Custom Quantization Matrix Editor 1.0 - Page 3

DDogg · 7th May 2004, 15:03

Could somebody mirror these files?

/Add: I posted some results of using different matrices with CCE. The 6of9 showes a rather large increase of filesize. I'm wondering if the matrices you guys used are specific to XVid? Also, the matrix that gives one of the best compressions in MPEG2 is one called Bach1. I also wonder what effect it might have on XVid encodes?

Bach1

Code:

  8, 16, 19, 22, 26, 27, 29, 34
 16, 16, 22, 24, 27, 29, 34, 37
 19, 22, 26, 27, 29, 34, 34, 38
 22, 22, 26, 27, 29, 34, 37, 40
 22, 26, 27, 29, 32, 35, 40, 48
 26, 27, 29, 32, 35, 40, 48, 58
 26, 27, 29, 34, 38, 46, 56, 69
 27, 29, 35, 38, 46, 56, 69, 83

 16, 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30
 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30, 32
 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30, 32, 34
 22, 24, 26, 30, 32, 32, 34, 36
 24, 26, 28, 32, 34, 34, 36, 38
 26, 28, 30, 32, 34, 36, 38, 40
 28, 30, 32, 34, 36, 38, 42, 42
 30, 32, 34, 36, 38, 40, 42, 44

LigH · 7th May 2004, 21:36

I'll have to kill my ffdshow mirror - someone is downloading there like hell, and this kills my ratio somehow...

DDogg · 7th May 2004, 21:53

LigH, you did a terrific job on this utility. You shouldn't let these XVid guys keep it all a secret

. Love the way it handles TMPG and CCE. That used to be such a pain to do by hand.

One very trivial thing for the list, I noticed when exporting to CCE 2.62 + you have to put a space in dialog to activate the OK button. No problem doing it, but at first glance I thought this feature was not available, so it might confuse somebody just starting to use it.

Thanks again for doing such a professional job on a utility this whole community can use.

acrespo · 7th May 2004, 21:56

I can't get matrix editor, link is broken. Can anybody send to acrespo@wasbr.com pleas?

Teegedeck · 7th May 2004, 22:22

Quote:

Originally posted by DDogg
The 6of9 showes a rather large increase of filesize. I'm wondering if the matrices you guys used are specific to XVid?

Hi DDogg,

SixOfNine's quality at quant=3 is better than, for example, HVS-best-picture at quant=2; thus you should do a compressiblity-test with it at quant=3 (a first pass with 6of9 should be done at quant=3, also). Didée's idea with 6of9 was to have smaller, more accurate quantization steps and I guess this is mainly responsible for it.

That aside, quant=2 with 6of9 is well possible for '3-CD' (=half a DVD-R) encodes and looks quite marvellous. With XviD, that is; I suppose with MPEG-2 quant=2 the result will become too large.

BTW, it would be great if a piece of software could show us, how a matrix 'scales' at different quantizers...(*cough*) Perhaps we would find out that Bach's matrix at quant=3 has the same effect as HVS-best at quant=2 or something like that.

Soulhunter · 7th May 2004, 22:35

Hmm, 2Pass encoding (low/med/high bitrates) followed by a PSNR test would be nice...

If nobody else wants to do this, I could do it the next weeks !!!

Thought about this...

Matrix lobby shootout (as usually) @ 1000/2000/3000 kbps

Suggestions for settings etc. ???

Bye

Teegedeck · 7th May 2004, 23:27

Use every feature and the kitchen-sink, of course.

(Just trying to push those encoding times to the max, again...)

Soulhunter · 7th May 2004, 23:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Teegedeck
Just trying to push those encoding times to the max, again...

About 5 min. for each pass @ VHQ1 !!!

So, with 3 different bitrates about 25 minutes...

Using 10 matrices would give estimated 6 hours (including setup n' PSNR tests) !!!

