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Old 22nd February 2004, 23:02   #1  |  Link
Marcel
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RealHandy 0.4.0: Encode RV8 content for Nokia Series 60 mobiles

Summary:
RealHandy v. 0.4.0 (475kB), GUI for encoding video and audio clips for Nokia Series 60 mobile phones (N-Gage, 3650, 3660, 6600, 7650).
Needs Real Producer and AviSynth 2.5 to be installed.


Whole story:
Coming from the DivX/XVid-Corner, my Nokia 3650 and its preinstalled Realplayer for Mobile threw me on the green - now I'm addicted to RealMedia (like some others already are).

The first result - besides many encoded clips, some bad, some worse - is my own GUI.
For now, it basically supports encoding of video+audio and audio only clips. To make encoding easier and the results better, I'll have to gain much more experiences with Real Producer.
Maybe it's useful for somebody, or just FYI, here it is:Real Handy v. 0.4.0 (475kB). You need to have the Real Producer installed.

The initial project title, "Moby Clip", was discarded, because a video encoding / playing solution for Nokia Series 60 devices called "Mobil Clip" already exists (whose encoding application requires .NET framework, so I didn't install it). I renamed it to "RealHandy", as "handy" is not just an english word, but also the term used in germany to name a mobile phone. But if someone has got a better idea, proposals are welcome ...

This application is no competitor to RealAnime or any other GUI. My project is aiming at encoding clips 100% compatible to Nokia Series 60 devices (Audio: RealAudio G2, RealAudio 8 and Sipro Voice codecs up to 64kbps; Video: RealVideo G2 and RealVideo 8 up to 80kbps, max. 172x128 pixels) with the best ease-of-use. If other GUIs offer a similar comfort in this, I might cancel this project.

How-To
Start with your source file:
  • MPEG1 and AVI files are accepted as-is
  • For MPEG2 files (.mpg, .m2v, .vob), you have to create a DVD2AVI file first and demux the desired audio stream. First drag and drop the .d2v, then the demuxed audio file onto the green "drop here"-window
  • Wave and MP3 files are accepted as-is
If you are encoding video, then you might want to crop black borders from the source and eventually reduce the framerate, especially for content with 4:3-like aspect ratio. The source aspect ratio is detected automatically, but you might want to correct it and let me know about that, if RealHandy did wrong. This aspect ratio is needed for a proper resize statement in the AviSynth script.
After that, create the AviSynth script with a single click on "Create script!". Now you might edit the script. When you're ready, click on "Save script and add to Prepared Video Encode files". This will lead you to that tab, where you can adjust some settings for Real Producer / Helix Producer.

History

v.0.4.0
- some minor cosmetics

v.0.4
- in an AVS creator tab, you can create an AviSynth script for your source - may it be MPEG1/2, AVI, D2V - with a handful of mouse clicks, including an automatic deinterlacer (ReduceBy2 is applied for all clips which could need it)
- a preview window lets you crop like a charm
- a little "drop here"-window accepts your source file and sorts them in
- you can now adjust Startup Latency and Max Keyframe Interval in the global settings
- RealHandy now supports sEHQ officially...

v.0.3.1
- all settings are saved and reloaded when you start RealHandy next time
- some checks make sure that you don't enter complete nonsense as bitrate
- stylish yellow and red warnings if you enter bitrates that are too high
- a BDCTCLC (bitrate dependend capacity to clip length calculator) tells you the capacity of memory cards measured in clip length

v.0.3
- redesigned icon (ok, not really worth to mention...)
- video encoding added (avi and avs as input; of course avs needs a working avisynth installation)

v.0.2
- renamed to RealHandy
- files can now be added via drag'n'drop
- the external batch file is no longer needed
- audio gain added to gui (as it is no longer adjustable via a batch file)

v.0.1
First Public Release.

Last edited by Marcel; 29th March 2004 at 21:57.
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Old 22nd February 2004, 23:27   #2  |  Link
Sirber
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Spiro don't go up to 64kbps IIRC. What is it developped in?
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Old 22nd February 2004, 23:32   #3  |  Link
Marcel
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Spiro doesn't, but Cook does. I haven't tested all flavors yet, but Cook/3 works fine on my mobile.

