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Old 3rd August 2013, 00:21   #19761  |  Link
dbcooper
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Hi All, is it confirmed that MadVR can disable the default windows LUT when it plays video and uses a 3DLUT?
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Old 3rd August 2013, 00:23   #19762  |  Link
dansrfe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbcooper View Post
Hi All, is it confirmed that MadVR can disable the default windows LUT when it plays video and uses a 3DLUT?
devices -> [your_device] -> calibration -> disable GPU gamma ramps
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Old 3rd August 2013, 00:36   #19763  |  Link
dbcooper
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Cheers. That's what I've been doing. I assume that Fullscreen Exclusive mode must be used?
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Old 3rd August 2013, 00:42   #19764  |  Link
dansrfe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbcooper View Post
Cheers. That's what I've been doing. I assume that Fullscreen Exclusive mode must be used?
Nope, it applies in all modes.
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Old 3rd August 2013, 02:23   #19765  |  Link
dbcooper
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Thanks again. One last question:

I have created a 3DLut for Rec709 (using the following: collink.exe -v -3m -qh -et -Et -IB2.2 -G -iaw Rec709.icm MadVR.icm 3DLUT.icm), and have specified it in the Rec709 dialogue box under devices > calibration. Do I need to add it for the other gamuts, or will MadVR use it automatically and do appropriate transforms?
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Old 3rd August 2013, 12:28   #19766  |  Link
Nui
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AFAIK, you must not add this LUT for other gamuts. Each gamut needs its own LUT if you want to add them. Or you use only the one for Rec709 and madvr will do its magic for the rest
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Old 3rd August 2013, 12:55   #19767  |  Link
cyberbeing
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You can specify the REC709 3DLUT manually for all gamuts if you desire, it works the same either way.

Edit: In case that was too ambiguous, it means that madVR determines gamut from the primaries written plain-text in the 3DLUT header, not the slot you place it in. If the 3DLUT primaries do not match the gamut of the video, shader adaption to the native gamut of the 3DLUT will occur.

Last edited by cyberbeing; 3rd August 2013 at 16:26.
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Old 3rd August 2013, 17:11   #19768  |  Link
flashmozzg
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Reporting here: weird graycolor issue I had with all madVR versions higher than 0.84.7 is no longer present after I did new windows clean install, so whatever caused it now gone.
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Old 4th August 2013, 00:47   #19769  |  Link
Trib
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Done more calibrating of my Panasonic p42st32y plasma and still being confused. So I tried with -dmadvr -a and using just madvr to control black level (nvidia madvrlevelstweaker also forced 0-255). Now I was using argyll with the scenarios.html workflow.

-If i used 0-255 I get around 6500 contrast ratio but I can only see black bars flashing 20 and up not 17. Whites clip around 245. Also gamma shows a huge drop to 1.9 at 90% brightness!

-If I used 16-235 I get around half the contrast ratio around 3500 and see bar 16 and up flashing. Whites dont clip. Gamma curve appears normal bt 1886.

I tried using different collink settings -iaw and -IB or -ir and -Ib but no difference.

For both tests I used default True Cinema preset but I got 17 and up flashing adjusting brightness a lil up with 0-255 after calibration.

Im wondering whichone is the more "correct" behaviour and should be used. Or if anyone got any alternatives or ideas?
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Old 4th August 2013, 05:39   #19770  |  Link
pie1394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burfadel View Post
Would Directx 11.2 provide any benefits for MadVR? If so, any plans to implement them for Windows 8.1 when it comes out?
The new OS changes on some behaviors often have created a lot of headaches... They are always the first priority jobs to be dealt with.

Even if this OS has some "unique" new features unavailable on Win7, is it worthy to support that in short term --- when the Win8.x market share % is so low at this moment?
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Old 5th August 2013, 19:27   #19771  |  Link
ney2x
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My TV supports 23.976 Hz screen refresh rate and madVR perfectly fine with it (0 drop frames, no glitches), but, not with my PC monitor which natively supports 50, 59 and 60 Hz, and 72 Hz if I add custom resolution in Nvidia Control Panel.

My questions are, Is it safe for my monitor to used 72 Hz all the time? I mean, it doesn't destroy my monitor?

My configs are:
i7 2600k Sandy Bridge
GTX 560 Ti
LAV Filters - all default except LAV Video (CUVID)
Reclock - not bitstreaming because I used SPDIF

Sorry for my english
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Old 5th August 2013, 21:00   #19772  |  Link
lemo
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madVR v0.86.*
* fixed: #30: ZoomPlayer got stuck in 'on top' mode after leaving FSE

Hi. I think the above fix has broken the 'stay on top' feature in zoom player for me.

