using cce instead of reempeg -> OW no sync !

[Eagleone]

Robshot's guide works well for cce encoding. (btw you can get it at www.robshot.com)

I can confirm as well that muxing a cce .m2v file via ifoedit .8 does not yet work correctly. I checked the .m2v file before using ifoedit, it is playing ok. When vob is produced by ifoedit it skips frames to maintain audio/video sync.

I think the problem is in multiplexing. I confess ignorance here but as an idea maybe the original movie GOPs are not the same as the cce reencoded GOPs. Rempeg allows for this, but other encoders dont (cant). I did some work with rempeg and it showed that not all gops are the same(IPB stuff). Maybe this is one parameter that need to be taken into account. Another parameter could be the various rff flags which would not necessarily correspond to the reencoded video.

Anyway it is a good effort. Happy new year to all!!

[3tv]

so, if ya take the newly created cce m2v file + the ac3 and other tracks from the original vob you could use some authoring software, such as maestro to create a new vob with synced audio, then use ifoedit but skip the remux. Would you have all the chapter points intact or would these need to have been added in maestro?

cheerz

[mpucoder]

Eagleone brings up a very important point. When encoding for NTSC you must enable pulldown, or IfoEdit cannot remux the video. There is also a program available from Doom9 for setting the rff/tff flags, but it did not perform well for me.
Question for everyone having problems remuxing CCE video - NTSC or PAL?

[Derrow]

I just transcoded my first movie with CCE and remuxed it with my new IfoEdit version, and get a terrible result.
The movie is not watchable. It hops, stops. Just terrible.

The problem is the huge difference between the number of frames in the original movie, and the created m2v file by CCE.

I think there might be a solution to it, right now.
In CCE you must adjust the GOP options, to let CCE produce nearly the same frame-count, like in the origianl movie.
Use VobEdit, to analyse your origianl VOB file. Go through some 'Navigation Pack' and look at the Cell elapsed time.
This way, you can count how much frames, each Vob-Unit has.

Now that you know the frame-count in original, adjust in CCE the GOP options, to produce GOP's with nearly the same frame-count.
The remuxing with IfoEdit should work better then.
I'm going to check that out with my movie now.

[OnErr0r]

mpucoder: I'm doing NTSC. I did use Force Film in dvd2avi 1.76 and then pulldown 99c (available from www.videotools.net) http://www.horizon.nl/~michel/bin/pulldown.zip

But that just adds flags not frames... so I'm trying Forced Film off and encode ALL the frames. Somewhat slower as its 29.97 frames as opposed to 23.976, but if it works...

Derrow: Are you using NTSC or PAL? And what applications to frameserve to CCE and CCE settings?

Thanks guys!

[SkoalWintergreen]

the frams problem shouldn't be an issue if you don't use forced film in DVD2AVI, for an NTSC film when you DVD2AVI with 29.97 frames, and the reencode with CCE, you should have exactly the same number of frames as you do with the orginal file, for CCE settings I would recommend reading the guide at Roboshot he does a lot of weird stuff at the end I wouldn't worry about just calculate normally, the sync issues have to be in the remux, my question is for Darrow if I remux the VOB, in something like streamweaver, how can I get the VOB back into the movie properly using IFoedit, and can you put the chapters back in?

[Eagleone]

Some quick answers. I use PAL so 3/2 pullldown is not a factor. In rempeg when the log (.vinf) file is created you can see the frame sequence. Mostly it is the same as cce but every now and then there is one like "IPB" then on to the next one.

At the start of the movie everything works together then from about 1-2 minutes the fun starts. Subtitles dont work either. No fast forward or rewind.

The same cce encoded video can be multiplexed with Streamweaver and oringal audio creating a new vob sequence. I have other problems there but no sync or fast fwd/rwd problems. I can not test it further since I have no authoring program which can accept ac3.

I will try rempeg on the same video tonight.

[mpucoder]

This is a little off-topic, but the flags added (rff/tff) are what make a 23.976fps play at 29.97 - there are no added frames in NTSC movies, just flags that tell the player to repeat a field (twice for each group of 4 frames). These flags also tell IfoEdit how long each frame will display, and from there the elapsed time of the GOP is calculated.
ReMPEG2 copies these flags - also it displays both the actual frame count and the displayed frame/field count.
What would be nice would be a program to gather those numbers to run on CCE output and compare with the original.
The composition of the VOBUs is another story, and most likely is the cause of remux problems, but I know someone who's working on that right now

[SkoalWintergreen]

Just wanna make sure this goes to the top, b/c the make or break point for 1:1 DVD copying right now is in the hands of someone figuring out how to remux CCE without sync issues!

