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Old 4th January 2005, 11:33   #21  |  Link
akupenguin
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Quote:
Originally posted by iapir
So far the only solution I know is to encode different parts separately and then merge the result together with timecode files in Matroska.
You don't have to encode separately. Just lie to the codec about framerates and bitrates (if you want to get fancy, use zones to correct the bit distribution), and fix it with the Matroska timecodes.
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Old 4th January 2005, 11:44   #22  |  Link
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Yes, but unfortunately the whole bunch of MPEG codec keep track of the time inside the frame. So it's probably better not to fool them too much.
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Old 4th January 2005, 12:19   #23  |  Link
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Sadly, after installing .NET 2.0 beta (2.0.40467), I concur with superdump's findings!

EDIT: The "macroblock options" look interesting!


Cheers
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Old 4th January 2005, 19:41   #24  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Sadly, after installing .NET 2.0 beta (2.0.40467), I concur with superdump's findings!

EDIT: The "macroblock options" look interesting!


Cheers
Same for me BUT
Go to windows/Microsoft.NET/framework/
Create a directory called v2.0.41013 and copy v2.0.40607 files in it, it should work , at least for me

Hope for you too

Thanks Doom9 for your tool
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Old 4th January 2005, 20:14   #25  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by easyfab
Same for me BUT
Go to windows/Microsoft.NET/framework/
Create a directory called v2.0.41013 and copy v2.0.40607 files in it, it should work , at least for me

Hope for you too
Jeez!

I don't believe it... that procedure worked a treat There sure are some clever people around here!

I wonder whether such a procedure would have worked without having to install .NET 2.0 beta at all?


Many thanks
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Old 4th January 2005, 20:28   #26  |  Link
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here's a new version, compiled against the 2.0 beta1 runtime.

I'm afraid it looks less sexy (hopefully the next official beta will be out soon - the October CTP was really unstable), but I've added job queuing as well so you can now configure multiple jobs and have them run one after another.
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Old 4th January 2005, 20:32   #27  |  Link
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and here's the source. I don't really feel like packaging license files and adding source comments, but consider it released under the GPL. I'll fix commandline bugs if there are any, but other than that even though I have tons of ideas, I'm not really looking favorably upon spending what little free time I have adding features to this gui. Though snow and lavc mpeg-4 output would be cool And if somebody packports it to .NET 1.1, I wouldn't mind either..
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Old 4th January 2005, 20:42   #28  |  Link
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1) I assume it doesn't work with .NET 1.1?

2) Could you please separate this part of the thread from the original topic?
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Old 4th January 2005, 21:17   #29  |  Link
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@wilbert: I think
Quote:
It won't work if you don't have the 2.0 framework
is pretty clear
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Old 5th January 2005, 06:44   #30  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doom9
and here's the source. I don't really feel like packaging license files and adding source comments, but consider it released under the GPL. I'll fix commandline bugs if there are any, but other than that even though I have tons of ideas, I'm not really looking favorably upon spending what little free time I have adding features to this gui. Though snow and lavc mpeg-4 output would be cool And if somebody packports it to .NET 1.1, I wouldn't mind either..
It works great, thank you very much. But first of all I have to understand all the features in it. I donīt know all of them. So I will have a nice week and an interesting weekend.

Can I ask some questions here in this threat?
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Old 5th January 2005, 13:23   #31  |  Link
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i think its ok to use this thread, as the initial gui talked about doesnt support x264 till now anyways?
changed the title to a more clearer one
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Last edited by bond; 5th January 2005 at 13:49.
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Old 5th January 2005, 15:01   #32  |  Link
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Quote:
Can I ask some questions here in this threat?
Sure. If I have time I might add some tooltips in the future.
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Old 5th January 2005, 20:06   #33  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doom9
Sure. If I have time I might add some tooltips in the future.
Oh yes, some functions need some tips for me:

1) output four CC
AVC1 would be ok for MP4 Container right? I want to mux to MP4 after encoding

2) Codec
a. 2 pass, first pass:
a1) Quantizer: 0 is highest quality? I want to encode 1/3 DVD.
a3) Number of reference frames: 3 -5 ?
a4) Number of b-frames: 2-3 wwould be
a5) I want to use somethimg like adaptive. Is -2 for both ok?
a7) subpixel refinements: Always QPel brings highest quality?
a8) Macroblock options: Both for highest quality? b8*8mv and 4*4mv?

b. 2 pass, second pass
Bitrate: Bitrate for a 1/3 DVD Rip? From a calculation tool?


3) Quant & RC
Buffer Size = Bitrate and I should activate "fix" ?
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Old 5th January 2005, 20:35   #34  |  Link
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I think AVC1 is the proper FourCC for MP4, but perhaps bond just forgot to hit me over the head until now

quantizer: it's an up/down control, so use whatever values you can obtain with the up/down buttons Unless you're telling me I screwed up the limits, all the up/downs have been adjusted to allow only entries that are permissible (though I don't know how they act if you start typing away and don't hit enter (hitting enter will enforce a valid value)). I think quant1 is the standard for best quality.. I've never heard of quant0.

