the new Firmware 2.3 is out and then they wanna inform me by mail. And that means also, that I'll inform you guys.

Greetings,
****** oh sorry, Nasdero

Sekatom · 12th March 2002, 14:49

I have found that some DVD players have problems with MPEG PS muxed with bbMPEG.
I noticed the same desyncs you write about on Philips DVD710.
I have worked on it and there are my conclusions:
1) It does not make sense to mux audio and video files with audio delay increased for specific player, 'cause there will be desync on another player (try with WinDVD - isn't it?)
2) The best you can do having player with some issues (maybe Toshiba that you write) is to demux bbMPEG_Muxed_FileXX using bbdmux or TMPGEnc MPEG Tools' demuxer and mux again using TMPGEnc muxer.
Since then audio and video will be synced.
VCDXImager needs some changes in XML script files, but on my players without these changes chapters work OK.

3rd November 2001, 20:18	#22 \| Link
Kryzzle Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 20	Toshiba SD-210E Guys, there's a hell of a discussion thread on http://www.dvdboard.de - unfortunately, it's completely german. Let me summarize what we have learnt from several german users and the german Toshiba support: a) FW combinations of up to 1.4/1.6 are able to flawlessly play SVCDs; rumours have been told that the latest FW of 1.4/2.1 plays SVCDs without A/V delays, but this needs to be tested in detail. b) The player is sensitive to the quality of the CD Writer - best results have been found using Teac CD-W512EB at max. 8x speed on CD-R! If you burn at higher speeds, the playback will be stuttering... (due to bad drive error correction) c) For up-/downgrading the FW of the 210E, it has to be shipped to Toshiba service - FW update is not possible via CD, but only by using some special cables (JTAG suspected). d) Decoder board is available in two different hardware versions, which can be shown by the letter after the TB: text. So, if you can get some player with FW below or equal 1.4/1.6, you're lucky (like I am ;-)) - otherwise: don't waste any time, return to dealer.

6th November 2001, 08:45	#30 \| Link
Ruben Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 11	sd210 is working i have 1.3 / 1.4 firmware version at my sd 210 no problems with audio/video delay but no svcd subtitels possible (but permanent subs are ok) Ruben

6th November 2001, 12:13	#32 \| Link
Ruben Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 11	sd210 av delay i have a teac cdr55s with the latest firmware. i burn with 4x speed. No problems so far. I use platinum 80Min and 90Min CDR Ruben

22nd February 2002, 19:03	#35 \| Link
gerti67 Reloaded! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The Matrix Posts: 824	Hi Nasdero, thanx for updating all the old Toshiba related threads with your info about the new firmware that is supposed to solve the sync-issue. I and sure all the others that are impacted by this problem really appreciate this. Thanx a lot, Gerti __________________ "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." - Robert Wilensky, University of California, 1997

5th March 2002, 12:00	#37 \| Link
gerti67 Reloaded! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The Matrix Posts: 824	Hi Nasdero, first, good luck with the hospital thing. And a second one, I heard from the german dvdboard that this firmware does not fix the sync issues. It is said from Toshiba support that there will be another version (2.3) at the end of march that should definitively fix this issue and that the 2.2 FW is only for compatibility issues with some DVDs. That's the reason I did not send in my player yet - I think I will wait till the end of march then. But if you're back on track it would be nice to hear from you again with a report on that - as they didn't say anything about using D2S on the dvdboard. So, perhaps still a little chance that it might work. Greetings, Gerti __________________ "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." - Robert Wilensky, University of California, 1997 Last edited by gerti67; 5th March 2002 at 14:00.

1st November 2001, 09:20	#21 \| Link
rocket_robot Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 16	Cayne: I believe that it does. If I use CCE to encode a regular avi file it can run at nearly 100% cpu on both. I have had a look in Task manager under performance and the only process running is cctsp.exe at 98% (both cpus). It is only when I use Avisynth the performance drops.

3rd November 2001, 20:36	#23 \| Link
rocket_robot Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 16	Thanks Kryzzle, Any change you can let us know exactly how you burn your SVCDs. BBMPEG setting etc... Do you use nero , do you downsample the 48-~>44.1 sound. And the make of the disks you use. I have tried everything, but if your player is the same as mine and yours works, then I must be doing something wrong. Just can't figure out what it is. Cheers, Rocket.

3rd November 2001, 20:51	#24 \| Link
Kryzzle Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 20	First, give me your firmware revisions. Turn on player, press Zoom, 6, 0, 6, Zoom on remote control. The device will display the boot and main fw revision numbers. Please post them so I can tell you whether or not it's worth to further evaluate your problem...

