madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Dodgexander]

Originally Posted by madshi

It should work fine on a 5570 if you don't set the scaling algorithms too high. You may want to check if the queues are all full. Also make sure the queues are not too small. Finally, try again with the next build.

Can I have a sample of that 25i content which doesn't look well for you?

Here are a couple of samples that show dropped frames for me. They aren't that great at showing the judder, but they do show dropped frames from the osd still. If you need more let me know, I can provide better examples of a 1080i 25 file.

It seems to be about 10 frames every second for 1080i and 576i. You'll notice with the HD sample at first there are no framedrops because its progressive, but as soon as the program starts it switches to interlaced and thats when they start.

Oh the other thing is, for live tv it doesn't work at all. Obvious judder.

EDIT

My fault, I had my cpu and gpu queue to low, when I raised it works fine.

I love this new feature, thanks Madshi. I tried SVP and it looked unnatural when watching sport, this however looks far more natural. You don't get that "it looks odd" feeling like I did with svp.

---

Now this is working for me with 1080i and 576i 25fps recordings, if anyone else is interested It is also working in mpc-hc for live dvb tv! How awesome is that!

So anyone who is having weird judder increase your queue sizes. It even fixes the windowed mode judder for me that other people have reported too!

[bugmen0t]

Originally Posted by shimaflarex

[...]
Edit 2: Setting my flush settings to Flush/Don't/Don't/Don't and disabling "use separated device for presentation" seems to solve my issue on 0.86.1.

Can you please verify: 'flush' & 'don't flush' for the last render step do the trick but 'flush & wait (sleep)' & 'flush & wait (loop)' don't.
What's the difference between 'flush' vs 'flush & wait'?

[pie1394]

Originally Posted by madshi

If you have a CRT, it can probably do any refresh rate you want, can it not? If so, just set your CRT to use an even multiple of the source framerate and you don't need to use madVR's smooth motion frc.

I guess many people will still keep asking you if FRC should be turned on... How about some comments in this option to describe the case(s) it might be needed?

Just purchased a new bigger LCD TV (Sony KDL-65HX920) to replace my 5-years-old PDP TV (Hitachi P42A01A) in the living room. I noticed one thing. Its 24 Hz input signal's quick moving scene handling looks good after some TV settings are adjusted. Although it is not perfect and random quick motion blur could be still observed, at least I felt motion handling in HX920 is somewhat a little bit smoother than the P42A01A's 24p-to-60i FRC.

Another surprise is about the super-resolution function done by X-Reality PRO engine. Without it, even the HD video shown by 65HX920 looks flat, lack of scene depth or stereo feeling --- which Darbee box tries to improve for LCD. Such functionality is never claimed on the old Pioneer Kuro / Hitachi PDP. But the presented video on them always look vivid / nature.

[ikarad]

Originally Posted by madshi

Yes..

Can you explain why?


Other thing.
I install filter of madvrtestpattern but all smoothmotionxx.ytp file make mpc-hc crash if I use ffdshow raw filter.

Only smallramp.ytp, colors.ytp and greyramp.ytp work with ffdshow raw filter.

[shimaflarex]

Originally Posted by bugmen0t

Can you please verify: 'flush' & 'don't flush' for the last render step do the trick but 'flush & wait (sleep)' & 'flush & wait (loop)' don't.
What's the difference between 'flush' vs 'flush & wait'?

Yes, that's it.
Tested on exclusive full screen mode, "smooth motion" on, "use a separated device for presentation" off :
Flush/Don't/Don't/Don't - Ok
Flush/Flush/Don't/Don't - Ok
Flush/Flush & wait(sleep)/Don't/Don't - render queue stuck on 0-3
Flush/Flush & wait(loop)/Don't/Don't - render queue stuck on 0-3

I don't really know what exactly is the difference between Flush and Flush & wait...what is it waiting?
Edit:
Flush & wait(sleep)/Don't/Don't/Don't - render queue stuck on 0-3

Flush & wait seems the culprit lol

[Dodgexander]

Originally Posted by ikarad

I install filter of madvrtestpattern but all smoothmotionxx.ytp file make mpc-hc crash if I use ffdshow raw filter.

Only smallramp.ytp, colors.ytp and greyramp.ytp work with ffdshow raw filter.

Could you tell me where you found that test pattern? Its not included in the current release. If possible also upload it?

[dansrfe]

Originally Posted by madshi

Are any of the queues going empty if that happens? Maybe your GPU is too slow? Maybe your queue size is too small? You've given me almost zero information to work with, so there's not much I can say here...