Edit:
It's made with Delphi 3.
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Old 23rd February 2004, 01:14   #4  |  Link
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k

your soft is now in the RealViveo 9 sticky Welcome to the club
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Old 23rd February 2004, 13:51   #5  |  Link
Marcel
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wow, that's a big bunch of extra motivation...
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Old 1st March 2004, 23:46   #6  |  Link
Marcel
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The actual release, v.0.3, accepts any bitrate. Please make sure you don't set it too high - official limit is 80kBit/s, some clips work with 100kBit/s (I did a recode of Indigen with 100kBit/s which plays wonderful), others don't (a movie scene, global motion through a chinatown-like street, stuttered at 100kBit/s avg/max, as well as at 80avg/100max).
So this release still needs brain and knowledge.
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Old 3rd March 2004, 13:23   #7  |  Link
Marcel
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Release v.0.3.1 will ask you for the producer, even if you told previous releases where it is located. It's not a bug of v.0.3.1, it's a feature of v.0.2/v.0.3.
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Old 3rd March 2004, 14:54   #8  |  Link
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You should include producer with your release, so you can add special things like DropDupe and MKV output
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Old 3rd March 2004, 15:30   #9  |  Link
Marcel
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DropDupe sounds interesting, but MKV? According to Real Mobile Player documentation, it doesn't support MKV. Remember, I'm encoding for mobiles; everything else is your field.

I'll think about DropDupe in later releases. In v.0.4, I want to include an avs creator. DropDupe would need me working with job files, and that's some work to implement this.
Further, I don't want to include the full producer. It's huge; maybe I'll check the size of an RV8 only pack.
So no dropdupe before v.0.4.1, maybe even not before v.0.5....
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Old 3rd March 2004, 17:10   #10  |  Link
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DropDupe can save you a lot of bitrate, so higher quality on your mobile
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Old 3rd March 2004, 21:16   #11  |  Link
Marcel
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On these low bitrates, RV8 drops frames anyway if video mode is not set to smooth.
But I'll implement DropDupe as soon as possible. I hope it will do a better job in skipping frames.

And I already have an idea how to ship DropDupe, but not full producer...

But as I said, let me implement an easy-to-use AVS-Creator first.
With AVS, DropDupe and helping ShowMessage() I'll head for a 1.0 as version number.
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Old 5th March 2004, 16:39   #12  |  Link
bond
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marcel
Coming from the DivX/XVid-Corner, my Nokia 3650 and its preinstalled Realplayer for Mobile threw me on the green - now I'm addicted to RealMedia
My project is aiming at encoding clips 100% compatible to Nokia Series 60 devices (Audio: RealAudio G2, RealAudio 8 and Sipro Voice codecs up to 64kbps; Video: RealVideo G2 and RealVideo 8 up to 80kbps, max. 172x128 pixels)
you can also use mpeg-4 (xvid, divx5 aso) in the .3gp/.mp4 format, which is also supported by nokia devices next to real stuff
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MPEG-4 ASP FAQ | AVC/H.264 FAQ | AAC FAQ | MP4 FAQ | MP4Menu stores DVD Menus in MP4 (guide)
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Last edited by bond; 5th March 2004 at 16:41.
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Old 7th March 2004, 22:08   #13  |  Link
Marcel
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Quote:
Originally posted by bond
you can also use mpeg-4 (xvid, divx5 aso) in the .3gp/.mp4 format, which is also supported by nokia devices next to real stuff
My first steps in MP4 weren't that successful; en detail, the clip I created didn't play at my 3650, so I forgot MP4 faster than I thought about it.
But now that I've found the MP4 guide in your sig, I'l do further 'research'.
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Old 8th March 2004, 21:50   #14  |  Link
Marcel
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I did a quick test with an AVI, a DVB rip, about 13 seconds, 704x524, from Star Search, 18.07.2003. Compressed with XVid @1818 kbit/s, audio is MP3@112 kbit/s. DRF Average 3.084.
I compressed it twice, once with Nokia Multimedia Converter to .3gp, once with RealHandy (without AVS script, videomode normal, noise filter none) to .rm. Both with about 16kbit/s for audio (.3gp:AMR / .rm:cook), 80kbit/s overall (audio + video + container overhead). The image quality of the .rm with 25 FPS looked by far better than that of the .3gp, though it had only 15 FPS. (.ra had quality QI 43, says producers logfile.) And the sound was better, too.

