madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Pat357]

Originally Posted by vlatko27

No, the files 1080p HD. I watch HD in 99% of the cases.

Except the sample you posted (!) : it's 1280 x 546 and encoded as HD (BT.709 matrix & primaries).
IMO, this is a bad encoded file.

require me to change the colorspace in madVR to 0-255 which doesn't make sense, as my TV doesn't support full range.

This will "partially" undo the harm done by the bad encoding as MadVR will stretch the 16-235 to 0-255.
This will cause the values outside the 16-235 band to be cut off.

Have you tried playing with the matrix & primaries BT.601, setting source range to full ?

[JarrettH]

Originally Posted by JarrettH

Oooook...

Restored MS DVD Navigator, AnyDVD off (DVD: Copy-Protect Fail...this happened with the next three DVDs I tried)

http://depositfiles.com/files/cb2mxxejt

Restored MS DVD Navigator, AnyDVD on (works)

http://depositfiles.com/files/rkqzgotzq

Menus are kind of hit and miss though.

Were my logs a dud too?

[6233638]

Originally Posted by madshi

madVR v0.84.4 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* fixed: DVD playback often resulted in Macrovision errors
* improved Jinc AR algorithm for clean computer type images/videos
* added support for new subtitle interface (e.g. for future xy-vsfilter build)

Please note that madVR does not (yet?) support an extra input pin for subtitles and DVD menus. So if you want to have DVD menus fully working, you have to use a decoder which blends them on top of the video frames (e.g. LAV Video Decoder).

You have no idea how happy this has made me!

I'm sorry to have been bugging you about this every so often, but I'm glad that it's now fixed!

I can confirm that it's also working on Windows 8 without AnyDVD, at least with the discs that I have tried so far. (I normally have AnyDVD enabled though)

Some discs do just seem to start on a black screen, but selecting a title manually seems to fix that.

I have one or two discs that will crash at the menus, but I don't think that's madVR's fault. (unfortunately this disc also has 25 titles)

Seeking works fine, using the old XP qdvd.dll would cause the player to become unresponsive.

[Pat357]

Originally Posted by 6233638

I can confirm that it's also working on Windows 8 without AnyDVD, at least with the discs that I have tried so far. (I normally have AnyDVD enabled though)

Back on Win8 ? After a few switches from Win7 - Win8 -Win7 -Win8 you seem to become faster at it !

BTW, were these "real physical" discs with copy protection ?

So far, on Win7 we need AnyDVD or similar to view normal commercial disks because of the CP.

[crotecun]

Originally Posted by madshi

madVR v0.84.4 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* fixed: DVD playback often resulted in Macrovision errors
* improved Jinc AR algorithm for clean computer type images/videos
* added support for new subtitle interface (e.g. for future xy-vsfilter build)

Please note that madVR does not (yet?) support an extra input pin for subtitles and DVD menus. So if you want to have DVD menus fully working, you have to use a decoder which blends them on top of the video frames (e.g. LAV Video Decoder).

Yay, for the update!

The scaling algorithms UI bug still exists by the way, just thought I'd give a heads-up.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...09#post1595909

[6233638]

Originally Posted by Pat357

Back on Win8 ? After a few switches from Win7 - Win8 -Win7 -Win8 you seem to become faster at it !

I installed Windows 7 to another drive just for testing DVD playback. (I did go from Windows 7 to the Windows 8 Preview, disliked that enough to go back Windows 7, and then went back to Windows 8 upon its release)

With Start8 installed to bypass most of the Metro UI stuff (I don't like it on a desktop PC, which is why I removed the preview early) and now that DVD playback is working, I haven't experienced any more issues holding me back from using Windows 8 full time now, and it brings a number of useful improvements to the desktop for me.

Originally Posted by Pat357

BTW, were these "real physical" discs with copy protection ?

So far, on Win7 we need AnyDVD or similar to view normal commercial disks because of the CP.

I was testing discs that had been ripped to .iso with AnyDVD (but it was set to not remove copy protection)

Testing physical discs with AnyDVD disabled is giving me:
DVD: Invalid Disc Region, and DVD: Copy-Protect Fail

Enabling AnyDVD allows the discs to play.
Sorry for getting your hopes up.

