Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 5th March 2014, 19:11   #24301  |  Link
pirlouy
_
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: France
Posts: 692
Congratulations on dithering options design. You made it comprehensible for casual users.
pirlouy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2014, 19:36   #24302  |  Link
James Freeman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 919
Thank You !!!

v0.87.5 is a big step up in madVR's image quality.

Considering we only had random dithering which is clearly visible even in 8bit,
compared to any of the new options which are barely visible to invisible.




P.S
Bug #167 "dithering produced dithering noise on pure black areas" still exists.
This bug was only apparent when 3DLUT or yCMS where active, unlike the dithered Whites (even without 3DLUT) with ATI card which is a different (real) bug altogether.

@6233638
Might I add that its not actually a bug, its a side effect of the calibration (0.000015746 instead or pure 0.0000000000 for black).
It can be solved by moving the blacks to -1 in madVR.
__________________
System: i7 3770K, GTX660, Win7 64bit, Panasonic ST60, Dell U2410.

Last edited by James Freeman; 5th March 2014 at 19:51.
James Freeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2014, 19:52   #24303  |  Link
6233638
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,019
Wow, looks like a lot of bug fixes in this build.

Does this build sync dithering to the video framerate now to prevent flickering? I didn't see it mentioned in the release notes.

I know that you're not taking feature requests, but would it be possible to have a keyboard shortcut toggle "disable GPU gamma ramps" ?
Now that I can use the feature to bypass the display LUT (or not) in overlay mode, it would be quite useful to have.
6233638 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2014, 19:52   #24304  |  Link
flashmozzg
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 77
madshi
Is DC done by dx9<->dx10/11 interop? If so, how high overhead is?
Sorry, if it has already been answered.
flashmozzg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2014, 19:56   #24305  |  Link
mark0077
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,106
thanks madshi
mark0077 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2014, 20:01   #24306  |  Link
Soukyuu
Registered User
 
Soukyuu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by flashmozzg View Post
madshi
Is DC done by dx9<->dx10/11 interop? If so, how high overhead is?
Sorry, if it has already been answered.
I don't think it is, considering DC options require a DX11 card.
When running on older cards, it just silently falls back to ordered dither, afaik.
__________________
AMD Phenom II X4 970BE | 12GB DDR3 | nVidia 260GTX | Arch Linux / Windows 10 x64 Pro (w/ calling home shut up)
Soukyuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2014, 20:13   #24307  |  Link
annovif
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Italy
Posts: 41
Madshi, can i know why do you prefer 7xxx series over the new series?

THX-UltraII can i know how much NNedi32 chroma upscaling neurons can you set, without dropped frames, with your r8? And with image doubling? Naturally i am talking about bluray 1080 24p material. Thank you
annovif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2014, 20:15   #24308  |  Link
Gagorian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by annovif View Post
Madshi, can i know why do you prefer 7xxx series over the new series?

THX-UltraII can i know how much NNedi32 chroma upscaling neurons can you set, without dropped frames, with your r8? And with image doubling? Naturally i am talking about bluray 1080 24p material. Thank you
The 'new' cards i.e. r7 250x, r7 260(x), r7 265, r9 270(x) and r9 280(x) are rebranded 7xxx series GPU's.

Personally I see the r9 270 as the sweet spot for HTPC usage, but opinions might differ. The r9 270 can easily run Jinc3 AR for scaling, Error Diffusion and Debanding with maximum quality settings. If you want NNEDI32 doubling combined with those, you might need a more powerful GPU (unless madshi/AMD manages to reduce OpenCL interop costs ).