Bye

Soulhunter · 8th May 2004, 00:20

Btw, after reading DDogg's test I did this here...

Source:

The Matrix - Lobby Shootout / 3:07 min. @ 25fps / 1024x576 pix. (Lanczos)

XviD v.1 RC4 (Koepis) / Quantizer2 / No B-VOP's / VHQ 1

Results:

Matrix: Fox Home Entertainment / Filesize: 365.252.608 Bytes

Matrix: SemiInsane / Filesize: 338.434.048 Bytes

Matrix: Selur - High datarate / Filesize: 261.918.720 Bytes

Matrix: Selur's Matrix / Filesize: 260.757.504 Bytes

Matrix: Didees SixOfNine Max=20 / Filesize: 236.367.872 Bytes

Matrix: Didees SixOfNine Max=24 / Filesize: 235.177.984 Bytes

Matrix: Acaila's / Filesize: 228.622.336 Bytes

Matrix: Andreas 78er / Filesize: 195.287.040 Bytes

Matrix: Soulhunters (v3) / Filesize: 194.543.616 Bytes

Matrix: Soulhunters (v4) / Filesize: 160.976.896 Bytes

Matrix: HVS Best Picture / Filesize: 159.289.344 Bytes

Matrix: Standard MPEG / Filesize: 150.237.184 Bytes

Matrix: HVS Better Picture / Filesize: 140.699.648 Bytes

Matrix: HVS Good Picture / Filesize: 136.632.320 Bytes

Matrix: Standard H.263 / Filesize: 130.297.856 Bytes

Matrix: Bach1 / Filesize: 128.780.288 Bytes (update)

Matrix: Jawor 1CD Matrix / Filesize: 121.341.952 Bytes (update)

Matrix: AVAMAT6 / Filesize: 106.104.832 Bytes

Matrix: Bulletproof's Heavy Compression / Filesize: 101.152.768 Bytes

Matrix: Ultimate Matrix / Filesize: 93.820.928 Bytes

Bye

DDogg · 8th May 2004, 03:20

Soulhunter, I think I am seeing some direct relationships as I had also done 6of9-20 and Acaila's. They fell in the same relationship you are showing. I wonder if you can add Bach1 (listed above) and Jawors' to you list. I think they will fall the same place in your list and mine. If so, we have a correlation (somewhat) of techniques between Mpeg4 and Mpeg2 which might prove to have some value.

acrespo · 8th May 2004, 04:05

Soulhunter: I didn't understand the conclusions of your test. Bigger size means better quality?

I need the best matrix for quality encodes of anime series (20 minutes each episode), with 640x480 and 175 Mbytes size.

I tried your Soulhunter anime, Jawor and H.263. The best is H.263!!!

I set xvid RC4 to no B-VOP, trellis, chroma motion and optimizer, vhq 1.

Soulhunter · 8th May 2004, 17:34

Quote:

Originally posted by DDogg
I wonder if you can add Bach1 (listed above) and Jawors' to you list.

Done...

Quote:

Originally posted by acrespo
Soulhunter: I didn't understand the conclusions of your test. Bigger size means better quality?

Nah, it only shows the maximum quality you can reach !!!

But that does mean nothing...

Quote:

Originally posted by acrespo
I need the best matrix for quality encodes of anime series (20 minutes each episode), with 640x480 and 175 Bytes size.

I tried your Soulhunter anime, Jawor and H.263. The best is H.263!!!

I set XviD RC4 to no B-VOP, trellis, chroma motion and optimizer, VHQ 1.

Ok, that means around 1100kbps for the video (assuming 128kbps audio here) !!!

1st. Each matrix is case/source sensitive...

2nd. I made my matrix not for such low bitrates !!!

3rd. Try to use B-VOP's for this kind of encodes...

Bye

acrespo · 8th May 2004, 20:46

Soulhunter: I did some tests with B-VOP (1/1/1) and the quality really improve with your matrix and jawor, better than H263. I am doing tests with VHQ4 now, but the time for 2nd pass is really long (2hs instead 45 min with vhq1).