Looks like the "keep protection" setting only applies to Blu-rays. (I wasn't too concerned about whether or not it removed the protection of DVDs when ripping them)

[ryrynz]

Madshi, Jinc 3 with AR appears to produce a sharper image than Jinc 4 with AR (has always been the case) The sharpness bar graph might need revision.
Thanks for the new version BTW, I like the new AR algorithm.

[dukey]

There was a reason effort was put into making an open source DVD navigator ............

[madshi]

Originally Posted by JarrettH

Were my logs a dud too?

They were more or less helpful, but they didn't contain what I hoped I would find there...

Originally Posted by 6233638

Seeking works fine, using the old XP qdvd.dll would cause the player to become unresponsive.

I've looked into the XP seeking problem, but it seems to be an MPC-HC bug, from what I can see.

Originally Posted by crotecun

The scaling algorithms UI bug still exists by the way, just thought I'd give a heads-up.

Yeah, didn't find the time to fix that yet.

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Madshi, Jinc 3 with AR appears to produce a sharper image than Jinc 4 with AR (has always been the case) The sharpness bar graph might need revision.

In my test images it looks like Jinc4 might be ever so slightly sharper than Jinc3. Maybe it depends on the test material...

[madshi]

madVR v0.84.5 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* improved rendering behaviour with DVD menus and still images

There has been some confusion in some forums, so let me sum up the current state of madVR DVD support:

Basically madVR can now play DVDs just fine now with the MS DVD Navigator (or any other navigator). The Macrovision problem should be gone for good. However, there are 2 limitations compared to VMR/EVR:

(1) Your DVDs *must* be decrypted if you want to play them with madVR, e.g. by AnyDVD.
(2) You need to use a video decoder which is able to draw the DVD menu stuff on top of the video frames. E.g. LAV Video Decoder does that. You can also use other video decoders but then part of the DVD menus might not be fully drawn.

If you run into "DVD Copy-Protect Fail" (MPC-HC) or "Key exchange for DVD copy protection failed" (ZP) complaints, then you simply forgot to decrypt the DVD.

I'm still talking to Microsoft about why EVR can play encrypted DVDs and madVR cannot, but it seems to me they don't know, either. Or maybe they just don't feel like looking at the DVD Navigator source code, I don't know. At least I don't have high hopes they will find a solution for madVR. But they're trying, so let's wait and see...

[Prinz]

There must be a check for the Renderer in the DVD Navigator. If I select Null as Renderer in MPC-HC the same thing happens:

- With anydvd active it plays (audio only of course)

- without anydvd the same error message: DVD Copy-Protect Fail

All MS Renders (Overlay,VMR7,VMR9,EVR) work with and without anydvd.

[leeperry]

for the new build! but DVD's had always worked in PotP IME anyway ^^

Originally Posted by madshi

I'm still talking to Microsoft about why EVR can play encrypted DVDs and madVR cannot

Good to hear that m$ doesn't play deaf with you, right after nvidia clearly stating in their drivers changelog that some fixes were meant to help with mVR.....I guess both companies came to realize that your killer VR does sell OS licences and GPU's

Anyway, I just spent an hour messing around with chroma/luma upscales, and to my eyes the most "3D" picture is still softcubic50 AR for chroma + Jinc3 AR for luma(I forgot to try Jinc4 but my 8800GS is barely fast enough for Jinc3 anyway). I've never been too fund of mixing the luma/chroma noises together and I've always enjoyed the cleanest luma possible on top of a reasonably soft chroma(sc50 seems to be the sweet spot indeed). Several ppl on HCFR also swear by:

ss=2
spline144resize(round(ss*last.width),round(ss*last.height))

but it looked utterly noisy: 8bit Avisynth/ffdshow processing is a lost cause, end of story. It's astounding to think that so much effort has gone through this app, and yet in 2012 it's still limited to 8bit output(apart from some kludgy hacks) when the first rule in DSP is to never use the same bit-depth for input and output(16int audio input>64fp processing>24int output)

for luma, Lanczos3 AR looks "computer'ish" to death, Spline3 AR seems to slightly add some EE(ringing?) and Jinc3 AR gives the most natural and 3D'ish picture, yay!