Last edited by Gagorian; 5th March 2014 at 20:25.
Gagorian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2014, 20:21   #24309  |  Link
flashmozzg
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soukyuu View Post
I don't think it is, considering DC options require a DX11 card.
When running on older cards, it just silently falls back to ordered dither, afaik.
Well, it just that madvr is dx9 and for openCL dx9 interop was used.
flashmozzg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2014, 20:25   #24310  |  Link
Shiandow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I'm not 100% sure about the exact cause of the blinking problem, either. I *think* it's just the irregular interval at which the dithering pattern changes, but I'm not totally sure...
I just succeeded in recreating the 'blinking' effect by just replacing the video with noise. As far as I can tell it is a limitation of the screen. In my case I suspect my screen takes too long to get to full brightness so the frame that is shown longer gets brighter. In theory this shouldn't happen with screens with particularly low latency, like projectors or CRTs. Smooth motion should also help, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Shiandow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2014, 20:33   #24311  |  Link
DigitalLF
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
This question is asked a lot, and there's no simple answer. It all depends on which algorithms you want to use, which input/output resolutions need to be supported and which movie framerate and display refresh rate etc. Just as an example: If you need support for 60p, the GPU has to be almost 2.5x as fast as it would have to be if you limited yourself to 24p. So that shows clearly how much all of this depends on your exact requirements.

AMD and NVidia have their own set of advantages and disadvantages, so I can't give a clear recommendation for either one, either. If you decide to get something from AMD, you should definitely get a 7xxx series GPU.
well the new projector is a Sony VPL-VW500ES 4k projector.. so for me to get the best picture.. what card should i use?

would i still get a 7xxx or should i get a 280x/290/290x?

most source material is 1080p24 so i honest don't know what i should buy.. i will spend alot of time testing everything out later on but my knowledge around it all is very limited so i will be back i will get it ISF calibrated and i will probably use some filters and pre/post processing...
__________________
Gigabyte G1.Sniper Z87, I7 4770K (3.5ghz), Gigabyte Radeon 280x, Win8.1 x64, ATI 15.7.1, MPC-HC BE 1.4.6 1478, MadVR v0.90.21, LAV Filters 0.68.1,
XySubFilter 3.1.0.746
DigitalLF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2014, 21:09   #24312  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
Kinda strange, it seems like randomly that 120fps file huhn posted wants to playback @ double speed in FSE + Smooth Motion (CTRL+E a few times in FSE with MPC-HC), but only when using a 60hz refresh rate. Probably the same thing causing iSunrise's issue.
i can reproduce this with 87.5 and older version.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2014, 21:23   #24313  |  Link
seiyafan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 162
I will test a R9 290x later to see what's the top of the line AMD card can do with MadVR.

Meanwhile can someone with Titan/Titan Black/780Ti put up some numbers too?
seiyafan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2014, 21:27   #24314  |  Link
leeperry
Kid for Today
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,477
w00t new build,

Quote:
Originally Posted by QBhd View Post
I was wondering if any of this info can or should be used in the device calibration settings for gamma
I don't think you can trust what its EDID says due to the panel lottery and the white point is prolly wrong as I would guess that you didn't run a proper calibration, I would measure them with a sensor.

One thing you could do is input those figures in this script and if you're lucky the gamut coordinates wouldn't be too far off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalLF View Post
would i still get a 7xxx or should i get a 280x/290/290x?
Two things come into play IMHO:

1) It's often better to be one generation late with computer parts, much higher bang/bucks most of the time and due to Moore's law improvements aren't quite giant steps anymore.

2) the new line-up is mostly rebranded chips, I believe they only bring Mantle to the table and AMD is well aware that they kill nvidia in raw OpenCL performance so street prices are pretty high now.

I see 2GB 7870's sold for 99€ shipped around here and 3GB 7950's for 125€, these boards will make your day in mVR at 1080p. No idea about 2160p but if you wanna crank 64x NNEDI, you will need something faster than a 7950 IMHO.

Last edited by leeperry; 6th March 2014 at 00:55.
leeperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2014, 22:02   #24315  |  Link
jaju123
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
w00t new build,


I don't think you can trust what its EDID says due to the panel lottery and the white point is prolly wrong as I would guess that you didn't run a proper calibration, I would measure them with a sensor.

One thing you could do is input those figures in this script and if you're lucky the gamut coordinates wouldn't be too far off.



Two things come into play IMHO:

1) It's often better to be one generation late with computer parts, much higher bang/bucks most of the time and due to Moore's law improvements aren't quite giant steps anymore.

