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Old 27th March 2018, 17:32   #49901  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by Axelpowa View Post
Hi everybody!

I've been doing some tests lately with madvr and an oppo203 a friend let me few days.

Something very strange happens to me and I don't know if this is normal or not.

First of all, at the options for calibrating display in madvr, if I set a power curve gamma, the deeper I set the value in the Gamma field the more washed out it gets the image.
So far I know, the higher the gamma, darker it should get.

I use a JVC with a 2.4 gamma at the proyector settings. If I set a gamma of 2.2 in madvr it gets darker and if I set a 2.4 it washes out, if I set 2.6 it washes more.

Aslo regarding to sdr2020 conversion I detected something strange also. I like to test my settings with the last film of Harry Potter.

At arround 1h35 there is some scenes of high hdr content. Very bright images with lots of highlights.

With the oppo doing sdr2020 in this scenes there are a little magenta tones in the highlights.
In madvr this tones dont show up when doing sdr2020 and setting display calibrated to bt2020 , but if I set the display is not calibrated this tones show up exactly as the oppo does.

Also have detected this with faces and with yellow explosions or fire. At the oppo the magenta tint (very subtle) is present and in madvr sdr2020 with display calibrated to bt2020 they are missing.

Also with the color of Bumblebee in Transformers 5, it shows like a yellow lemon desaturated the tone and in oppo it shows a deeper yellow with more magenta mixed, the same as if I turn of the display calibration settings in madvr.

Regards!
What did you set HDR under devices to? This could alter the image as HDR -> SDR conversion is possible. I'm not sure if the Oppo does this. The image should be identical with native content.

Is it possible your display is calibrated to Rec.709 in SDR mode? When calibration controls are disabled, I think it defaults to Rec.709, but this has not been made clear. No display can do Rec.2020. It would be DCI-P3 at best. As for the gamma, any mismatch would alter the brightness. If you choose the correct value, it should be fine. But again, I think disabling calibration control defaults to a gamma of 2.20, so this is not clear either.
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Old 27th March 2018, 17:54   #49902  |  Link
Axelpowa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
What did you set HDR under devices to? This could alter the image as HDR -> SDR conversion is possible. I'm not sure if the Oppo does this. The image should be identical with native content.

Is it possible your display is calibrated to Rec.709 in SDR mode? When calibration controls are disabled, I think it defaults to Rec.709, but this has not been made clear. No display can do Rec.2020. It would be DCI-P3 at best. As for the gamma, any mismatch would alter the brightness. If you choose the correct value, it should be fine. But again, I think disabling calibration control defaults to a gamma of 2.20, so this is not clear either.
Hi,

Thanks for your answer.

Im setting in madvr hdr to sdr with pixel shader.
At my jvc I have a dedicated slot with gamma 2.4, color temperature 6500 and color profile bt2020.

Its just strange the thing with the gamma power curve.

With the oppo comparing with madcr who knows, they could use different algorithms sure, but to achieve the same result I have to tell madvr as if my display was rec709 instead of bt2020.

Regards!
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Old 27th March 2018, 18:33   #49903  |  Link
StinDaWg
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GTX 960. Latest drivers, latest Win10.

I set up a custom 2160p23 resolution in madVR. This gives a perfect 23.97600 with 1 frame drop every 1 day+.

After I reboot my pc and play a video the framerate changes to 23.978 and composition is listed as 23.980. I am using windowed fullscreen.

If I change madVR to full screen exclusive then the framerate goes back to the correct 23.97600. This is so frustrating. It will not play the correct framerate in windowed mode no matter what I do. I prefer windowed mode.

Is this an Nvidia bug? madVR? Windows?

Has this happened to anyone else?
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Old 27th March 2018, 18:57   #49904  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by Axelpowa View Post
Hi,

Thanks for your answer.

Im setting in madvr hdr to sdr with pixel shader.
At my jvc I have a dedicated slot with gamma 2.4, color temperature 6500 and color profile bt2020.