GTX 670, Windows 7. when I go from exclusive to windowed queue size goes to 0/4 and if I pause the video for 1-2 seconds then resume it fills up the queue then goes back to 0/4 after a couple of seconds. If I turn off FRC the queues fill up normally and the stuttering problem associated with rapid seeking goes away too.

[corporalgator]

Originally Posted by madshi

Do you *actually* get frame drops reported in the OSD? The "1 frame repeat every ..." is just a rough estimate. The only thing that really counts is the "dropped frames" counter. That one really counts the number of frames actually dropped during playback.

Actually never. I thought repeats just weren't counted, so thanks for clarifying. If I start a movie in full screen, the dropped frames counter will stay at 0 the entire movie.

[ikarad]

Originally Posted by Dodgexander

Could you tell me where you found that test pattern? Its not included in the current release. If possible also upload it?

Here
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1616520&postcount=17517

[agustin9]

Originally Posted by shimaflarex

Yes, that's it.
Tested on exclusive full screen mode, "smooth motion" on, "use a separated device for presentation" off :
Flush/Don't/Don't/Don't - Ok
Flush/Flush/Don't/Don't - Ok
Flush/Flush & wait(sleep)/Don't/Don't - render queue stuck on 0-3
Flush/Flush & wait(loop)/Don't/Don't - render queue stuck on 0-3

I don't really know what exactly is the difference between Flush and Flush & wait...what is it waiting?
Edit:
Flush & wait(sleep)/Don't/Don't/Don't - render queue stuck on 0-3

Flush & wait seems the culprit lol

Sounds like a gpu drivers problem

[shimaflarex]

Originally Posted by agustin9

Sounds like a gpu drivers problem

I am using the recently released Geforce 314.07 driver on W7 x64...

[Dodgexander]

Originally Posted by ikarad

Here
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1616520&postcount=17517

Thanks I was being an idiot.

Did you install using the bat file before trying to playback one of the patterns?

For I tested all of them and they are working fine.

Maybe re-download in case of a corruption?

[jmone]

(Cross Post from the JRiver forum)... Has anyone one used madshi's latest test patterns with JRiver MC18? http://madshi.net/madTestPatternSource.zip

The instructions are:
INSTALL: run install.bat (with admin rights!)
USAGE: drag one of the "*.ytp" files into your favorite media player

...but no luck so far for me (tried the old Windows Merit Based filter selection as well).

The ytp files don't seem to be recognised by MC.

Thanks
Nathan

[turbojet]

jmone: I don't have JRMC but I had the same sort of problem and unless madvrtestpatterns are on the system drive they won't install without adding @cd /d "%~dp0" to the install batch file, same goes with uninstall and activate debug. Wish madshi would fix this, have mentioned it a few times now.

shimaflarex: changing flush settings works for a while for me but eventually backbuffer goes back to 0. Increasing the queues and using separate device also alleviate the problem for awhile but eventually drops frames. Even changing a tab in chrome or firefox causes dropped frames with FRC on. Everything is fine with it off. I like FRC and appreciate madshi's time and effort on it but I will hold off until the frame drop issues with nvidia gpu's is solved before using it, going back to 310 drivers didn't change anything. GPU sits around 30% with 40% memory usage, CPU around 10%, 35% ram usage. A framedrop here and there is understandable and I don't notice it but at times there's 15-20 frames dropped and it's very noticeable. Don't know whether it's madvr or nvidia's responsibility to fix.

[shimaflarex]

Originally Posted by turbojet

shimaflarex: changing flush settings works for a while for me but eventually backbuffer goes back to 0. Increasing the queues and using separate device also alleviate the problem for awhile but eventually drops frames. Even changing a tab in chrome or firefox causes dropped frames with FRC on. Everything is fine with it off. I like FRC and appreciate madshi's time and effort on it but I will hold off until the frame drop issues with nvidia gpu's is solved before using it, going back to 310 drivers didn't change anything. GPU sits around 30% with 40% memory usage, CPU around 10%, 35% ram usage. A framedrop here and there is understandable and I don't notice it but at times there's 15-20 frames dropped and it's very noticeable. Don't know whether it's madvr or nvidia's responsibility to fix.

Hm, I've watched a 30 min video with no frame drops...actually, I forgot to check the OSD at the end of the video, but I didn't notice any framedrop. I didn't test much on windowed mode though...but it seems to be working fine. Did you try using those flush settings on new exclusive mode without using a separated device for presentation?