[Eagleone]

Well rempeg works with ifoedit. This means that ifoedit is useful now as it is. I am sure you people can make rempeg (or similar) better and faster. Lowering just a little bit the average bitrate while maintaining original GOP structure in all units is the key.

[rmtaibo]

If there were a way to get the source code of ReMPEG and to improve the encoding quality...

[Doom9]

has anybody read robshots new cce guide (www.robshot.com)? He mentions some stuff that might be useful as the normal cce input can be problematic even for authoring progs.. maybe that would apply here too.

and as for the rempeg2 sourcecode... that is in the works but it's pretty damned hard to reach somebody who has disappeared

[rmtaibo]

Doom9, take a look at this very old link:

http://perso.libertysurf.fr/freezy3k/html/Main_News.htm

go to 21/02 date. Is the same ReMPEG-2 software that we're using with IfoEdit?

That page show this link:

http://www.mediaware.com.au/M2-xcode-cl.html

[SkoalWintergreen]

Question is how do you get a hold of that software?

[Doom9]

the mediaware tool obviously has no relation to rempeg2 whatsoever... the former is commercial soft that costs $400au and the latter pretty buggy and slow freeware.

has anybody tried mpeg2mpg btw? it's open source soft.. dunno if we ever get to see the source of rempeg2.. many others have tried, ppl that generally have more influence than the average user but still.. no answer.

[rmtaibo]

TMPGEnc 2.5 is out
It has a new option to set the number of frames in a GOP.
Maybe this is the cause of bad sync of audio/video when multiplexing with IfoEdit.

I'll test this:
from ReMPEG (I think from VobEdit too) I can get the total number of GOPs and Frames and depending of this relation I'll limit the number of frames in a GOP of TMPGEnc.

[bru]

Originally posted by Eagleone
Well rempeg works with ifoedit. This means that ifoedit is useful now as it is. I am sure you people can make rempeg (or similar) better and faster. Lowering just a little bit the average bitrate while maintaining original GOP structure in all units is the key.

I've tried to copy DVD using REMPEG and Ifoedit several times with no problems, sometimes even the extras too. But I find that REMPEG doesn't always work in reducing the bitrate. Sometimes (in several movies I found) the M2V produced has lots of abnormal blockiness (like when you're watching a scratched CD), I tried to change the setting in REMPEG but still the picture is very bad. There's no synch problem though.

The last time I tried is with the movie '3000 miles to graceland' region 1, I rempeg the vobs and this problem occured. Am I the only one who has this problems?

-bru

[rmtaibo]

bru

Remember to activate "Match Source" in "Frame Mode" option in ReMPEG.

You said:
"But I find that REMPEG doesn't always work in reducing the bitrate"

It's true, I ripped TRAFFIC (R4) and got 3 peaks of 22 Mbps (out of DVD specs) in the main movie.
I activated "limit max bitrate" to 6 Mbps and a "scale factor" of 60% with no results. The encoder makes these 3 big peaks again.
The peaks occurs when the picture changes from blank screen to a very bright+high motion scenes. But the nominal bitrate effectively got down from 9.2 Mbps to 5.2 Mbps.
The movie played very well, with the exception of video freezing at these peaks.

[rmtaibo]

I did the following test on a 6 min vob...

Go to TMPGEnc-->Setting-->GOP Structure:

Uncheck "Detect Scene Change"
Uncheck "Output bitstream for edit (Closed GOP)"
Uncheck "Force Picture Type Setting"
IPB structure must be the same as the original movie, in this case:
I=1
P=4(In some movies, these number is 3, 4 or 5)
B=2

(You can use ReMPEG to Know GOP structure
In this case you will see
IBBPBBPBBPBBPBB)

Output interval of sequence header= 1 GOP
Max number of frames in a GOP= 18 (or 0)

Used IfoEdit for Remux with the Option of "Rebuild PTS"

And Voila!!!!

It played perfectly in my Philips 955 standalone. I got down the nominal bitrate from 9.8 Mbps to 3.0 Mbps @ 352x480 and CQ_VBR 100(almost SVCD bitrate) with a perfect and clear image.

If you check "Detect Scene Change" the original GOP structure will change completely. When any scene changes occur, TMPGEnc will broke the GOP structure and begins with a new I picture (new GOP). And the new VOB file will get a lot of "I" pictures more than the original. Maybe this is the reason of Out of Sync problem.

Check if CCE has this option. (I don't have CCE software)

I'll try this settings for more testings, maybe this method work only for this specific 6 minutes VOB file...
(sorry for my english speech)

AND HAPPY NEW YEAR FROM VENEZUELA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Deathman]

where did you get tmpeg 2.5 from ? i can only see 2.02 on tmpegs site