Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 24th January 2012, 23:44   #11901  |  Link
CruNcher
Registered User
 
CruNcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 4,949
Pagefile writes most probably, though saying that MadVR causes them is a little to fast without analyzing in depth whats going on, you should look where exactly what writes to and then analyze why
__________________
all my compares are riddles so please try to decipher them yourselves :)

It is about Time

Join the Revolution NOW before it is to Late !

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168004
CruNcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2012, 00:06   #11902  |  Link
Andy o
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 936
Quote:
Originally Posted by e-t172 View Post
The Windows Visa/7 audio engine does not introduce distortion. In fact it should be bit-exact if the input sample rate matches the configured sample rate.
I think this is true of XP. The audio engine in Vista/7 processes all audio in 32 float, doesn't it? A long time ago I remember I tested this with DTS-WAV, but couldn't do it bit-perfectly through the Vista/7 mixer (don't remember which was but should be the same). In any case, WASAPI exclusive is easier and more practical.
__________________
GA-Z87MX-D3H (Intel Z87), i7-4770, GTX-1650 Super, Win 10-64.
Pioneer VSX-LX503, LG OLED65C9
Andy o is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2012, 00:21   #11903  |  Link
e-t172
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post
The audio engine in Vista/7 processes all audio in 32 float, doesn't it? A long time ago I remember I tested this with DTS-WAV, but couldn't do it bit-perfectly through the Vista/7 mixer (don't remember which was but should be the same).
Well, yeah. The Vista/7 mixer indeed processes audio in 32-bit float, what makes it not bit-perfect is that it dithers before converting back to integer (as it should). I stand corrected. This will corrupt DTS-WAV bitstreams (which are not supposed to use PCM audio APIs, by the way) but for normal audio waveforms, its effect is negligible (+3dB of noise floor).
e-t172 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2012, 02:02   #11904  |  Link
Mangix
Audiophile
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 354
using WASAPI exclusive mode does NOT upsample everything and then dither it down. one solution for people with complaints about the vista/7 audio mixer. better audio with that than you'll ever get with xp.
Mangix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2012, 08:24   #11905  |  Link
e-t172
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangix View Post
using WASAPI exclusive mode does NOT upsample everything and then dither it down. one solution for people with complaints about the vista/7 audio mixer. better audio with that than you'll ever get with xp.
That's why I output 32-bit float from the audio decoder and renderer. This way I'm just moving the dithering operation from the decoder/renderer to the Windows audio engine, without any loss in quality.
e-t172 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2012, 09:06   #11906  |  Link
G_M_C
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,076
Could we please move the audio-discussion auto of the madVR section ? madVR is a video renderer after all, so this isn't the right place for a audio discussion.
G_M_C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2012, 12:26   #11907  |  Link
leeperry
Kid for Today
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin77 View Post
Why not Use WASAPI Exclusive? (you can set that up in Reclock)
Why not discussing audio matters elsewhere? It's the mVR thread, thank you.
leeperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2012, 18:27   #11908  |  Link
kalston
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangix View Post
using WASAPI exclusive mode does NOT upsample everything and then dither it down. one solution for people with complaints about the vista/7 audio mixer. better audio with that than you'll ever get with xp.
You forgot that XP has Kernel Streaming and ASIO (although Reclock doesn't support the latter) and even Directsound can easily be bitperfect in XP.
kalston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2012, 18:59   #11909  |  Link
Mangix
Audiophile
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 354
i agree with leeperry so this is my last post on this:

directsound's kmixer has been known to cause issues when mixing audio streams with differing sample rates(hence why kernel streaming was invented, although i will say bitperfect playback with kernel streaming is quite dependent on proper drivers. i've seen realtek audio drivers mangle the audio and some drivers(Aureal and Realtek) still do mixing with kernel streaming). asio is the gold standard(low latency and bitperfect) but hardly supported(asio4all doesn't count). that's why i say WASAPI exclusive is the best solution for most people who want to get bitperfect playback.
Mangix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2012, 10:35   #11910  |  Link
bjd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 163
Had to roll back my WDM Realtek HD driver to 2.56 becuase of crackling on newer drivers.

Best advice when kernel streaming with Realtek drivers in XP is to mute all the mixer inputs including line and ensure the DSP effects are switched off too. That way it should bitstream DTS wav files - it did for me.
__________________
4gb DDR3/AMD Fx6300 Windows 8.1, GT750ti, Auzentech Meridian 7.1, LG 42LN5400 4:4:4 1080P LCD TV

Last edited by bjd; 26th January 2012 at 10:35. Reason: typo
bjd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2012, 15:26   #11911  |  Link
adam777
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 179
Hi all,
Due to a very unfortunate series of events (only some of which my fault... ), I had to reinstall my Windows 7 machine.
I got everything installed and configured only to realize madVR works much worse than before.

The symptoms (all under both Zoom Player and MPC-HC):
- Initial playback takes long to begin, resulting in a massive (200+) amount of dropped frames.
- Opening context menu while in fullscreen exclusive mode (i.e. switching to fullscreen windowed mode) takes long as well (a few seconds), again resulting in massive amount of dropped frames.
- Going out of fullscreen while in FSE (going to windowed mode) demonstrates same behavior.
- Exiting the player takes long as well.
- As far as I can tell, once playback gets going, all is well (haven't tested it thoroughly, though).

