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26th September 2015, 12:59 | #161 | Link |
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Here are the results : I encoded in 720*480 @ 25p, added pulldown with DGpulldown (I checked the line 25 --> 29.97) and made a dvd with Muxman.
Tested on 3 players all set on 1080p : none displayed 50 hz ! Oppo and Pioneer output 60p, Sony outputs 24p !? edit : if I disable 24p in Sony's setup (no instead of auto, there is not yes or force), it outputs 60p. I can force 50p in Oppo's setup (which calls it PAL) ; that's probably the best way to look this kind of dvd but curiously I didn't notice difference compared to 60p output (when Multi-system is selected in Oppo's setup). Last edited by Music Fan; 26th September 2015 at 13:39. |
26th September 2015, 14:21 | #165 | Link | |
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broadcast doesn't support this AFAIK. |
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26th September 2015, 14:57 | #166 | Link |
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Yes.
No because it was encoded in 25p (with assumefps(25) in the script) and nothing can tell the player that the orignal speed was 24p, even the mpeg-2 encoder has no way to know it. The script ouputs the same kind of signal than if I had de-interlaced 50i to 25p. If I had done changefps(25) instead of assumefps(25), in this case ok, a frame would be duplicated and the player could detect it, but it's not what I did. |
26th September 2015, 15:12 | #168 | Link | |
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26th September 2015, 15:22 | #170 | Link |
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Did you inspect the .ifo and .vob with e.g. ifoedit? Anything unusual? These contain also instructions for the playback.
Edit: Just as a sidenote: When I do a 2:1:1:1:1 hard-pulldown (Changefps(30)) in avisynth and decimate it with tdecimate() without specifying the framerate explicitly it also defaults to 24 fps. In order to get 25fps output I need to specify tdecimate(mode=2,rate=25), or fdecimate(rate=25). Last edited by Sharc; 26th September 2015 at 15:53. |
26th September 2015, 17:03 | #171 | Link | ||
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ConvertToYV12(interlaced=false) and ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true). For a progressive video, one would use interlaced=false, right? The problem is, if you encode (or rather flag) the video interlaced the player might do something like this to upsample the chroma for playback: ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true) Now that will result in the CUE (chroma upsampling error) if you used ConvertToYV12(interlaced=false) rather than ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true) for downsampling to 4:2:0. Quote:
It is potentially still a concern today in the case described above, but this time it's not the hardware's fault but user error. CUE (down: p; up: i) Correct (down: p; up: p) Also correct (down: i; up: i) Last edited by TheSkiller; 26th September 2015 at 20:19. |
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27th September 2015, 05:41 | #172 | Link | ||
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Okay, that's actually a huge bunch of "if"s chained together and we all know playback setups can be broken in very creative ways, but honestly I think the solution should be to fix them (or at least get people to stop buying shitty DVD players etc.) rather than messing with things on the mastering side. Quote:
A playback setup is not required to be able to detect and reverse pulldown, so this application of a low-pass filter is the only way to guarantee that the chroma will correctly render on playback, regardless of whether the content is really interlaced (50/60 temporally distinct fields) or pulled-down. In practice it's probably safe to assume some sort of field matching will be used and that progressive chroma upsampling is done after all the deinterlacing and field matching nonsense, so you could just ignore this issue entirely. If it still uses interlaced chroma upsampling after deinterlacing or field matching, then that obviously falls under the category of "your setup is broken so we won't support it".
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27th September 2015, 14:45 | #175 | Link | ||
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Now my point is, the player is not doing anything wrong there, really. Whenever you put something non-interlaced on a DVD and yet flag it interlaced, you should downsample the chroma to 4:2:0 the "interlaced way". I'm rather sure in the end that's probably almost the same as applying a vertical low-pass on the chroma, so we kind of agree that something needs to be done. Last edited by TheSkiller; 27th September 2015 at 14:47. |
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27th September 2015, 16:35 | #178 | Link |
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blur() reduces details and sharp transitions by removing high frequencies = lowpass filtering
You could also downscale (and then upscale) the picture. Scaling applies a lowpass filter in order to prevent aliasing. |
27th September 2015, 17:26 | #179 | Link | |
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Let's disregard the idea of using a low-pass filter for the time being. By using interlaced downscaling, there would be two steps causing aliasing in the whole chain (both downscaling and upscaling), whereas with progressive downscaling, the only step that causes aliasing is the interlaced upscaling step. There's no obvious reason to believe that the aliasing caused by interlaced upscaling and by interlaced downscaling should magically cancel out, so progressive downscaling should be preferred. With a low-pass filter applied, all of this becomes moot if we use a sinc filter (zero aliasing in either step!), but since we don't actually use sinc filters for low-pass filtering or resampling (lolringing + lolslow), to minimise aliasing we should still use progressive downscaling. (Also, we can combine the resampling and low-pass filtering steps into one by adjusting Dither_resize16's fv parameter.) I think there might be a better way of downscaling than either normal progressive downscaling or interlaced downscaling if we know that it'll be interlace-upscaled later on, but I'm a bit too busy to work out the details at the moment.
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28th September 2015, 10:48 | #180 | Link | |
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down: p; up: i down: p; up: p down: i; up: i |
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