You'll also have to dig through the x264 thread, where you'll find suggested useful settings. For instance, if I'm not mistaken you should not use more than 1-bframe, and 3 reference frames is already much.

Bitrate: you obviously have to calculate that on your own Codecs generally don't provide a calculator that really holds for each output type and scenario. For instance, you'll be hard pressed to find reliable overhead values for MP4, with a fixed 1b-frame GOP structure (I think x264 GOP structure is fixed but once again I could be mistaken.. better read the x264 thread).

The fix checkbox for the buffer size is there that you can enforce a certain buffer size. By default, as long as you're in an encoding mode where you can specify a bitrate, the default buffer value is = bitrate. But on that, you'll also find some suggestions in the x264 thread.
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Old 5th January 2005, 20:38   #35  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by JoeBGermany
Oh yes, some functions need some tips for me:
2) Codec
a. 2 pass, first pass:
a1) Quantizer: 0 is highest quality? I want to encode 1/3 DVD.
0 is highest quality (similar bitrate to huffyuv, though it depends on the amount of motion). I find h264 @ qp=18 to be similar to mpeg4asp @ qp=2, and h264 @ qp=24 to be similar to mpeg4asp @ qp=4.
Quote:
a3) Number of reference frames: 3 -5 ?
more is always slightly better, but if you care at all about speed, 3-5 is good.
Quote:
a4) Number of b-frames: 2-3 would be
No. We don't have adaptive B-frames yet, so don't use more than 1.
Quote:
a5) I want to use somethimg like adaptive. Is -2 for both ok?
is this deblocking? yes, -2 is ok.
Quote:
a7) subpixel refinements: Always QPel brings highest quality?
Always QPel is the highest quality, but is only needed on the final encode. For the 1st pass you can set it to medium with negligible loss.
Quote:
a8) Macroblock options: Both for highest quality? b8*8mv and 4*4mv?
yes.

Quote:
b. 2 pass, second pass
Bitrate: Bitrate for a 1/3 DVD Rip? From a calculation tool?
You can set bitrate to whatever you want. That part of encoding hasn't suddenly changed with h264.

Quote:
3) Quant & RC
Buffer Size = Bitrate and I should activate "fix" ?
Don't touch buffer size unless you know what you're doing.
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Old 5th January 2005, 20:39   #36  |  Link
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Quote:
a1) Quantizer: 0 is highest quality? I want to encode 1/3 DVD.
quant=0 is a good way to end up with a reencode that's larger than the source. The lowest quants I'd normally consider using are in the 10-15 range.
Quote:
a3) Number of reference frames: 3 -5 ?
You can benefit slightly from using a higher number; the speed penalty is pretty minor and in my experience it practically never ends up raising bitrate (unless you turn off CABAC). Lately I usually just use 15. Be aware that 15 is usually only slightly better than 5, if it's better at all.
Quote:
a5) I want to use somethimg like adaptive. Is -2 for both ok?
x264 doesn't do adaptive deblocking, but you can tweak deblocking parameters. Don't expect any miracles. It's just a tradeoff of blockiness vs. loss of detail.
Quote:
a7) subpixel refinements: Always QPel brings highest quality?
It can never LOWER quality as it might in MPEG-4 ASP (assuming a given bitrate, that is). Asking for more subp refinement usually makes a significant difference. The difference between subq=1 vs subq=5 is often a couple percent in bitrate plus a little PSNR, but the speed difference is very big too.
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Old 5th January 2005, 22:11   #37  |  Link
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15 reference frames?!!! What good could possibly come of such an absurd number of refs? ;-) Man, dude, I'll try it out, heh...

But seriously...Why?

Just curious. As sheeps are, mind you.

Cheers, baa
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Old 5th January 2005, 22:18   #38  |  Link
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It wouldn't be too hard to contrive a scene in which it helps a lot to use 15 reference frames.

As for real-life source material, why don't you do some tests and find out?
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Old 5th January 2005, 23:00   #39  |  Link
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Results: for real movies, I have seen up to about 5% reduced bitrate for 4 refs vs 1, and up to 10% for 15 refs vs 1. (These comparisons run with no B-frames, all other options at max (cabac,subq=5))

While I haven't done a detailed study of how refs are actually used, I think I am qualified to guess. There are two uses for multiple reference frames:
One is to just find blocks that more closely match the current in a scene with somewhat chaotic motion (like most live-action). This produces only a few % difference in bitrate, but only requires a few ref frames (2-4).
The other is to encode scenes where one object obscures another but later moves out of the way. With sufficient refs, you can encode the backdrop as a mv from long ago, but without sufficient refs it has to be intra. This can benefit from any number of refs, easily up to 15 (and could use even more with long-term refs). The only limit is that at high numbers, it starts to get less efficient because of the number of bits required to encode which ref it used. (This is where CABAC helps. It could also be improved with adaptive ref marking and/or ref list reordering, whenever I get around to implementing those.)
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Old 6th January 2005, 04:42   #40  |  Link
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small letter "avc1" is indeed the four letter code defined by the mpeg-4 standard to signal avc streams in .mp4 (i think its comparable to .avis fourccs)
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