I tried madVR with both default settings and my minor modifications (default scaling algorithms, some options changed here and there).
Although madVR 0.80 worked perfectly prior to the unfortunate reinstallation, I did try some older versions (0.79-0.76) to no avail.
I can think of nothing major that changed in my setup, same filters are in use (LAV Splitter->LAV Video->madVR on the video side of things) and I suppose same general setup as well (Windows 7 x64 SO1, fully patched, latest directx etc.).
Also worth noting, I'm doing all testing on a file I know worked well before (Windows 7 sample video - "wildlife").

I realize this maybe a bit general, but If someone can offer an insight on specific things I should look at, it'll be a great help.

Thanks, Adam.

* EDIT *
A-Ha!
I just realized that while busy downloading the latest versions of my software I actually installed a newer Catalyst version (12.1, just released).
I removed it, rebooted and all is smooth again
I'm not convinced I used the previous version (12.11), so I'll try to pinpoint the exact problematic version.

Last edited by adam777; 26th January 2012 at 16:25.
adam777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2012, 17:05   #11912  |  Link
Qaq
AV heretic
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 422
Adam, I guess you need to increase the merits for LAV. Here on d9 forum should be a tool for that. Check forums carefully.
Qaq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2012, 17:43   #11913  |  Link
adam777
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 179
OK, conclusions.
I removed installed Catalyst (express uninstall which should remove everything), rebooted and installed 11.10 - Everything seems to be OK.
Removed 11.10, rebooted and installed 11.11 - still OK.
Removed 11.11, rebooted and installed 11.12 - OK, yet again.
At this point I was sure 12.1 was the problem, as it seems there are some differences with this release comparing to previous ones:
- Mobility installer offers more stuff (for example, HDMI audio driver. In previous versions, I had to run the desktop version to be offered the driver).
- Much larger package size (~150MB vs. ~100MB).
- Different unpacking location (though it is irrelevant of course).
- Some changes to the CCC.
Overall, it just seems a bit different.

So, installed 12.1 again, and what do you know - now it works...
I believe that at some point during last night's reinstallation marathon I installed 11.12, and then installed 12.1 (which was just released at the time, I probably download it within minutes of release) without uninstalling 11.12, which could be the reason for the weird behavior.

Bottom line, everything seems to be in order.
Thanks for listening
adam777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th January 2012, 04:53   #11914  |  Link
FreeFall
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 72
madshi,

I have a strange problem with madVR in Zoom Player when using xy-vsfilter. If a video uses pgs subtitles after playback is started it then stops, video plays fine after starting playback a second time. I don't have the problem with playback when using the EVR renderer.

Win7 64 bit, Zoom Player 8.1, madVR 0.80, xy-vsfilter 3.0.0.1, LAV Filters 0.44, tested with a Blu-ray disc and an Mkv encode with pgs subtitles.


FreeFall.
FreeFall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th January 2012, 07:39   #11915  |  Link
cyberbeing
Broadband Junkie
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,859
Does the problem go away if you disable the 'Delay playback until render queue is full' option in madVR?
cyberbeing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th January 2012, 07:44   #11916  |  Link
golagoda
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeFall View Post
madshi,

I have a strange problem with madVR in Zoom Player when using xy-vsfilter. If a video uses pgs subtitles after playback is started it then stops, video plays fine after starting playback a second time. I don't have the problem with playback when using the EVR renderer.

Win7 64 bit, Zoom Player 8.1, madVR 0.80, xy-vsfilter 3.0.0.1, LAV Filters 0.44, tested with a Blu-ray disc and an Mkv encode with pgs subtitles.


FreeFall.
It may or may not help at all, but in the ffmpeg 0.10 release (released today) one of the main changes was "Improved PGS subtitle decoder".

When ffmpeg is updated in whatever you're using behavior might improve.
golagoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th January 2012, 08:14   #11917  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 9,872
xy-vsfilter does not use ffmpeg for subtitle decoding.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th January 2012, 08:21   #11918  |  Link
golagoda
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
xy-vsfilter does not use ffmpeg for subtitle decoding.
I've never even heard of xy-vsfilter so I have no idea really, was just putting that out there in-case it helped
golagoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th January 2012, 08:37   #11919  |  Link
FreeFall
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 72
cyberbeing,

Thanks, turning off "delay playback start until render queue is full" fixed the problem, I use the option to reduce presentation glitches.

golagoda,

Thanks, xy-vsfilter uses the same pgs sub renderer that mpc-hc does with the same bugs (has timing problems, some subs show up later then they are supposed to or disappear to early). Maybe one day we will see a ffmpeg based dshow subtitle renderer or another alternative.
FreeFall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2012, 02:43   #11920  |  Link
woody777
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody777 View Post
When I try to play MKVs (standard definition dvds) in MPC-HC using Madvr, I get the message "Madvr Reports: deinterlacing failed" when I press control J.

The error just repeats over and over in red text and there is no other information on the screen.

The MKV plays, but I want to know how to correct the error.
Anybody?
woody777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 13:20.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.