I tried to create some .MP4 files, following Doom9s guide. The Real Player on my mobile said 'hello, give the .mp4 files to me!', but trying to play them, my whole mobile was extremely slowing down, even after closing the Real Player. (it's my first mobile with a task manager... switch and kill task, sitting in a subway ) I had to restart my mobile!
As the guide proposed, I used DivX 5.1.1 (basic) to create a video only 80kBit/s AVI (172x128) and muxed it into an .mp4 using MP4UI, with and without several 20kBit/s AACs. Maybe I should do so with an AMR.
Then I created an video-only-file with XVid 1.0RC3, profile@level Simple@L0, 172x128, 64kBit/s. Real Player says "Daten werden geladen" ("data is being loaded"), for 5 minutes now.

Seems like me staying with RV8.
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Old 9th March 2004, 00:13   #15  |  Link
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RV8 Did you know you can use EHQ?
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Old 9th March 2004, 08:12   #16  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marcel
As the guide proposed, I used DivX 5.1.1 (basic) to create a video only 80kBit/s AVI (172x128) and muxed it into an .mp4 using MP4UI, with and without several 20kBit/s AACs. Maybe I should do so with an AMR.
Then I created an video-only-file with XVid 1.0RC3, profile@level Simple@L0, 172x128, 64kBit/s.
be carefull what settings you are using!

first of all did you disabled b-frames/bi-directional encoding/b-vops in divx5 and xvid? try using level3 in xvid
are you sure your mobile supports aac?

also mp4ui is known to be buggy, try muxing with quicktime for example! it should handle .3gp and .mp4 muxing right
also you can try the 3ivx or gpac muxer
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MPEG-4 ASP FAQ | AVC/H.264 FAQ | AAC FAQ | MP4 FAQ | MP4Menu stores DVD Menus in MP4 (guide)
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Last edited by bond; 9th March 2004 at 08:16.
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Old 9th March 2004, 12:00   #17  |  Link
Marcel
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Quote:
Originally posted by bond
be carefull what settings you are using!

first of all did you disabled b-frames/bi-directional encoding/b-vops in divx5 and xvid? try using level3 in xvid
are you sure your mobile supports aac?
I don't know if AAC is supported, AMR NB is. But I also made a soundless clip that didn't work.
As using DivX Basic, I wasn't able to use any of the DivX Pro features.
In a document I found somewhere on http://www.forum.nokia.com ("Video_and_Streaming_Content_Creation_Guide_v1_0.pdf") Nokia recommends using Simple Profile @ Level 0. But that all didn't work.
Maybe the FPS have been the stumbling block: Nokia recommends 15 as a maximum, I used 25. Further testing will follow, though I see no sense in MP4 video stuttering with 15 FPS, as this can be created with RV8 at a very high quality.

Quote:
Originally posted by bond

also mp4ui is known to be buggy, try muxing with quicktime for example! it should handle .3gp and .mp4 muxing right
also you can try the 3ivx or gpac muxer
That's a very valuable hint. I hope that I'll find a solution that can be controlled by an external application.

It'll be interesting so see RV8 and MP4 competing. I'd say that MP4 might offer better video quality at the same video bitrate (XVid SP@L0), but a higher audio bitrate will be needed to reach Reals cook/2 quality, which is quite impressive for 16kBit/s.
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Old 9th March 2004, 12:15   #18  |  Link
bond
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marcel
I don't know if AAC is supported, AMR NB is. But I also made a soundless clip that didn't work.
hm afaik most nokia phones should handle aac, as nokia is also one of the patent holders on aac audio

Quote:
Maybe the FPS have been the stumbling block: Nokia recommends 15 as a maximum, I used 25. Further testing will follow, though I see no sense in MP4 video stuttering with 15 FPS, as this can be created with RV8 at a very high quality.
well if nokia recommends 15fps i am sure they do it for a reason
you should be also able to change the fps via avisynth during encoding with divx5 and xvid
maybe you also want to look at how the .mp4 encodes for phones are done floating around on the net

Quote:
That's a very valuable hint. I hope that I'll find a solution that can be controlled by an external application.
gpac's mp4box should already handle 3gp/mp4 muxing right and is available as opensource here, a binary of mp4box is available here

Quote:
but a higher audio bitrate will be needed to reach Reals cook/2 quality, which is quite impressive for 16kBit/s.
hm i am not so sure about that, looking at a quality comparison at 64kbps, ra and aac where pretty much the same (which isnt that usable for conclusions at 16kbps but maybe as a hint!?)
if the mobile supports he-aac i am pretty sure it will beat ra

amr is for speech only?
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MPEG-4 ASP FAQ | AVC/H.264 FAQ | AAC FAQ | MP4 FAQ | MP4Menu stores DVD Menus in MP4 (guide)
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Old 9th March 2004, 19:15   #19  |  Link
Marcel
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sirber
RV8 Did you know you can use EHQ?
whooo, I completely overlooked this.
EHQ in RV8? Great! Could be the final step in reaching MRLI-quality @2,35:1 and MLI-quality @16:9 video @ 64kBit/s.
(MLI: Marcel likes it; MRLI: Marcel really likes it)

