Pulldown of 25 fps to NTSC - Page 10

daveidmx · 18th February 2005, 18:17

@Inwards
What is the "correct" behavior? I'll need to be writing the drop-frame thing soon.

Also, did you get my PM regarding the source? When I compiled pulldown.exe the result exits abnormally after a a few GOPs on this source I have. Well I suppose it doesn't matter at this point, I've already set about writing a new stream parsing architecture.

Guest · 18th February 2005, 18:25

Here is beta 4. It has normal 3:2 pulldown, a progress bar, and source code.

http://neuron2.net/dgpulldown/dgpulldown.html

Now I'll catch up on the recent posts...

EDIT: Duh, I don't need stream ID anymore. I'll get rid of it.

EDIT2: Modified the link to beta 4.

Guest · 18th February 2005, 18:49

Quote:

Originally posted by digidragon
Which encoding is most likely to behave better on a true NTSC DVD player and TV? I only have a PAL TV and PAL DVD player with which to test the NTSC DVDs...

You encode at 25fps progressive as we've said. It's irrelevant what GSpot thinks of the resulting file. Is there some specific setting that you are in doubt about?

Guest · 18th February 2005, 18:50

Thank you, Inwards, for the explanation. The next version will support timecodes and drop frames.

digidragon · 18th February 2005, 19:58

Quote:

Originally posted by neuron2
You encode at 25fps progressive as we've said. It's irrelevant what GSpot thinks of the resulting file. Is there some specific setting that you are in doubt about?

Well, just the fact that when I play the pulled down mpv files in media player classic (using its own filters) or vlc player, the TMPGEnc one plays jerkily, whereas the mainconcept one plays fine.

Paulcat · 18th February 2005, 22:42

n2,

I appreciate the work you are doing on this, but I have a complete lack of understanding of avisynth and scripting (assuming I have some free time before I die, I might have to remedy that, but I'm pushing 40 this year and it's pushing back!!).

All I need to use your pulldown program is a progressive, 720x480, 25 frame per second MPEG2 stream, correct?

Tmpgenc can give me a progressive, 25fps, 720x480 mpeg2 video stream, so basically I shouldn't have to use avisynth (which I don't understand) correct? I'm not terribly concerned about a small loss in quality (or menus!).

I'll try this tonight with a few short clips and see what happens. By the way, how fast is DGPulldown?

Jeffster · 18th February 2005, 22:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Inwards

Also, CCESP seems to refeuse to create a 25fps 720x480 MPEG-2. Instead, it insists on resizing it PAL. TMPGEnc seems to work fine, though.

Disable the DVD compliant option in CCE or it will, er... force it to DVD specs (in your case padding to 576).

mrslacker · 18th February 2005, 22:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Paulcat
Tmpgenc can give me a progressive, 25fps, 720x480 mpeg2 video stream, so basically I shouldn't have to use avisynth (which I don't understand) correct? I'm not terribly concerned about a small loss in quality (or menus!).

I'll try this tonight with a few short clips and see what happens. By the way, how fast is DGPulldown?

Tmpgenc should handle the resizing properly if you give it the right options. I haven't tried it yet.

DGPulldown is just about as fast as your hard drive. The frames themselves are not processed.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeffster
Disable the DVD compliant option in CCE or it will, er... force it to DVD specs (in your case padding to 576).

Good call!

Inwards · 19th February 2005, 01:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeffster
Disable the DVD compliant option in CCE or it will, er... force it to DVD specs (in your case padding to 576).

Tried that. Still no joy.

Guest · 19th February 2005, 03:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Paulcat
All I need to use your pulldown program is a progressive, 720x480, 25 frame per second MPEG2 stream, correct?

It doesn't have to be 720x480, unless you want to author a DVD.

Quote:

Tmpgenc can give me a progressive, 25fps, 720x480 mpeg2 video stream, so basically I shouldn't have to use avisynth (which I don't understand) correct?

The input to TMPGEnc should be 25fps progressive. You don't want it to convert frame rates.

Quote:

By the way, how fast is DGPulldown?

Fast enough, I hope.

Paulcat · 19th February 2005, 05:47

I have been messing about tonight trying a few things.

I started with a PAL video stream, 720x576 (16:9), 25 fps, interlaced, and using tmpgenc ended up with an 'ntsc' video stream at 720x480, 25 fps, and progressive. I also created a second file the same as above with a framerate of 29.976 using tmpgenc.

The file with the 25 fps framerate ran nice and smooth on the computer, while the file with the 29.976 framerate showed some jerkiness (tmpgenc would appear to duplicate every 5th frame or so to bump 25 fps up to 29.976 fps rather than alter the flags).

I then took the 25 fps file and used DGPulldown (beta 4) and ended up with a third file, with a framerate of 29.976, and lo and behold it showed the same jerkiness as the one made with tmpgenc!

Granted, using DGPulldown will give me a smaller file, and allow me a higher bitrate when encoding for a new ntsc dvd, but it does not appear to alter the look of the video itself, it still does not play smoothly.

( I have attached the tmpgenc profile that I used in case anyone is interested, it will have to be cleared by Mr. Moderator...)

Guest · 19th February 2005, 06:20

Did you enable TMPGEnc's deinterlacer? I said the video has to be progressive. Just because you set progressive encoding, that doesn't make the video "really" progressive.

digidragon · 19th February 2005, 07:19

As you seem familiar with TMPGEnc, can you comment on the jerkiness of that encoder's mpv file when run through DGPulldown?

As I said, the mainconcept file has no jerkiness, but I'd prefer to use TMPGEnc as the quality looks slightly better to me.

Guest · 19th February 2005, 07:29

Quote:

Originally posted by digidragon
As you seem familiar with TMPGEnc, can you comment on the jerkiness of that encoder's mpv file when run through DGPulldown?

