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Old 19th April 2010, 11:13   #11381  |  Link
tetsuo55
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Good point.

I oversimplified my reply to Keiyakusha.

the correct reply is:

MPC-HC includes codecs to provide a backup for when the OS or user do not provide the required codec for the file. This also provides us with the opertunity to add some advanced features like DXVA1 support with subtitles.

By default the included codecs are prefered over external ones to prevent codec hell, improve the quality of feature requests and bug reports and to make the dxva codecs available by default.

[It's not only codecs though, the same is true for source filters, splitters(parser filters), subtitle renderer and audio-/video-renderers]
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Last edited by tetsuo55; 19th April 2010 at 11:16.
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Old 19th April 2010, 11:36   #11382  |  Link
madshi
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Ok, thanks, that makes more sense to me...

But then the question is: Instead of trying to compile ffdshow into MPC HC, wouldn't it make more sense to remove those parts from MPC HC which are duplicate to ffdshow and instead rely on ffdshow to take over that work? Maybe you could distribute the full standalone ffdshow package with MPC HC to make things easier for MPC HC users (don't know if that's possible legally, though). You could also ship other external filters with MPC HC, if you like them and their license allows that.

IMHO the focus of the MPC HC team should *not* be to replace all external filters with internal stuff. The focus instead should be to give MPC HC users the best possible experience out of the box. If there are external filters available that are better than the internal filters, MPC HC should consider using those external filters by default and (as said above) maybe even distribute them with MPC HC, if legally possible. That would IMHO be the best approach for MPC HC users, although maybe it could hurt the pride of MPC HC developers...

But this kind of discussion probably belongs into the MPC HC thread...
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Old 19th April 2010, 11:39   #11383  |  Link
tetsuo55
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what you describe is basically what codecpacks like k-lite and cccp do.

We do not intend to do any work on the codecs, the idea to make ffdshows ffmpeg implementation cleaner is to remove the worry about codecs from the mpc-hc team completley so they can focus on stuff that actually matters.
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Old 19th April 2010, 12:02   #11384  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo55 View Post
what you describe is basically what codecpacks like k-lite and cccp do.
In case you haven't noticed, MPC HC currently is a codecpack, too! It's just a more limited codecpack, because it limits itself to only self-written codecs, some of which are good, some are less good, and many are duplicates to ffdshow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo55 View Post
We do not intend to do any work on the codecs, the idea to make ffdshows ffmpeg implementation cleaner is to remove the worry about codecs from the mpc-hc team completley so they can focus on stuff that actually matters.
So in other words: MPC HC will stay a codecpack, and since you don't plan to work on the codecs, it will only get more outdated over time. And to make things even worse, you plan to continue prefering most internal codecs of your codecpack over external codecs by default.

IMHO you should invest some thinking over whether you want MPC HC to be a codecpack or not. If yes, you should go the full mile and include all codecs (external or not) which you find best for any given format. If no, you should move all good MPC HC filters to an external package and make MPC HC a pure media player. Right now it's neither fish nor flesh. Maybe ffdshow could be extended to also home source filters? This way all good MPC HC filters could be moved to ffdshow. But of course that's only my 2 cents...
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Old 19th April 2010, 12:16   #11385  |  Link
tetsuo55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
In case you haven't noticed, MPC HC currently is a codecpack, too! It's just a more limited codecpack, because it limits itself to only self-written codecs, some of which are good, some are less good, and many are duplicates to ffdshow.


So in other words: MPC HC will stay a codecpack, and since you don't plan to work on the codecs, it will only get more outdated over time. And to make things even worse, you plan to continue prefering most internal codecs of your codecpack over external codecs by default.

IMHO you should invest some thinking over whether you want MPC HC to be a codecpack or not. If yes, you should go the full mile and include all codecs (external or not) which you find best for any given format. If no, you should move all good MPC HC filters to an external package and make MPC HC a pure media player. Right now it's neither fish nor flesh. Maybe ffdshow could be extended to also home source filters? This way all good MPC HC filters could be moved to ffdshow. But of course that's only my 2 cents...
The same is true for all players, we have no intention to change the current behaviour. We are also the filter upstream for many open and closed source projects so changes there could wreak havok downstream.

The only thing we are trying to do (and albain has already done most of the work here) is to use ffdshows libavcodec as the (maintainable) upstream for the ffmpeg codecs included in mpc-hc as the code is 99% the same but updating it twice takes double the effort.

(Also filter A is better than filter B will have to be proven with a scientific test, we simply use the best open source upstream which is ffmpeg)
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Last edited by tetsuo55; 19th April 2010 at 12:20.
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Old 19th April 2010, 12:20   #11386  |  Link
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MPC already has the functionality to load external filters without requiring those filters to be registered on the system (/filter command line parameter). That could be used to replace the internal decoders if the functionality is extended with:
1) An optional bundle of recommended external filters that can be installed (or extracted) in specific subdir of MPC location. This could contain stuff like ffdshow, haali, madflac, etc.
2) Ability to select in MPC options which of those filters should be used. Filters that are detected as registered on the system should be hidden (so that registered filters take precedence over the bundled filters). There should also be buttons for opening filter properties dialogs to configure their settings.
3) MPC should create a virtual registry for these filters to store their settings, like madshi suggested. This must be stored as a file, so settings are remembered. A file with initial recommended settings must be included in the filter bundle. The virtual registry file should be in some user readable format, so that it can be easily edited.