All this said, I can't quite resist that ref 660 board for 170€ shipped anymore as I can't even upscale 960*540 to 1080p(as I initially thought), so bring the pain

I'll have to rerun an Argyll calibration with the new board, so I'll make sure to test how the "disable gamma ramps" mVR option behaves with a 1.0 gamma 3x1D CLUT and report back.

[Pat357]

Originally Posted by leeperry

Anyway, I just spent an hour messing around with chroma/luma upscales, and to my eyes the most "3D" picture is still softcubic50 AR for chroma + Jinc3 AR for luma.

Was the AR for softcubic50 - chroma really needed ?
The softcubic algo doesn't really cause additional ringing (at least, to me). What I find a minus about SC50, is the occasional color-desaturation.
You could try SC50 again, but without AR : might save you from needing a new GPU at all !

8bit Avisynth/ffdshow processing is a lost cause, end of story. It's astounding to think that so much effort has gone through this app, and yet in 2012 it's still limited to 8bit output(apart from some kludgy hacks)

Goodbye Avisynth,...... WELCOME Vapoursynth !!

when the first rule in DSP is to never use the same bit-depth for input and output

That's the 3rd rule, not the first !
There is nothing wrong with bit-depth input = output, but it's the processing in between that should be done at a higher bit-depth + do a proper dithering !

[cyberbeing]

10-bit & 16-bit formats seem like they need to be blacklisted from enabling madVR deinterlacing.

[Pat357]

Originally Posted by cyberbeing

10-bit & 16-bit formats seem like they need to be blacklisted from enabling madVR deinterlacing.

You mean you can't let MadVR deinterlace 8-bit content if any >8 bit format in LAVvideo is enabled ?
What kind of content was it ?
It's obvious that >8 bit content can't be deinterlaced as MadVR uses "standard DVXA2" to do the deinterlacing.

As long as you keep all formats checked in LAVvideo, the deinterlacing of 8 bit content should work ; if not there must be a bug.

I don't know how >8bit formats with interlacing are handled, but maybe an idea for Madshi would be :
to refuse all >8 bit formats if deinterlacing is asked for, or automatic (flags) or manual (<ctrl>+<alt>+<shift>+d or other key).
This way LAV or any other decoder has to stick to to 8 bit formats. (Not even sure how LAV would act if for ex. NV12+YV12 are disabled with interlaced content)
or
for formats >8bit, disable de-interlacing and show the "still interlaced" content (user will notice this and can react accordingly)

This makes me also think again about the order of the color formats in LAV-video : IIRC if NV12 and YV12 are disabled, the next formats are P016, P010. I guess this will obviously give problems with interlaced content.
Would it bring anything to put YUY2 before P016 and P010 in this case ? (interlaced content).

Another way to look at this is : if the user disables certain formats, he should know the consequences and not come to cry that the deinterlacing is not working anymore !
For me, this is OK

[6233638]

Originally Posted by madshi

Basically madVR can now play DVDs just fine now with the MS DVD Navigator (or any other navigator). The Macrovision problem should be gone for good. However, there are 2 limitations compared to VMR/EVR:

(1) Your DVDs *must* be decrypted if you want to play them with madVR, e.g. by AnyDVD.
(2) You need to use a video decoder which is able to draw the DVD menu stuff on top of the video frames. E.g. LAV Video Decoder does that. You can also use other video decoders but then part of the DVD menus might not be fully drawn.

If you run into "DVD Copy-Protect Fail" (MPC-HC) or "Key exchange for DVD copy protection failed" (ZP) complaints, then you simply forgot to decrypt the DVD.

I'm still talking to Microsoft about why EVR can play encrypted DVDs and madVR cannot, but it seems to me they don't know, either. Or maybe they just don't feel like looking at the DVD Navigator source code, I don't know. At least I don't have high hopes they will find a solution for madVR. But they're trying, so let's wait and see...