As I said, the mainconcept file has no jerkiness, but I'd prefer to use TMPGEnc as the quality looks slightly better to me.

I'm not having any problems with jerkiness with TMPGEnc. Can you post your video settings?

digidragon · 19th February 2005, 07:45

These are the settings that I used. Maybe jerkiness is the wrong word, it looks more like a low frame rate (say 12fps) when played in MPC or VLC.

EDIT: the previous list wasn't very easy to follow, so I replaced it with screenshots...

jptheripper · 19th February 2005, 15:18

inwards.

for me at least cce makes 720x480 25fps movies fine.

generate your d2v file

in your avs script
load d2v
lanzcosresize or bicubicresize to 720x480

make no adjustments to framerate

process

all done.

scharfis_brain · 19th February 2005, 15:40

I cannot test DGPulldown here, because my TV is not able to display 60 Hertz.

Is DGPulldown fixed to a width of 720 pixels or are the other DVD-conform widths of 704 & 352 pixels possible, too?

Can a SVCD contain rff-flags, too? (like DVD)
And what about VCD? (certainly impossible)

Guest · 19th February 2005, 16:14

@digidragon

I don't see any obvious problem. I can try with your source if you like. If it works smooth I'll give you my template that does it.

@scharfis_brain

DGPulldown doesn't care a wit about width, nor does he change it in any way. You can use anything you like as long as your authoring program is happy. SVCD is MPEG2 so it should theoretically be possible.

mean · 19th February 2005, 16:14

SVCD : yes
VCD: no, mpeg1 does only progressive encoding

digidragon · 19th February 2005, 16:41

Quote:

Originally posted by neuron2
@digidragon

I don't see any obvious problem. I can try with your source if you like. If it works smooth I'll give you my template that does it.

Thanks. I'm uploading the mpeg, called digidragon.mpg, at the moment.

18th February 2005, 18:25	#182 \| Link
Guest Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 21,901	Here is beta 4. It has normal 3:2 pulldown, a progress bar, and source code. http://neuron2.net/dgpulldown/dgpulldown.html Now I'll catch up on the recent posts... EDIT: Duh, I don't need stream ID anymore. I'll get rid of it. EDIT2: Modified the link to beta 4. Last edited by Guest; 18th February 2005 at 18:39.

18th February 2005, 22:42	#186 \| Link
Paulcat Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Great White North Posts: 326	More stupid questions, sigh... n2, I appreciate the work you are doing on this, but I have a complete lack of understanding of avisynth and scripting (assuming I have some free time before I die, I might have to remedy that, but I'm pushing 40 this year and it's pushing back!!). All I need to use your pulldown program is a progressive, 720x480, 25 frame per second MPEG2 stream, correct? Tmpgenc can give me a progressive, 25fps, 720x480 mpeg2 video stream, so basically I shouldn't have to use avisynth (which I don't understand) correct? I'm not terribly concerned about a small loss in quality (or menus!). I'll try this tonight with a few short clips and see what happens. By the way, how fast is DGPulldown?

19th February 2005, 07:45	#195 \| Link
digidragon Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: UK Posts: 147	These are the settings that I used. Maybe jerkiness is the wrong word, it looks more like a low frame rate (say 12fps) when played in MPC or VLC. EDIT: the previous list wasn't very easy to follow, so I replaced it with screenshots... Last edited by digidragon; 19th February 2005 at 15:42.

19th February 2005, 15:40	#197 \| Link
scharfis_brain brainless Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 3,653	I cannot test DGPulldown here, because my TV is not able to display 60 Hertz. Is DGPulldown fixed to a width of 720 pixels or are the other DVD-conform widths of 704 & 352 pixels possible, too? Can a SVCD contain rff-flags, too? (like DVD) And what about VCD? (certainly impossible) __________________ Don't forget the 'c'! Don't PM me for technical support, please.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

18th February 2005, 18:17	#181 \| Link
daveidmx Just One Calorie Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 112	@Inwards What is the "correct" behavior? I'll need to be writing the drop-frame thing soon. Also, did you get my PM regarding the source? When I compiled pulldown.exe the result exits abnormally after a a few GOPs on this source I have. Well I suppose it doesn't matter at this point, I've already set about writing a new stream parsing architecture.

18th February 2005, 18:50	#184 \| Link
Guest Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 21,901	Thank you, Inwards, for the explanation. The next version will support timecodes and drop frames.

19th February 2005, 06:20	#192 \| Link
Guest Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 21,901	Did you enable TMPGEnc's deinterlacer? I said the video has to be progressive. Just because you set progressive encoding, that doesn't make the video "really" progressive.

19th February 2005, 07:19	#193 \| Link
digidragon Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: UK Posts: 147	As you seem familiar with TMPGEnc, can you comment on the jerkiness of that encoder's mpv file when run through DGPulldown? As I said, the mainconcept file has no jerkiness, but I'd prefer to use TMPGEnc as the quality looks slightly better to me.

19th February 2005, 15:18	#196 \| Link
jptheripper Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 911	inwards. for me at least cce makes 720x480 25fps movies fine. generate your d2v file in your avs script load d2v lanzcosresize or bicubicresize to 720x480 make no adjustments to framerate process all done.

19th February 2005, 16:14	#198 \| Link
Guest Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 21,901	@digidragon I don't see any obvious problem. I can try with your source if you like. If it works smooth I'll give you my template that does it. @scharfis_brain DGPulldown doesn't care a wit about width, nor does he change it in any way. You can use anything you like as long as your authoring program is happy. SVCD is MPEG2 so it should theoretically be possible.

19th February 2005, 16:14	#199 \| Link
mean Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 206	SVCD : yes VCD: no, mpeg1 does only progressive encoding