The above would allow MPC to make use of many excellent filters, while still being portable. The only difficult part is the virtual registry.
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Old 19th April 2010, 12:22   #11387  |  Link
tetsuo55
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I do think this change in filter loading behaviour is a good idea regardless of where and how we store the default codecs.

A patch that enables this (or at least feature request on the tracker) would be great.
(We have few devs, and those we have are not interested in changes like this, which is one of the reasons for upstreaming ffmpeg)

Maybe this creates some more clarity.

A dshow graph can be very complex and mpc-hc provides every required filter internally.
example:

player > source filter > splitter >
> video codec > video software postprocessor > video renderer (> hardware postprocess)
> Subtitle renderer > video renderer (either directly or through a 2nd surface)
> audio codec > audio software postprocessor > audio renderer (> hardware postprocess)

Thats about 10 filters (but currently mpc-hc does not offer postprocessing as both gabest and casimir seem to not like that, if they had both projects would have merged a long time ago)
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Last edited by tetsuo55; 19th April 2010 at 12:40.
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Old 19th April 2010, 13:02   #11388  |  Link
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Don't expect use to help out with the internal decoders of MPC. We don't have the manpower for it either, nor do we care much about it, since we obviously prefer to use ffdshow instead. I don't mind updating the ffmpeg stuff in MPC once in a while (when I have time), but that is all we can do for you.
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Old 19th April 2010, 14:04   #11389  |  Link
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Yes you are right, we don't expect any help for our side of the story, mpc-hc devs will have to fix stuff in the ffdshow trunk.
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Old 19th April 2010, 16:11   #11390  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikarad View Post
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3...e79d7d0540e1e1
What is the difference between ffdshow_rev3361_20100415_xhmikosr.exe and ffdshow_rev3361_20100415_xhmikosr_icl11_core2.exe?
The second file is just for double core?
up! thanks
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Old 19th April 2010, 16:27   #11391  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikarad View Post
up! thanks
Read the first post of this thread, the FAQ, Google etc.
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Old 19th April 2010, 16:42   #11392  |  Link
ikarad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastplayer View Post
Read the first post of this thread, the FAQ, Google etc.
It's not explained.
I don't speak about icl11 but about core2 in the name of file
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Old 19th April 2010, 19:54   #11393  |  Link
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Hi devs.
I didnt think you will have some free time to look, but if you have - this sample (recorded by SAMSUNG camcodrder) doesnot work using FFDshow DXVA decoder - you will see only black screen if you will use MPC-HC MP4 splitter.
Becouse it is working with standart FFDshow decoder, it seems to be some kind of DXVA decoder issue.

It will start to work by using haali as the splitter or Cyberlink h.264 DXVA decoder, or by conversion in to MKV (MKV merge) - but that is not solution for me
Thanks.
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Old 19th April 2010, 20:19   #11394  |  Link
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Quote:
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In case you haven't noticed, MPC HC currently is a codecpack, too!
Except without the conflicts, crashes and ancient ACM/VCM libraries that codec packs have. (also the hundreds of tray icons)

In my opinion the setup is fine. It's the right mix between standalone player and mplayer/vlc type app with support for hundreds of codecs and dozens of various options. Though there is some cruft like RealMedia and Quicktime support that's a bit dated.

Also internal DXVA is better than anything else for 1080p50 material.
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Old 19th April 2010, 20:51   #11395  |  Link
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That is just nonsense. A good codec pack will give you LESS problems than MPC-HC with all of its internal filters enabled.
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Old 19th April 2010, 21:20   #11396  |  Link
tetsuo55
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do you have any proof of that?
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Old 19th April 2010, 21:41   #11397  |  Link
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Also internal DXVA is better than anything else for 1080p50 material.
Not as part of the current discussion about codec packs and stuff I want to ask what is the difference compared to ffdshow?
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Old 19th April 2010, 21:46   #11398  |  Link
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do you have any proof of that?
Were you responding to me? If so, there are a few examples on MPC's bugtracker, like the mod16 bug, amr issues. Those bugs do not exist in ffdshow.
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Old 19th April 2010, 21:53   #11399  |  Link
tetsuo55
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Were you responding to me? If so, there are a few examples on MPC's bugtracker, like the mod16 bug, amr issues. Those bugs do not exist in ffdshow.
afaik those exist because our version of ffmpeg is broken, hence why i rather do a straight copy from ffdshow's one.
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Old 19th April 2010, 22:18   #11400  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clsid View Post
That is just nonsense. A good codec pack will give you LESS problems than MPC-HC with all of its internal filters enabled.
oh dear...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiyakusha View Post
Not as part of the current discussion about codec packs and stuff I want to ask what is the difference compared to ffdshow?
The various copying between GPU and PC memory isn't suitable for high-bandwidth 1080p50.
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