When zoom player goes from windowed to full screen exclusive and back to windowed again, 'stay on top' is still ticked but does not function. If I untick and retick the box 'stay on top' works as it should.

I like to have zoom player in the top corner of my screen so I can keep watching while browsing the web etc.

I have downgraded to madVR0865 which has fixed the problem.

Reporting bug, not complaining
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Old 6th August 2013, 03:47   #19773  |  Link
romulous
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@lemo: It's not madVR specific - same happens with all the other renderers. It's something that is a regression in the latest Zoom Player beta's (it was first reported with 8.70 Beta 11). There is a bug report in the Zoom bug tracker for Blight to look at:
http://forum.inmatrix.com/index.php?showtopic=14073#entry54462

I don't know why downgrading madVR fixes it for you when all the other renderers are affected as well though.
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Old 6th August 2013, 08:07   #19774  |  Link
dansrfe
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Is it just me or does smoothmotion use a substantial amount of VRAM?
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Old 6th August 2013, 10:23   #19775  |  Link
ryrynz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
Is it just me or does smoothmotion use a substantial amount of VRAM?
What's substantial? Specifics my boy!

For me my Intel HD 4000 GPU system memory grows from 239MB with it disabled to 303MB with it enabled, so it could be just you or to put it more accurately.. your graphics system.

A comparison between Intel, AMD and Nvidia results in this area would be interesting to see, perhaps something can be optimized here.
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Old 6th August 2013, 10:36   #19776  |  Link
dansrfe
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Well, when upscaling 1080p to 1440p at max settings in madVR with smoothmotion on an additional 300MB - 400MB of VRAM is taken up on my GTX 670 2GB. Not too sure I can attribute it directly to smoothmotion though. Need to do some testing to make sure exactly.
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Old 6th August 2013, 10:45   #19777  |  Link
dansrfe
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Ok, I now have a real (and tested) 120Hz monitor and a 60Hz monitor. I ran the SmoothMotion 24p test pattern on both monitors simultaneously and I cannot tell them apart in terms of smoothness with smoothmotion ON on the 60Hz monitor and smoothmotion OFF on the 120Hz monitor.

Now, other than the fact the 120Hz is good for games and even normal desktop usage, why is it still considered that a monitor @120Hz is better than a monitor @60Hz using smoothmotion? I would really like to know that technical reasons. Does interpolation cause microscopic artifacting? Is there some other drawback to using smoothmotion interpolation that cannot be easily seen?

Last edited by dansrfe; 6th August 2013 at 10:49.
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Old 6th August 2013, 12:19   #19778  |  Link
webs0r
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I thought smoothmotion only created frames when absolutely required. This is my understanding:

No frames would be created in the 24fps / 120Hz situation as madVR would show each frame 5 times within each second.
With 24 fps/60 hz situation madVR would show each frame twice, and interpolate 12 frames within each second via frame blending the adjacent frames.

If that's right, then 120 Hz is superior in that you are seeing only the intended frames present in the video stream. I think there is pretty low chance of artifacting with normal content but with 120 Hz you avoid any chance of it.
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Old 6th August 2013, 12:28   #19779  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moragg View Post
madshi: could you please add a link to the xy-subfilter thread in the first post so people know about it?
Done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen R. Savage View Post
Is there any trick I can do to get madVR to display at 60 fps without dropping massive amounts of frames?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen R. Savage View Post
GPU usage is at 3%. I have basically everything disabled, but madVR still can't hold a steady 60 fps. It plays fine for a moment (the buffers even seem to hold steady) but then it suddenly starts dropping frames like mad. I'll add that the file is VFR and alternates between 24p and 60p.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen R. Savage View Post
The OSD shows that rendering/upload queue drops instantly on switchover to 60p segment. The stranger part is that the rendering frametime indicator holds at a steady 8 ms but jumps to 20 ms instantaneously on switch. Perhaps on a longer sequence the rendering time would return to a steady value, but the 60p segments are only a few seconds in length.

