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Old 12th June 2024, 20:32   #64861  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
bandwidth is irrelevant in general "all" TV subsample and do other stupid stuff outside of PC mode/game mode. it depends not like i have checked the 2023 series at all. in the past samsung disengaged PC mode out of 30 and 60.
PC mode usually disables a lot of processing too if not all.

and my chroma obsession is next level anyway combined with my insane close sitting position...

a lot of LG OLED TVs are known to totally trash HDR in PC mode just the usual TV stuff... so it is sadly not generally a recommendation for most accurate and creators intend.
Bandwidth is relevant if you’re talking 4K100p and above as I did. Clearly you can’t keep 4:4:4 chroma if you don’t have the bandwidth to do so above 4K60.
All I can say is that 4K119p works here with PC mode and game mode disabled. There is no processing from the TV.
Obviously I’m only talking about recent models with HDMI 2.1 and I don’t care about LG, we were talking about Samsung.
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Old 13th June 2024, 01:37   #64862  |  Link
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HDMI 2.1 is standard in TV for like 4 years now and TVs had it in 2019.

the refreshrate doesn't matter in the past they where always subsampling except in PC mode (which could be disabled on Samsung depending on refreshrate as far as i know only Samsung does this).

even if they have the bandwidth they subsample it's just what they did. maybe motion interpolation only works at 422 i don't know but that's what they did in the past. if they stop doing that nice.

these information is hidden these days allm and such made stuff different and testing got worse.
the rtings review makes clear the LG c4 does need PC mode but for the Samsung 90c they say it can do it but nothing else. 120 is listed with 444 support but 144 is not... (bandwidth is not the issue)

do not forget samsung can motion interpolate in game mode. cause samsung...
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Old 13th June 2024, 10:20   #64863  |  Link
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HDMI 2.1 is standard in TV for like 4 years now and TVs had it in 2019.

the refreshrate doesn't matter in the past they where always subsampling except in PC mode (which could be disabled on Samsung depending on refreshrate as far as i know only Samsung does this).

even if they have the bandwidth they subsample it's just what they did. maybe motion interpolation only works at 422 i don't know but that's what they did in the past. if they stop doing that nice.

these information is hidden these days allm and such made stuff different and testing got worse.
the rtings review makes clear the LG c4 does need PC mode but for the Samsung 90c they say it can do it but nothing else. 120 is listed with 444 support but 144 is not... (bandwidth is not the issue)

do not forget samsung can motion interpolate in game mode. cause samsung...
Come on, bandwidth obviously matters if it’s not enough to allow 4:4:4 at high frame rates. My S90C, unlike the S95C, has full 48gbps bandwidth. I AM ONLY TALKING ABOUT RECENT SAMSUNG MODELS.

As I said, I have disabled both game mode and PC mode. It works fine at 100-119-120p and Samsung processing is entirely disabled. I’m doing this as a workaround for the motion bug introduced by Samsung in FW 1410.

Anyway, my intention was not to debate about these obvious things with you and bring up old models and other brands. I was only making a suggestion that it’s worth trying disabling PC mode and Game mode at 100p+ for video content and see if that resolves the OP’s problem.

I’m out of here.
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Last edited by Manni; 13th June 2024 at 10:24.
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Old 13th June 2024, 12:30   #64864  |  Link
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and i repeat again he has a sony TV.
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Old 13th June 2024, 20:14   #64865  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
As I said, I have disabled both game mode and PC mode. It works fine at 100-119-120p and Samsung processing is entirely disabled. Iím doing this as a workaround for the motion bug introduced by Samsung in FW 1410.
Technically, it still has dithering, so the processing isn't disabled disabled, but yea it doesn't do any really funky stuff.
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Old 15th June 2024, 18:26   #64866  |  Link
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and i repeat again he has a sony TV.
What? Both Sunspark and Tp4tissue were talking about Samsung, that's why I posted in the first place.

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Technically, it still has dithering, so the processing isn't disabled disabled, but yea it doesn't do any really funky stuff.
Glad it helped

I send 4K119p (for 23p content) in RGB 10bits, so there is no dithering I can see from the display (obviously the renderer dithers from the internal 16bits to 10nits). This is with a 3090. All I know is that in that mode, the TV processing options are greyed out and the motion bug introduced in fw 1410 is gone, which shows that at least *some* processing is disabled.
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Last edited by Manni; 15th June 2024 at 18:29.
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Old 19th June 2024, 10:02   #64867  |  Link
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Hiya, having quite a bit of a hard time getting any fullscreen to work on updated W11 with AMD Ryzen 5500GT APU, messing with various options always ends up in a black screen, OTOH windowed works. Anything I'm missing please?
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Old 19th June 2024, 10:32   #64868  |  Link
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FSE is simulated don't use it.
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Old 19th June 2024, 11:03   #64869  |  Link
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sadly FSW doesn't work either, will keep digging
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Old 19th June 2024, 11:20   #64870  |  Link
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you may used a time bombed version that is timed out?

it doesn't sound like a general black screen and windowed works that should be a clear no.