Its just strange the thing with the gamma power curve.

With the oppo comparing with madcr who knows, they could use different algorithms sure, but to achieve the same result I have to tell madvr as if my display was rec709 instead of bt2020.

Regards!
Did you enable gamma processing? According to Asmodian's guide, the gamma setting only matters if you enable gamma processing. This should be turned off.
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Old 27th March 2018, 19:21   #49905  |  Link
Axelpowa
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Did you enable gamma processing? According to Asmodian's guide, the gamma setting only matters if you enable gamma processing. This should be turned off.

I think not, but Im not sure right now.

So far I remember I have nothing active at the tab of color and gamma.

Regards!
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Old 27th March 2018, 20:26   #49906  |  Link
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I've been away for a while, but, I wanted to report back for those that care that the latest Windows 10 build (which is potentially going to be RTM) and today's nVidia driver have solved my 3D playback issues that I reported a few months ago when I started messing with insider builds. I still get frame drops which is sadly normal for my setup, but, the UI is no longer broken when playing a 3D movie. Hurray...I guess
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Old 27th March 2018, 21:13   #49907  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGlasspoole View Post
Win 8.1/Skylake-S (HD 530)
[...]
I tried the "madVR low-end preset for low-end GPUs such as Intel built-in GPUs" settings from LAV Filters Megamix (https://anime.my/tutorials/watching-...uda/#checklist) - which should be madVR default anyway.
Dropped frames all over the place...
Even on 4K H.264-AVC MPEG-4 [29.970fps][19Mbps][8bits]...
Show us the OSD (ctrl+j, then screenshot). Maybe RAM is too low? Then you can lower queue sizes (madvr settings -> "rendering" -> "general settings"). Or does this not happen because it can use the system RAM which is plenty?

Last edited by sneaker_ger; 27th March 2018 at 21:16.
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Old 27th March 2018, 22:27   #49908  |  Link
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8GB RAM and task manager says 38% usage.
MPC-HC CPU usage goes up to 70% with madVR and QS in LAV.
With copy-back it's ~45%

With EVR the Sony HEVC 59/60fps Videos work up until ~25 seconds and sometimes one minute. Then the sound starts to stutter and slowly the Frame rate in the MPC-HC statistics window is going down.

The attachment is:
4K H.264-AVC MPEG-4 [60.000fps][8-35Mbps][8bits][DD 5.1 (AC-3)] Big Buck Bunny
in madVR.

With EVR this movies video is smooth but sound is totally out of sync. Sync Offset, dropped and Jitter show all 0.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by MrGlasspoole; 27th March 2018 at 22:32.
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Old 27th March 2018, 22:53   #49909  |  Link
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Sorry guys to bang on about my colour issues again but DCP-P3 is defo not right, still far too red. I've found something else though which i'm hoping might give someone an idea whats going on and its an odd one... this problem stops and reverts colour too normal when I play a movie in 60hz instead of the correct res of 23,976, yup, WTF???

I first thought, well it must be invoking a different profile on my TV so I changed a few settings on 60hz, stopped the movie, went back to 23hz and the settings were still changed so its not a profile on my TV, surely someone must have an idea whats going on now?

anyone?


EDIT - just to make sure I wasnt going made, i've test EVR renderer in 23/60 hz, no issues so has to be an issue with MADVR, not sure what to do with this now, I cant watch everything in 60hz

Last edited by mclingo; 27th March 2018 at 23:06.
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Old 27th March 2018, 22:53   #49910  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by Axelpowa View Post
I think not, but Im not sure right now.

So far I remember I have nothing active at the tab of color and gamma.

Regards!
I found an old post from madshi that claims disable calibration controls sends the source gamut, so you shouldn't be too far off. That could have changed in subsequent builds.

I would suggest trying DCI-P3. Although your projector claims it is displaying Rec.2020, it is almost guaranteed it is less than 100% of DCI-P3. There is a fair difference between the size of the two gamuts.