DVD menus are working much better now, I haven't run into any problems so far.

Hopefully you will get a solution back from Microsoft, but at least it's possible to play DVDs in madVR with the system DVD Navigator at all now.


Now that DVD playback is working, I've been going back through my collection, and a number of discs start with a "video" type intro showing the distributer logo before the menus start, so I switched madVR from forcing film mode to auto detection. It never seems to detect anything other than "video" for PAL content now. (I haven't tried anything NTSC yet, the majority of my discs are PAL)

Here's a sample that shows obvious problems with video deinterlacing:
http://www.freefilehosting.net/vts011demuxed

Originally Posted by leeperry

for the new build! but DVD's had always worked in PotP IME anyway ^^

Doesn't PotPlayer call home to Korea though?

Originally Posted by leeperry

Anyway, I just spent an hour messing around with chroma/luma upscales, and to my eyes the most "3D" picture is still softcubic50 AR for chroma + Jinc3 AR for luma(I forgot to try Jinc4 but my 8800GS is barely fast enough for Jinc3 anyway). I've never been too fund of mixing the luma/chroma noises together and I've always enjoyed the cleanest luma possible on top of a reasonably soft chroma(sc50 seems to be the sweet spot indeed).

You should avoid using the anti-ringing filter with SoftCubic, it is very damaging to image quality. (but almost anything you do to Chroma can be difficult to see if you are not using the right test material)

I would still argue against using SoftCubic at all for Chroma.
It is a measurably bad choice, as it reduces the brightness of, or desaturates Chroma.

Originally Posted by leeperry

I'll have to rerun an Argyll calibration with the new board, so I'll make sure to test how the "disable gamma ramps" mVR option behaves with a 1.0 gamma 3x1D CLUT and report back.

I suggest using ICC profiles in Windows and using madVR's 3DLUT for video calibration.

[cyberbeing]

Yes, I mean that madVR automatically enables deinterlacing on flagged interlaced high-bitdepth content, which isn't supported.

I ran into this problem when attempting to test YUY2 & AYUV/YV24 DVD subtitle quality out of LAV Video 0.52.0.
Though there would be nothing preventing someone from encoding native high-bitdepth interlaced video and run into similar problems with madVR automatic deinterlacing.

Uncheck NV12/YV12 and you get P010 with corrupted madVR deinterlacing.
Uncheck NV12/YV12/P010/P016 and you get Y216 with corrupted madVR deinterlacing.
Uncheck NV12/YV12/P010/P016/Y216/Y210/v210 and you'll finally get YUY2 which can be deinterlaced by madVR.
Uncheck NV12/YV12/P010/P016/Y216/Y210/v210/YUY2/RGB32/RGB24 and madVR will freeze when attempting to automatically enable deinterlacing on Y416.
Uncheck NV12/YV12/P010/P016/Y216/Y210/v210/YUY2/RGB32/RGB24/Y416/Y410/v410 and you'll get YV24 which can be deinterlaced by madVR.

madVR needs to come up with a solution for dealing with high-bitdepth video flagged as interlaced, that doesn't result in corrupted output or black screen freezing.
Blacklisting madVR deinterlacing from being enabled on high-bitdepth video would likely be the easiest solution.

[Anima123]

I am managing to buy a new gamer's laptop, there's one thing that I'd like to make sure before doing. Could you guys tell me which nVidia card is enough for video watching with the latest madVR with at least Jinc 3-tap plus AR for luma, 650M?

[Hypernova]

Originally Posted by Anima123

I am managing to buy a new gamer's laptop, there's one thing that I'd like to make sure before doing. Could you guys tell me which nVidia card is enough for video watching with the latest madVR with at least Jinc 3-tap plus AR for luma, 650M?

I don't know the answer, but here's some reference: Intel HD 4000 can barely do 720->1080 with Jinc3 in my exprerience. For ->1600p, I need to overclock it to the max and use bilinear for chroma and it will be a millisecond short of being able to keep up.

[JarrettH]

All DVD menus are working flawlessly and snappy since 0.84.5