LigH · 9th May 2004, 20:35

@ acrespo:

My ffdshow / XviD mirror killed my bandwidth, someone downloaded from there like hell - I'll have to remove it; but unfortunately, I'm not able to access my server part at the moment, I'll have to contact my provider as soon as possible. Hopefully tomorrow it may be repaired...
__

@ DDogg:

Would you mind asking the right person for hosting it at doom9 Downloads? Or do you have something else in mind (e.g. moving the thread)? Please forgive me, but english is not my main language - I might miss some background thoughts hidden deeply in your answer...

Soulhunter · 9th May 2004, 21:30

@DDogg

Sorry, my first update was wrong...

I took the results from my 1024x768 encodes I do atm !!!

Have them updated again to fix this...

Bye

DDogg · 10th May 2004, 02:51

LigH, i will sure ask Doom9 to consider hosting it. It is fine work and all encoders of all MPx persuasions can benefit from using it and having it easily available.

Soulhunter, thanks, so I was not going nuts after all! :-D

kilg0r3 · 10th May 2004, 14:35

hi, one thing I would really like to see is a matrix explorer/browser. Currently one has to load matrices one by one in order to see what is 'inside'.

I imagine /dream of a second window which lists all the matrix files that are the current directory. One of thise is highlighted and the corresponding matrix is displayed in the right 'editor window'. And, 'of course', if you push the 'down-arrow' the next file is highlihted and the editor window updates to the 'content of this next file. Just dreaming ...

Soulhunter · 11th May 2004, 00:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Soulhunter
Hmm, 2Pass encoding (low/med/high bitrates) followed by a PSNR test would be nice...

If nobody else wants to do this, I could do it the next weeks !!!

Ok, its already done...

Bye

kilg0r3 · 11th May 2004, 07:34

Based on Soulhunter's results, I'd say, we could use an 'increase all cells by one' button in the editor

mrbass · 12th May 2004, 03:17

Quote:

Originally posted by DDogg
[B]Could somebody mirror these files?

I mirrored them on the frontpage May 11th entry

7th May 2004, 15:03	#41 \| Link
DDogg Retired, but still around Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Lone Star Posts: 3,058	Could somebody mirror these files? /Add: I posted some results of using different matrices with CCE. The 6of9 showes a rather large increase of filesize. I'm wondering if the matrices you guys used are specific to XVid? Also, the matrix that gives one of the best compressions in MPEG2 is one called Bach1. I also wonder what effect it might have on XVid encodes? Bach1 Code: 8, 16, 19, 22, 26, 27, 29, 34 16, 16, 22, 24, 27, 29, 34, 37 19, 22, 26, 27, 29, 34, 34, 38 22, 22, 26, 27, 29, 34, 37, 40 22, 26, 27, 29, 32, 35, 40, 48 26, 27, 29, 32, 35, 40, 48, 58 26, 27, 29, 34, 38, 46, 56, 69 27, 29, 35, 38, 46, 56, 69, 83 16, 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30, 32 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30, 32, 34 22, 24, 26, 30, 32, 32, 34, 36 24, 26, 28, 32, 34, 34, 36, 38 26, 28, 30, 32, 34, 36, 38, 40 28, 30, 32, 34, 36, 38, 42, 42 30, 32, 34, 36, 38, 40, 42, 44 __________________ How to Optimize Bitrate for CCE multipass Last edited by DDogg; 7th May 2004 at 18:11.