If selecting DCI-P3 and turning off gamma processing doesn't fix anything, then I don't know what is going on.
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Old 27th March 2018, 23:15   #49911  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
I found an old post from madshi that claims disable calibration controls sends the source gamut, so you shouldn't be too far off. That could have changed in subsequent builds.

I would suggest trying DCI-P3. Although your projector claims it is displaying Rec.2020, it is almost guaranteed it is less than 100% of DCI-P3. There is a fair difference between the size of the two gamuts.

If selecting DCI-P3 and turning off gamma processing doesn't fix anything, then I don't know what is going on.
BT2020 is the correct setting on the JVC for HDR content. What counts is not the native gamut (it is true that the JVC reaches about DCI-P3, not BT2020), but the content is encoded into a BT2020 container, so to display it properly you have to select a BT2020 color profile, which will use BT2020 saturations. If you use DCI-P3, the color is right at the edge, but not inside the gamut. If you use BT2020, the color is right always (and clipped/tonemapped when it goes beyond the native capacity of the display).

DCI-P3 is irrelevant for consumer content. Unless you only use MadVR, which can convert to any gamut you want, BT2020 is the correct option.

So selecting DCI-P3 in MadVR would only be correct if a DCI-P3 calibration was made in the JVC, which isn't an option unless you create and upload with the Autocal software a specific DCI-P3 colour profile. Out of the box, the correct choice is therefore BT2020 if you want a wide color gamut, and so BT2020 should also be specified in MadVR, otherwise the colors will be wrong inside the gamut.
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Last edited by Manni; 27th March 2018 at 23:41.
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Old 27th March 2018, 23:35   #49912  |  Link
mclingo
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right.

I managed to finally get some decent shots of whats going on here and i'm right about BT2020 being the best fit on my setup, still no idea why.

check these out.

Left to right, (1) standard EVR render, (2) calibration off in MADVR, (3) calibration on in MADVR set to DCI-P3, (4) calibration on in MADVR set to BT3030

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1ob95e391...mage7.jpg?dl=0

Even with my mobile phones poor performance its managed to capture some differences in saturation at least, obviously in person the EVR and BT2020 look more natural than this.

Last edited by mclingo; 27th March 2018 at 23:49.
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Old 27th March 2018, 23:40   #49913  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by Manni View Post
BT2020 is the correct setting on the JVC for HDR content. What counts is not the native gamut (it is true that the JVC reaches about DCI-P3, not BT2020), but the content encoded into a BT2020 container, so to display it properly you have to select a BT2020 color profile, which will use BT2020 saturations. If you use DCI-P3, the color is right at the edge, but not inside the gamut. If you use BT2020, the color is right always (and clipped/tonemapped when it goes beyond the native capacity of the display).

DCI-P3 is irrelevant for consumer content. Unless you only use MadVR, which can convert to any gamut you want, BT2020 is the correct option.

So selecting DCI-P3 in MadVR would only be correct if a DCI-P3 calibration was made in the JVC, which isn't an option unless you create and upload with the Autocal software a specific DCI-P3 colour profile. Out of the box, the correct choice is therefore BT2020 if you want a wide color gamut, and so BT2020 should also be specified in MadVR, otherwise the colors will be wrong inside the gamut.
Ok, sounds convincing.
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Old 27th March 2018, 23:58   #49914  |  Link
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
Is this an Nvidia bug? madVR? Windows?
I'm using 390.77, I'd recommend giving that a shot.

Warner, can you calm down on your quoting? You can edit the quotes down in size like I did above.
I swear half this thread is useless full post quotes...

Last edited by ryrynz; 28th March 2018 at 00:01.
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Old 28th March 2018, 00:08   #49915  |  Link
maxkolonko123
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
This was covered in great length over the past couple of days. Set it to RGB to avoid color conversions and the loss of chroma upscaling when anything besides 4:4:4 is sent.
I think u didnt understood me

When i set PC label on lg and set full range RGB 8bit colors are fine, but they look same as YCbCr 422 10bit etc, like i dont see any difference.

