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Old 19th March 2013, 09:05   #18041  |  Link
rahzel
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Originally Posted by truexfan81 View Post
and yet it looks better when forced to 16-235
It does not. Everything 6233638 said is correct.
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Old 19th March 2013, 09:49   #18042  |  Link
nevcairiel
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and yet it looks better when forced to 16-235
If it does, then your system is either setup to only work with 16-235, or doesn't properly support full-range content.
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Old 19th March 2013, 11:36   #18043  |  Link
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So when using EVR, it's best to keep everything at 16-235 to avoid the nasty truncation and banding brought about by conversion to 0-255, right? MadVR presumably doesn't have this problem with the higher bit depth used for conversions, so 0-255 makes more sense (matches desktop graphics).
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Old 19th March 2013, 14:11   #18044  |  Link
6233638
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So when using EVR, it's best to keep everything at 16-235 to avoid the nasty truncation and banding brought about by conversion to 0-255, right? MadVR presumably doesn't have this problem with the higher bit depth used for conversions, so 0-255 makes more sense (matches desktop graphics).
I can't speak for EVR, but yes, madVR uses more than enough precision to eliminate any problems with levels expansion from 16-235 to 0-255.
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Old 19th March 2013, 14:31   #18045  |  Link
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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Please post examples of content that has meaningful information above 235 if you have them.
it's possible with pc game content i try to make a sample later but i never tryed something like this. normal capture software allways change the input rgb 0-255 to yua 4:2:0 16-235.

but does this even matter i mean madvr will see the stream information and everything will be correct...
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Old 19th March 2013, 14:55   #18046  |  Link
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it's possible with pc game content i try to make a sample later but i never tryed something like this. normal capture software allways change the input rgb 0-255 to yua 4:2:0 16-235.

but does this even matter i mean madvr will see the stream information and everything will be correct...
Oh, no need for a sample of that. Game footage will be 0-255, but it will be handled correctly.

What I meant is that in commercial content (e.g. films) there should be no meaningful content (if anything) above 235.
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Old 19th March 2013, 18:12   #18047  |  Link
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this leads to my next question...desktop better set to rgb or yuv?

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it's possible with pc game content i try to make a sample later but i never tryed something like this. normal capture software allways change the input rgb 0-255 to yua 4:2:0 16-235.

but does this even matter i mean madvr will see the stream information and everything will be correct...
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Old 19th March 2013, 18:37   #18048  |  Link
LigH
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Will the OSD ever be configurable? It is so huge in MPC-HC.
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Old 19th March 2013, 18:54   #18049  |  Link
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The OSD is pretty small if the resolution of your desktop and MPC-HC is of reasonable size relative to the resolution of monitors today.
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Old 19th March 2013, 19:02   #18050  |  Link
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But if I start a CIF resolution video, already the filename hardly fits in the window, as long as I don't maximize the window.
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Old 19th March 2013, 19:15   #18051  |  Link
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But if I start a CIF resolution video, already the filename hardly fits in the window, as long as I don't maximize the window.
Yeah, I agree with small resolutions it would be nice if madshi implemented a scaling range for the OSD. Somewhere between 75% - 100% I suppose. But then the text would be difficult to read on the OSD so I'm not sure how that would work out.
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Old 19th March 2013, 21:19   #18052  |  Link
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Oh, no need for a sample of that. Game footage will be 0-255, but it will be handled correctly.

What I meant is that in commercial content (e.g. films) there should be no meaningful content (if anything) above 235.
I have an nvidia Ion HTPC and a Hitachi L42A403 that as far as i know it doesn't support full range (0-255), in nvidia control panel theres an option called video configuration and then i can choose 0-255, do you recommend to set it to full range and madvr the same? even if my display doesn't support 0-255, maybe i have to force 0-255 with the .exe included in madvr, in Lav video settings do i have to set it to 0-255 too? I'm all mixed up, thanks all for your help.
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Old 19th March 2013, 21:53   #18053  |  Link
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Set everything in your playback chain to 0-255 and use the included madNvLevelsTweaker.exe tool to force 0-255 if you're using nvidia drivers. Playback chain includes drivers, madVR, receiver, tv and anything else in-between.