7th May 2004, 21:53	#43 \| Link
DDogg Retired, but still around Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Lone Star Posts: 3,058	LigH, you did a terrific job on this utility. You shouldn't let these XVid guys keep it all a secret . Love the way it handles TMPG and CCE. That used to be such a pain to do by hand. One very trivial thing for the list, I noticed when exporting to CCE 2.62 + you have to put a space in dialog to activate the OK button. No problem doing it, but at first glance I thought this feature was not available, so it might confuse somebody just starting to use it. Thanks again for doing such a professional job on a utility this whole community can use. __________________ How to Optimize Bitrate for CCE multipass

7th May 2004, 21:56	#44 \| Link
acrespo Brazilian Anime Ripper Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Brazil Posts: 237	I can't get matrix editor, link is broken. Can anybody send to acrespo@wasbr.com pleas? __________________ Capture cards: Compro VideoMate Gold+ (Philips SAA7134 based) (not active) Hauppauge PVR 150MCE (not active) ATI TV Wonder Elite (active)

7th May 2004, 22:35	#46 \| Link
Soulhunter Bored... Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Unknown Posts: 2,812	Hmm, 2Pass encoding (low/med/high bitrates) followed by a PSNR test would be nice... If nobody else wants to do this, I could do it the next weeks !!! Thought about this... Matrix lobby shootout (as usually) @ 1000/2000/3000 kbps Suggestions for settings etc. ??? Bye __________________ Visit my IRC channel Last edited by Soulhunter; 7th May 2004 at 22:37.

7th May 2004, 23:27	#47 \| Link
Teegedeck Moderator, Ex(viD)-Mascot Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 2,564	Use every feature and the kitchen-sink, of course. (Just trying to push those encoding times to the max, again...) __________________ It's a man's life in Doom9's 52nd MPEG division. "The cat sat on the mat." ATM I'm thoroughly enjoying the Banshee - a fantastic music player/ripper for Linux. Give it a whirl!

7th May 2004, 21:36	#42 \| Link
LigH German doom9/Gleitz SuMo Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Germany, rural Altmark Posts: 6,782	I'll have to kill my ffdshow mirror - someone is downloading there like hell, and this kills my ratio somehow...

8th May 2004, 00:20	#49 \| Link
Soulhunter Bored... Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Unknown Posts: 2,812	Btw, after reading DDogg's test I did this here... Source: The Matrix - Lobby Shootout / 3:07 min. @ 25fps / 1024x576 pix. (Lanczos) XviD v.1 RC4 (Koepis) / Quantizer2 / No B-VOP's / VHQ 1 Results: Matrix: Fox Home Entertainment / Filesize: 365.252.608 Bytes Matrix: SemiInsane / Filesize: 338.434.048 Bytes Matrix: Selur - High datarate / Filesize: 261.918.720 Bytes Matrix: Selur's Matrix / Filesize: 260.757.504 Bytes Matrix: Didees SixOfNine Max=20 / Filesize: 236.367.872 Bytes Matrix: Didees SixOfNine Max=24 / Filesize: 235.177.984 Bytes Matrix: Acaila's / Filesize: 228.622.336 Bytes Matrix: Andreas 78er / Filesize: 195.287.040 Bytes Matrix: Soulhunters (v3) / Filesize: 194.543.616 Bytes Matrix: Soulhunters (v4) / Filesize: 160.976.896 Bytes Matrix: HVS Best Picture / Filesize: 159.289.344 Bytes Matrix: Standard MPEG / Filesize: 150.237.184 Bytes Matrix: HVS Better Picture / Filesize: 140.699.648 Bytes Matrix: HVS Good Picture / Filesize: 136.632.320 Bytes Matrix: Standard H.263 / Filesize: 130.297.856 Bytes Matrix: Bach1 / Filesize: 128.780.288 Bytes (update) Matrix: Jawor 1CD Matrix / Filesize: 121.341.952 Bytes (update) Matrix: AVAMAT6 / Filesize: 106.104.832 Bytes Matrix: Bulletproof's Heavy Compression / Filesize: 101.152.768 Bytes Matrix: Ultimate Matrix / Filesize: 93.820.928 Bytes Bye __________________ Visit my IRC channel Last edited by Soulhunter; 9th May 2004 at 21:30.