[Niyawa]

Originally Posted by madshi

Make sure Aero is turned on. If it is and you still have tearing, something is broken. Either the GPU or the GPU drivers or the OS. You could try installing a different GPU driver version. But this all doesn't really have much to do with madVR. Aero is not supposed to ever tear. If it does, then it can't be madVR's fault.

Okay, got it. Thanks. The issue seems to have been gone with the little fellow too.

[tickled_pink]

Originally Posted by shimaflarex

Yes, that's it.
Tested on exclusive full screen mode, "smooth motion" on, "use a separated device for presentation" off :
Flush/Don't/Don't/Don't - Ok
Flush/Flush/Don't/Don't - Ok
Flush/Flush & wait(sleep)/Don't/Don't - render queue stuck on 0-3
Flush/Flush & wait(loop)/Don't/Don't - render queue stuck on 0-3

I don't really know what exactly is the difference between Flush and Flush & wait...what is it waiting?
Edit:
Flush & wait(sleep)/Don't/Don't/Don't - render queue stuck on 0-3

Flush & wait seems the culprit lol

I can confirm these results with Intel HD Graphics and AMD HD 6570. Both running up to date drivers. Render queue is 2-4 with Flush & sleep/loop and 7-8 with Flush only.

[DarK_MischieF]

madshi,

first off i want to thank you for your tireless work on madVR. it is an amazing product and has really opened my eyes to the complexity of video rendering. i have long followed your progress but have never contributed- in the light of your new release (0.86), however, i felt it would be a good time to start.

i have trouble with two scenarios, 60fps HD content, and smooth motion (but not when they are combined as my monitor is 60Hz).

1) 60fps HD content
frame drops- not too bad if full screen and if its the primary focus (about 6 drops in 1 minute of playback), otherwise very large (100 drops in 1 minute of playback)- can't seem to predict if it will be smooth or not. everything else looks okay except render queue seems to be one beind upload queue (9-10 / 10 vs 8-10 / 10). backbuffer occasionally drops to 0 then recovers.

2) smooth motion
frame drops- sometimes its good (<10 for extended playback), sometimes frame rates are severe. i think this is dependent on the content and the 'busi-ness' of the scene. most of my content is HD, blu-ray rips. i think my hardware is powerful enough so i feel that i must have some incorrect settings that is causing some kind of issue / bug. full screen exclusive performs better than windowed but has other disadvantages. windowed performs worse (sometimes compositon rate goes to 30Hz- rare and unpredictable), but offers more flexibility for placement.

settings
LAV VIDEO
no hardware decoding (have tried DXVA2 (copy-back) no change)
output formats: all but AYUV (4:4:4)

MADVR
devices-
8 bit, disable calibration controls, no display modes, pure power curve 2.20 gamma processing
no decoding, automatically activate deinterlacing when needed (if in doubt activate)
jinc 3 taps (anti ringing), jinc 3 taps (anti ringing), catmull-rom (anti ringing / scale in linear light)

rendering-
delay playback, use a seperate device, cpu queue 12, gpu queue 10
windowed mode, 8 backbuffer, flush, flush and wait (sleep), don't flush, don't flush
smooth motion- only if there would be motion judder without it
trade quality for performance- don't use linear light for smooth motion frame blending

--------------

i have tried many variations of settings to improve performance but none of them seem to have a noticeable effect. i have set low buffer queues, high buffer queues and different scaling algorithims- perhaps this isn't where the bottleneck is?

ideally , i was hoping to get some more insight on the settings as i feel a little lost on why the performance is what it is. the 60fps issue has been there for as long as i can remember, the smooth motion was obviously only very recently.

thanks!

EDIT 2/24/2013
Windowed mode- Changed "after last render step" flush & wait (sleep) to flush improves dropped frames- backbuffers fall to 0 occasionaly still, but its alot better. render queue is still one behind upload queue.

[turbojet]

I was testing in windowed mode and had the same results as DarK_MischieF's edit, it's improved but not fixed. Confirmed it works well with FSE but I rarely use fullscreen on this computer, on another (broken) computer it's about all that's used. Using overlay keeps the backbuffer full in windowed mode and there's no frame drops but taskbar previews and multiple videos are nice to have for me at times. Hopefully empty backbuffers is a madvr issue this time as it's happening on intel, ati, and nvidia. Not many months ago nvidia had a backbuffer issue that took years for them to fix.

EDIT: After about 20 minutes backbuffers drop back to 0 quite often again using overlay.

[Dodgexander]

If you can change the flush settings and it works, what is the problem?

I don't have any of the problems mentioned with a Radeon HD6870 so sadly can't help out.

Maybe it's only related to certain gpu's