3rd November 2001, 21:52	#25 \| Link
Fats Minnesota Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 9	Ok Kryzzle, my versions are 1.4/1.9 and the text after tb: is x. Any ideas

3rd November 2001, 22:09	#26 \| Link
Kryzzle Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 20	Sorry pal, but there's no solution to this other than muxing the stream with an extra time offset - this is a problem of your specific fw revision only. Since the SD210E in general is a really good device (good sound, very good picture), you should try to convince your dealer to provide you with a downgrade to 1.3/1.4 or upgrade to 1.4/2.1, which is told to be working fine.

4th November 2001, 12:54	#27 \| Link
rocket_robot Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 16	1.4 / 1.6 TB:X. Any ideas. Also do you include subtitles etc...

4th November 2001, 18:36	#28 \| Link
Kryzzle Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 20	@rocket_robot: 1.4/1.6 is reported to be working. Try using a TEAC CD writer and do not exceed 8x burning speed. Should work fine with most CD medias.

5th November 2001, 10:17	#29 \| Link
rocket_robot Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 16	Thanks again, I don't suppose you know what is so special about a TEAC cd writer. As I would prefer to shop around and get one with the same feature. I have never had any trouble in the past with my writer. Also what make TEAC writer should I get any, any one in particular?

6th November 2001, 10:42	#31 \| Link
rocket_robot Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 16	Ruben, What cd writer do you have? TEAC? Has anyone else had any problems because of the make of their cd writer? It just seems a bit odd. It probably is the source of the problem, but why? I have a yamaha SCSI CDR4416SX. Cheers to eveyone so far.

11th November 2001, 20:52	#33 \| Link
Kryzzle Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 20	@rocket_robot: Looks like the error correction of the SD210E's DVD drive is not one of the best... I guess there are a lot of parameters that could have impact on the readability of a CD-R during the burning process of the disc - like laser pulse timing, rotation speed stability, laser pulse power etc. Have you tried using a Teac drive yet?

22nd February 2002, 18:39	#34 \| Link
Nasdero Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 9	Hi, I got this SD210E also, I called yesterday Toshiba germany and they told me an Address in Hanover, I should send it to this company, they will update the firmware and then should be everything ok with the sound and the SVCDs. It's for free, cause I got still waranty. Btw the new Versions are 1.4/2.2 . Kind regards, Nasdero

5th March 2002, 11:32	#36 \| Link
Nasdero Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 9	Hi folks, so I'll get my Toshiba SD210E back tomorrow, but there is a prob, cause I've too go to the hospital for about 4 days, so I can make a report earlyest at saturday or sunday, but be sure, I'll inform you! Kind regards, Nasdero

8th March 2002, 19:53	#38 \| Link
Nasdero Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 9	Yo I'm still alive So the palyer is also still alive, but I guess the Sync is better, but not ok, I'm writing an Email to Toshiba right now, I did spend some money for the shipping and 1.5 weeks without my SD210E and the problem is still there, I'll inform you what they will answer. Greetings, Nasdero

11th March 2002, 20:05	#39 \| Link
Nasdero Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 9	Sehr geehrter Herr ***, Nach Rücksprache mit dem zuständigen Productmanager habe ich nun erfahren das, das Problem bereits nach Japan weitergeleitet wurde und man sich dort darum kümmert. Vorraussichtlich Ende März wird eine neue Firmware (V2.3) für den SD210E erhältlich sein. Wir bedauern die Umstände und Probleme die Sie mit diesem DVD-Player haben sehr und hoffen Sie haben noch etwas Geduld. Um wieder Probleme und Verärgerungen zu vermeiden wird die neue Firmware wenn Sie denn erhältlich ist erst einmal genau auf die SVCD-tauglichkeit überprüft. Bitte haben Sie noch etwas Geduld, ich schreibe Sie wieder an sobald ich mehr zu diesem Thema weiß. Mit freundlichen Grüssen SB Konzept GmbH Oliver Eigenbrodt --------------------------------- That's means, that the guys in Japan are working on that problem, they wanna test the compatibility with the SVCDs if the new Firmware 2.3 is out and then they wanna inform me by mail. And that means also, that I'll inform you guys. Greetings, **** oh sorry, Nasdero

12th March 2002, 14:49	#40 \| Link
Sekatom Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 19	Audio/Video desync I have found that some DVD players have problems with MPEG PS muxed with bbMPEG. I noticed the same desyncs you write about on Philips DVD710. I have worked on it and there are my conclusions: 1) It does not make sense to mux audio and video files with audio delay increased for specific player, 'cause there will be desync on another player (try with WinDVD - isn't it?) 2) The best you can do having player with some issues (maybe Toshiba that you write) is to demux bbMPEG_Muxed_FileXX using bbdmux or TMPGEnc MPEG Tools' demuxer and mux again using TMPGEnc muxer. Since then audio and video will be synced. VCDXImager needs some changes in XML script files, but on my players without these changes chapters work OK.

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