8th May 2004, 03:20	#50 \| Link
DDogg Retired, but still around Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Lone Star Posts: 3,058	Soulhunter, I think I am seeing some direct relationships as I had also done 6of9-20 and Acaila's. They fell in the same relationship you are showing. I wonder if you can add Bach1 (listed above) and Jawors' to you list. I think they will fall the same place in your list and mine. If so, we have a correlation (somewhat) of techniques between Mpeg4 and Mpeg2 which might prove to have some value. __________________ How to Optimize Bitrate for CCE multipass

8th May 2004, 04:05	#51 \| Link
acrespo Brazilian Anime Ripper Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Brazil Posts: 237	Soulhunter: I didn't understand the conclusions of your test. Bigger size means better quality? I need the best matrix for quality encodes of anime series (20 minutes each episode), with 640x480 and 175 Mbytes size. I tried your Soulhunter anime, Jawor and H.263. The best is H.263!!! I set xvid RC4 to no B-VOP, trellis, chroma motion and optimizer, vhq 1. __________________ Capture cards: Compro VideoMate Gold+ (Philips SAA7134 based) (not active) Hauppauge PVR 150MCE (not active) ATI TV Wonder Elite (active)

8th May 2004, 20:46	#53 \| Link
acrespo Brazilian Anime Ripper Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Brazil Posts: 237	Soulhunter: I did some tests with B-VOP (1/1/1) and the quality really improve with your matrix and jawor, better than H263. I am doing tests with VHQ4 now, but the time for 2nd pass is really long (2hs instead 45 min with vhq1). __________________ Capture cards: Compro VideoMate Gold+ (Philips SAA7134 based) (not active) Hauppauge PVR 150MCE (not active) ATI TV Wonder Elite (active)

9th May 2004, 20:35	#54 \| Link
LigH German doom9/Gleitz SuMo Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Germany, rural Altmark Posts: 6,782	@ acrespo: My ffdshow / XviD mirror killed my bandwidth, someone downloaded from there like hell - I'll have to remove it; but unfortunately, I'm not able to access my server part at the moment, I'll have to contact my provider as soon as possible. Hopefully tomorrow it may be repaired... __ @ DDogg: Would you mind asking the right person for hosting it at doom9 Downloads? Or do you have something else in mind (e.g. moving the thread)? Please forgive me, but english is not my main language - I might miss some background thoughts hidden deeply in your answer... Last edited by LigH; 9th May 2004 at 20:41.

9th May 2004, 21:30	#55 \| Link
Soulhunter Bored... Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Unknown Posts: 2,812	@DDogg Sorry, my first update was wrong... I took the results from my 1024x768 encodes I do atm !!! Have them updated again to fix this... Bye __________________ Visit my IRC channel

10th May 2004, 02:51	#56 \| Link
DDogg Retired, but still around Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Lone Star Posts: 3,058	LigH, i will sure ask Doom9 to consider hosting it. It is fine work and all encoders of all MPx persuasions can benefit from using it and having it easily available. Soulhunter, thanks, so I was not going nuts after all! :-D __________________ How to Optimize Bitrate for CCE multipass

10th May 2004, 14:35	#57 \| Link
kilg0r3 ! - User - ! Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,081	Feature Request hi, one thing I would really like to see is a matrix explorer/browser. Currently one has to load matrices one by one in order to see what is 'inside'. I imagine /dream of a second window which lists all the matrix files that are the current directory. One of thise is highlighted and the corresponding matrix is displayed in the right 'editor window'. And, 'of course', if you push the 'down-arrow' the next file is highlihted and the editor window updates to the 'content of this next file. Just dreaming ... __________________ Keep your tone warm and your sigs decent!

11th May 2004, 07:34	#59 \| Link
kilg0r3 ! - User - ! Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,081	Based on Soulhunter's results, I'd say, we could use an 'increase all cells by one' button in the editor __________________ Keep your tone warm and your sigs decent!