206-207 has horrible issue avoid if you are using that.
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Old 19th June 2024, 12:09   #64871  |  Link
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mVR version? I use latest mVR from this OP + W11 updated fully and legit, it's even activated and other VR's work in FS.
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Old 19th June 2024, 16:31   #64872  |  Link
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try 205 https://www.videohelp.com/software/madVR/old-versions
this version will work for another ~2 month or something.

the release version has issue with win 11 a black screen isn't usually one of them.

if it doesn't work give MPV a try.
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Old 20th June 2024, 12:55   #64873  |  Link
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FSE is simulated don't use it.
are you saying that FSE doesn't matter over FSW anymore on W11?
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Old 20th June 2024, 15:04   #64874  |  Link
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it's also windowed now. this was changed in win 10 at some point.
FSE does not exist anymore by default windows just lies to the application and doesn't give it an exclusive surface.

you can try compatible mode and disable full screen optimization to get the real FSE back but that can also fail spectacularly.
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Old 20th June 2024, 20:07   #64875  |  Link
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Fair enough thanks, any official word from madshi about this please? No bro-science? ^^

Apparently my black screen problems were partly due to the D3D skin of PotPlayer because as much as it worked wonders in D3D9 on W7, it won't work in D3D11 on W11 and mVR goes black screen in D3D9 on W11 so I'm trying to have it fixed in PotP but madshi appears AWOL so this might be a long shot and FSW does appear to work fine.
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Old 20th June 2024, 20:54   #64876  |  Link
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feel free to add it to the tracker. i have no clue if he knows about that.
this is unlikely to change.

i know other major bugs in the newer version it's just to much work to report just so it can say there forever.

the newest version broke SM so hard it will trigger epilepsy.
the current state is will be fixed in the next version which could be tomorrow or in 6 months.
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Old 20th June 2024, 21:34   #64877  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Manni View Post
What? Both Sunspark and Tp4tissue were talking about Samsung, that's why I posted in the first place.



Glad it helped

I send 4K119p (for 23p content) in RGB 10bits, so there is no dithering I can see from the display (obviously the renderer dithers from the internal 16bits to 10nits). This is with a 3090. All I know is that in that mode, the TV processing options are greyed out and the motion bug introduced in fw 1410 is gone, which shows that at least *some* processing is disabled.
mine subsamples outside game mode (it also subsamples in game mode! outside of 144 hz where it has other issues...).
Samsung removed PC mode at least i can not find it and subsampling can be beat other ways.

but all of this has to be taken with a huge grain of salt because mine is running 1402 and tells me that is the newest it will not update to 1410.1. i expect wonders from an update

if i change refershrate it will literally change the picture mode i'm not going more into this this has to be one of the worst bugs ever. nothing works the 20 point can not be used in game mode and it placed in the middle of the screen anyway.
it clips so many black level that displaycal doesn't let me calibrated because the difference between 0 and 16 is so low it thinks the level should be wrong...

game mode has more picture modes then normal mode they are just hidden for some reasons.

edit: game mode there is no PC mode

Last edited by huhn; 20th June 2024 at 22:12.
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Old 21st June 2024, 00:48   #64878  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
mine subsamples outside game mode (it also subsamples in game mode! outside of 144 hz where it has other issues...).
Samsung removed PC mode at least i can not find it and subsampling can be beat other ways.

but all of this has to be taken with a huge grain of salt because mine is running 1402 and tells me that is the newest it will not update to 1410.1. i expect wonders from an update

if i change refershrate it will literally change the picture mode i'm not going more into this this has to be one of the worst bugs ever. nothing works the 20 point can not be used in game mode and it placed in the middle of the screen anyway.
it clips so many black level that displaycal doesn't let me calibrated because the difference between 0 and 16 is so low it thinks the level should be wrong...

game mode has more picture modes then normal mode they are just hidden for some reasons.

edit: game mode there is no PC mode
Donít update from 1402 if you have a S9xC, 1410 and more recent break motion and there is no way back.
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Old 21st June 2024, 06:05   #64879  |  Link
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just like you i will use 100-144 hz where the issue will not matter.

i really hope it fixes other issues. this is really broken. it seems to sub sample in linear light making normal Chroma test pattern not that useful.

it currently clips 8 black level barely anything in there to fix that. i mean LG had a 22 point where the ext 22 points where just for close to black changes here i have a 2 point which is a 1 point calibration a tint i might say...
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Old 21st June 2024, 07:36   #64880  |  Link
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just like you i will use 100-144 hz where the issue will not matter.

i really hope it fixes other issues. this is really broken. it seems to sub sample in linear light making normal Chroma test pattern not that useful.

it currently clips 8 black level barely anything in there to fix that. i mean LG had a 22 point where the ext 22 points where just for close to black changes here i have a 2 point which is a 1 point calibration a tint i might say...
Which pattern do you use to test chroma? I used both S&M and the brown fox and I couldn’t see any damage with PC mode and game mode disabled (both are present) at 100+ fps. I don’t use desktop/gaming, but I didn’t notice any chroma issue on the desktop itself and video content looks pristine in FFM/MM.
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