Last edited by dansrfe; 19th March 2013 at 22:00.
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Old 19th March 2013, 23:23   #18054  |  Link
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Set everything in your playback chain to 0-255 and use the included madNvLevelsTweaker.exe tool to force 0-255 if you're using nvidia drivers. Playback chain includes drivers, madVR, receiver, tv and anything else in-between.
I have nvidia + mpc-hc + lav video decoder + madvr

My Samsung TV has HDMI level set to Normal (0-255), madNvLevelsTweaker used to force PC levels, nvidia control panel set to rgb output and full range 0-255, madvr output set to PC levels (0-255).

Now, should I set lav video decoder to do rgb->yuv conversion to PC levels, or 'untouched (same as input)'. I select 'untouched'; I figure let madvr handle it. is this correct?
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Old 19th March 2013, 23:56   #18055  |  Link
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If we should set everything to 0-255, then why did madshi specifically recommend that I set desktop to 0-255 and madvr/TV to 16-235? We even both have Panasonic Plasmas.
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Old 20th March 2013, 00:19   #18056  |  Link
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Set everything in your playback chain to 0-255 and use the included madNvLevelsTweaker.exe tool to force 0-255 if you're using nvidia drivers. Playback chain includes drivers, madVR, receiver, tv and anything else in-between.
Thanks dansfre but my TV doesn't have a 0-255 option, so in my particular case i may ask, what's the real benefit in having anything at 0-255?
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Old 20th March 2013, 01:57   #18057  |  Link
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I have nvidia + mpc-hc + lav video decoder + madvr

My Samsung TV has HDMI level set to Normal (0-255), madNvLevelsTweaker used to force PC levels, nvidia control panel set to rgb output and full range 0-255, madvr output set to PC levels (0-255).

Now, should I set lav video decoder to do rgb->yuv conversion to PC levels, or 'untouched (same as input)'. I select 'untouched'; I figure let madvr handle it. is this correct?
Yep, that's correct.

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Thanks dansfre but my TV doesn't have a 0-255 option, so in my particular case i may ask, what's the real benefit in having anything at 0-255?
0-255 keeps consistency with the range of my desktop and as madshi has previously said, it provides a visually better dynamic range, however I suppose that's something that you would have to see for yourself if you haven't seen a 0-255 playback chain before.

Last edited by dansrfe; 20th March 2013 at 02:06.
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Old 20th March 2013, 03:01   #18058  |  Link
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There's no definitive answer. Set 0-255 on all.

Limited is only there for older displays to ensure you don't spread sources to full but can only see limited.(e.g. washed out picture)

If your worried about your display or receiver only displaying limited then use a test pattern.

Each situation is different since everyone's setup differs. There's no point saying do this because that's what I did. Test patterns don't lie.

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Old 20th March 2013, 04:26   #18059  |  Link
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There's no definitive answer. Set 0-255 on all.

Limited is only there for older displays to ensure you don't spread sources to full but can only see limited.(e.g. washed out picture)

If your worried about your display or receiver only displaying limited then use a test pattern.

Each situation is different since everyone's setup differs. There's no point saying do this because that's what I did. Test patterns don't lie.

This is what I thought. I use GCD as one of my tools to calibrate my htpc, namely the btb/wtw patterns. There's a lot of conflicting info out there so I need a little clarification. When people use these patterns and set their dark levels, color ranges etc. in the end what's the most important thing to achieve? Should I make sure my reference white and black are exactly right or is it more important to make sure I'm getting full range on my videos/and or desktop.

My htpc is connected via hdmi to my avr/hdtv. I've got a nvidia gpu and when forcing full range and setting everything to pc levels I'm not able to use these btb patterns. I can see one bar with my brightness cranked and that's it. I calibrated on both a ps3 and my htpc and can make my results match so I know what my brightness needs to be set at. But like I said while in mpc-hc I need to know what to look for in these test patterns.


If anyone wants to check out the GCD patterns here's the link
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406352/gc...libration-disk
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Old 20th March 2013, 08:21   #18060  |  Link
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If we should set everything to 0-255, then why did madshi specifically recommend that I set desktop to 0-255 and madvr/TV to 16-235? We even both have Panasonic Plasmas.
That would be the proper setup if your TV does not support full-range RGB, and requires limited. But if it supports full-range, it should be used, imho.
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