2) the new line-up is mostly rebranded chips, I believe they only bring Mantle to the table and AMD is well aware that they kill nvidia in raw OpenCL performance so street prices are pretty high now.

I see 2GB 7870's sold for 99€ shipped around here and 3GB 7950's for 125€, these boards will make your day in mVR at 1080p. No idea about 2160p but if you wanna crank 64x NNEDI, you will need something faster a 7950 IMHO.
I have 2x AMD R9 290s and I can't even use NNEDI doubling Too many dropped frames...
jaju123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2014, 22:05   #24316  |  Link
JonnyRedHed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Wales
Posts: 37
Hello,

A long time lurker, since the first post. I try and follow the thread best I can but am not very technical.


I've just updated to v0.87.5 and tried image doubling default values and get a mostly black screen when on full screen, with some reds and blues showing.



I read the line in the changelog:
* error diffusion now uses DirectCompute (DX11 GPU needed) instead of OpenCL

Does this mean NNEDI3 image doubling now works with Nvidia gpus. Mine is a GTX 670

Win7 x64
Zoom Player 8.7 b33
Lav filters 0.61 (DXVA2 - native)
NV GTX 670 (drivers 331.82)
Plasma 50 inch via HDMI

Playing 99.9% MKV 1080p and 720p TV shows/movies but was just trying the image doubling out for the first time on a 720x476 mkv (Star Trek Voyager)

Usually use:

Chroma Jinc 4 (AR)
Image upscaling Jinc 4 (AR + SLL)
Image downscaling Catmull-Rom

I did change image upscaling to Lanczos AR as Madshi suggested some pages back when NNEDI3 was introduced.


Do I have to wait until Nvidia fix something in the drivers, or do I need to change some MadVR settings in this new release to get image doubling to work. Seems what ever I do, once I go full screen its just black with some reds and blues showing. Then crashes zoom player.


Could I ask for guidance here please.

Last edited by JonnyRedHed; 5th March 2014 at 22:13.
JonnyRedHed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2014, 22:07   #24317  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
image doubling is buggy with newer nvdia driver you have to use older ones or wait for a fix
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2014, 22:10   #24318  |  Link
laverdure
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyRedHed View Post
Hello,

A long time lurker, since the first post. I try and follow the thread best I can but am not very technical.


I've just updated to v0.87.5 and tried image doubling default values and get a mostly black screen when on full screen, with some reds and blues showing.



I read the line in the changelog:
* error diffusion now uses DirectCompute (DX11 GPU needed) instead of OpenCL

Does this mean NNEDI3 image doubling now works with Nvidia gpus. Mine is a GTX 670

Win7 x64
Zoom Player 8.7 b33
Lav filters 0.61
NV GTX 670 (drivers 331.82)
Plasma 50 inch via HDMI

Playing 99.9% MKV 1080p and 720p TV shows/movies but was just trying the image doubling out for the first time on a 720x476 mkv (Star Trek Voyager)

Usually use:

Chroma Jinc 4 (AR)
Image upscaling Jinc 4 (AR + SLL)
Image downscaling Catmull-Rom

I did change image upscaling to Lanczos AR as Madshi suggested some pages back when NNEDI3 was introduced.


Do I have to wait until Nvidia fix something in the drivers, or do I need to change some MadVR settings in this new release to get image doubling to work. Seems what ever I do, once I go full screen its just black with some reds and blues showing. Then crashes zoom player.


Could I ask for guidance here please.
NEEDI doubling works with nVidia with driver 327.23 and below. Downgrade you nVidia drivers for NEEDI.
Error diffusion is fine on any nVidia driver
laverdure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2014, 22:12   #24319  |  Link
JarrettH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 860
I forget what the answer to this is, but how does LAV's dithering options interact with madvr's? Thanks for the new release
JarrettH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2014, 22:14   #24320  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 10,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
I forget what the answer to this is, but how does LAV's dithering options interact with madvr's? Thanks for the new release
It doesn't, unless you screwed up LAVs configuration.

In general it won't need to dither anything when madVR is used, as long as you didn't disable any output formats in LAV.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.