When i set HDMI label on LG and set full RGB 8bit then black i way over dark, but when i set it to YCbCr 422 10bit or YCbCr 444 8bit its fine ( and the colors looks like full RGB on PC label )

So do you mean i should leave on PC label and set to full RGB 8bit ?

cheers
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Old 28th March 2018, 00:12   #49916  |  Link
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Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
right.

I managed to finally get some decent shots of whats going on here and i'm right about BT2020 being the best fit on my setup, still no idea why.

check these out.

Left to right, (1) standard EVR render, (2) calibration off in MADVR, (3) calibration on in MADVR set to DCI-P3, (4) calibration on in MADVR set to BT3030

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c1ob95e391...mage7.jpg?dl=0

Even with my mobile phones poor performance its managed to capture some differences in saturation at least, obviously in person the EVR and BT2020 look more natural than this.

EDIT, i've installed an ancient version of MADVR/LAV/AMD drivers, guess what, no longer broken, these are all from aug 2016.

so to see if it is MADVR I installed the latest MADVR on top of the old LAV/AMD drivers, broken again.

I'll see if I can work out at what point this broke in MADVR, MADSHI might then be able to work out what was done, might take me a while though so if anyone has an idea which version this problem started with please let me know.

I'm currently on V09024, will start working forwards.
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Old 28th March 2018, 00:24   #49917  |  Link
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ok, got that wrong, this old version of MADVR didnt have use DIRCT3D11 tick, it turns out this is actually whats causing the problem, eveything was ok until I ticked that, so there are now three ways to stop this problem,. 3 bits of evidence.


- Put my TV in PC mode - problems goes away
- turn off refresh rate switching and play movie at 60hz
- turn of use DIRECT3D11

I might be even more baffled now
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Old 28th March 2018, 00:26   #49918  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by maxkolonko123 View Post
When i set HDMI label on LG and set full RGB 8bit then black i way over dark, but when i set it to YCbCr 422 10bit or YCbCr 444 8bit its fine ( and the colors looks like full RGB on PC label )

So do you mean i should leave on PC label and set to full RGB 8bit ?

cheers
The idea is the same...

On the HDMI label of your display, change the HDMI black level to full range. This might be set by default on the PC label. The black level could have a number of names depending on the display, so you may have to search for it in the menus.

Then, set it as follows:

(madVR) RGB Full -> (GPU) RGB Full -> (Display) RGB Full

This treats your display as a PC monitor as it is connected to a PC.

As for your choice of bit depth, read the discussion that starts here: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...67#post1836967
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Old 28th March 2018, 00:47   #49919  |  Link
maxkolonko123
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
The idea is the same...

On the HDMI label of your display, change the HDMI black level to full range. This might be set by default on the PC label. The black level could have a number of names depending on the display, so you may have to search for it in the menus.

Then, set it as follows:

(madVR) RGB Full -> (GPU) RGB Full -> (Display) RGB Full

This treats your display as a PC monitor as it is connected to a PC.

As for your choice of bit depth, read the discussion that starts here: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...67#post1836967
Ok cool now it make sense, cause tbh with you buddy im kinda noobish in all this

Madvr i have set to RGB full, black levels are set to low on hdmi port.

One more question for you, i use my lg mostly for hdr/4k movies i dont do much playing at all, so would i benefit more from full RGB 8bit rather then YCbCr 422 10bit?
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Old 28th March 2018, 01:01   #49920  |  Link
Warner306
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One more question for you, i use my lg mostly for hdr/4k movies i dont do much playing at all, so would i benefit more from full RGB 8bit rather then YCbCr 422 10bit?
You can set your desktop to 8-bit RGB at 60Hz. Then play a movie with a 24 fps frame rate and return to the GPU control panel. Set it to 10/12-bits. That way, you don't have to compromise. The desktop remains at RGB Full and video playback remains at RGB Full; and the video playback is at 10-bits, not 8-bits.
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