Quote:
Originally posted by bond
hm afaik most nokia phones should handle aac, as nokia is also one of the patent holders on aac audio
Quote:
Taken from Nokias Content Creation Guide
MPEG-4 Advanced Audio Codec (AAC)
•Optional audio codec in 3G PSS
•Mainly used for high-quality audio encoding at reasonable bit rates
•Sampling frequency: Up to 48000 Hz, mono/stereo
•Support for AAC-LC (Low Complexity Mode); may also support AAC-LTP (Long Term Prediction)
•One AAC frame = 1024 samples
•Can be used for both Constant Bit Rate (CBR) and Variable Bit Rate (VBR) encoding/decoding
•Reasonable encoder bit-rates switches (kbit/s): 24 – 48 – 56 – 96
•VBR can be achieved by dynamically changing the bit-rate switch. Switching can be done on a
frame-by-frame basis
hm, at 24 kBit/s we might become friends.
Funny that even Nokia doesn't know if LTP is supported.

Quote:
Originally posted by bond
well if nokia recommends 15fps i am sure they do it for a reason
you should be also able to change the fps via avisynth during encoding with divx5 and xvid
maybe you also want to look at how the .mp4 encodes for phones are done floating around on the net
Hm, some spanish people seem to be active in this area...
But, like said before, 15 FPS is MHLI-quality.
(MHLI: Marcel hardly likes it)

The reason for the 15FPS might be limited hardware power; but also a very bad video quality with Nokias Multimedia Converter even at 15FPS - it must be really really bad looking at 25FPS with the same bitrate.

Quote:
Originally posted by bond
gpac's mp4box should already handle 3gp/mp4 muxing right and is available as opensource here, a binary of mp4box is available here
So i'll check it, next to QuickTime basic (which supports basic 3GP creation, as I saw during its installation).

Quote:
Originally posted by bond
hm i am not so sure about that, looking at a quality comparison at 64kbps, ra and aac where pretty much the same (which isnt that usable for conclusions at 16kbps but maybe as a hint!?)
if the mobile supports he-aac i am pretty sure it will beat ra
well, we'll see...

Quote:
Originally posted by bond
amr is for speech only?
My test clip was a speech only clip.
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Old 9th March 2004, 20:36   #20  |  Link
Marcel
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sirber
RV8 Did you know you can use EHQ?
eh, if so - how?

With
Code:
    <stream xsi:type="videoStream">
      <pluginName type="string">rn-videocodec-realvideo</pluginName>
      <codecName type="string">rv8</codecName>
      <encodingType type="string">cbr</encodingType>
      <quality type="uint">50</quality>
      <maxStartupLatency type="double">10</maxStartupLatency>
      <maxFrameRate type="double">30</maxFrameRate>
      <maxKeyFrameInterval type="double">10</maxKeyFrameInterval>
      <enableLossProtection type="bool">false</enableLossProtection>
      <codecProperties type="bag">
        <encoderComplexity type="uint">85</encoderComplexity>
      </codecProperties>
    </stream>
,
producer 10.0.0.195 says:
Quote:
PID720,Informational,Command Line,2004/03/09 21:31:59,10529,Preparing to encode file "K:\temp\ElleSI.avi" to file "K:\temp\ElleSI.rm"
PID720,Informational,SDK Encoding,2004/03/09 21:31:59,15000,Starting encode
PID720,Informational,SDK Encoding,2004/03/09 21:31:59,15004,Starting analysis pass
PID720,Error,Video Codec,2004/03/09 21:31:59,0,Failed to Set Property: Key encoderComplexity Value 85
PID720,Error,Video Codec,2004/03/09 21:31:59,0,Failed to initialize video codec 03VR
PID720,Error,SDK Encoding,2004/03/09 21:31:59,15001,Job failed to start encoding
PID720,Error,Command Line,2004/03/09 21:31:59,10532,Encoding failed!
.
Seems like EHQ is RV9/RV10 only and I have to keep sticking with -eco high.
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