Edit:
On 60p CFR, I see madVR running fine for a brief period, up to a minute, with all buffers at max. Then they suddenly all drop, with the rendering time indicator reading 30-40 ms, causing massive frame dropping that madVR never recovers from. On 24p/60p VFR, I see all the buffers dropping instantaneously on switching from 24p to 60p.
Not sure what's going on there. Which is the queue which gets empty first, from top to bottom? Make sure you have no other software running at the same time which might also access the GPU. E.g. some browsers do. Also make sure your GPU doesn't clock down dynamically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wOxxOm View Post
Some issues in v0.86.10:
  • when I use hotkey assigned for "image upscaling anti-ringing filter toggle on/off", it only displays *current* state of the filter in OSD but doesn't toggle it.
  • instead of two separate hotkeys to enable and disable FRC, it would only be natural to have one to toggle FRC on and off.
AR hotkey: If you press once, it shows the current state. If you press twice, it should change the state. At least that's how it works on my PC, just tested again, to be safe. Not all algorithms support AR, though, maybe that's the problem you ran into?

FRC hotkey logic might change in the future, but not now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
madshi, I wonder if it's possible to have madVR to run a quick query for other discrete GPUs and possibly parallelize usage of multiple GPUs for processing? Software SLI essentially.
Many things are "possible". I don't accept feature requests at the moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delerue View Post
It seems that smooth playback isn't working anymore with 0.86.10 as video stutters sometimes (23.976 FPS with 24 Hz).
You mean smooth motion FRC? Seems to work fine for everyone else. Maybe something else is going on on your PC? Maybe a screenshot of your OSD would help, in the moment when playback stutters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
I know that madVR doesn't support portrait mode however, out of curiosity, why is that madVR has to "support" portrait mode?
Don't ask me. The Direct3D documentation says that portrait mode should work automatically, without me having to do anything about it. But it doesn't. I don't know why...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSL_DK View Post
Hi ... Regarding madTPG, should I select 'disable VideoLUTs' throughout this workflow?
ArgyllCMS automatically disables everything that needs to be disabled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSL_DK View Post
the reason for my question is that with "-a TV.cal" achieves a strange result ... white is yellowish
Did you install this TV.cal into the GPU, when getting that yellowish? Did you tell madVR to disable the GPU gamma ramps during playback? When using "-a", the GPU gamma ramps are supposed to be empty/linear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burfadel View Post
Would Directx 11.2 provide any benefits for MadVR? If so, any plans to implement them for Windows 8.1 when it comes out?
There are some things which might be beneficial, but I'm not sure if I will support them, because I don't think it makes sense spending a lot of time on something which only works on Windows 8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trib View Post
Done more calibrating of my Panasonic p42st32y plasma and still being confused. So I tried with -dmadvr -a and using just madvr to control black level (nvidia madvrlevelstweaker also forced 0-255). Now I was using argyll with the scenarios.html workflow.

-If i used 0-255 I get around 6500 contrast ratio but I can only see black bars flashing 20 and up not 17. Whites clip around 245. Also gamma shows a huge drop to 1.9 at 90% brightness!

-If I used 16-235 I get around half the contrast ratio around 3500 and see bar 16 and up flashing. Whites dont clip. Gamma curve appears normal bt 1886.

I tried using different collink settings -iaw and -IB or -ir and -Ib but no difference.

For both tests I used default True Cinema preset but I got 17 and up flashing adjusting brightness a lil up with 0-255 after calibration.

Im wondering whichone is the more "correct" behaviour and should be used. Or if anyone got any alternatives or ideas?
It's hard to say for sure what's going wrong, without seeing the exact ArgyllCMS command lines you were using. In any case, this is a topic more suited to the ArgyllCMS+madVR thread. So you might want to ask there, with a list of the exact command lines you were using:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471169/madvr-argyllcms

Quote:
Originally Posted by ney2x View Post
My questions are, Is it safe for my monitor to used 72 Hz all the time? I mean, it doesn't destroy my monitor?
How are we supposed to know that? If a google search doesn't answer this question for you, you could call your monitor support hotline. Generally, I guess if your monitor accepts the signal and displays it, it's *probably* safe to use. But I can't really say for sure, or give you some guarantee or something...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
Is it just me or does smoothmotion use a substantial amount of VRAM?
It does consume a bit more GPU RAM, yes. "Substantial"? I don't know...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
Ok, I now have a real (and tested) 120Hz monitor and a 60Hz monitor. I ran the SmoothMotion 24p test pattern on both monitors simultaneously and I cannot tell them apart in terms of smoothness with smoothmotion ON on the 60Hz monitor and smoothmotion OFF on the 120Hz monitor.

Now, other than the fact the 120Hz is good for games and even normal desktop usage, why is it still considered that a monitor @120Hz is better than a monitor @60Hz using smoothmotion? I would really like to know that technical reasons. Does interpolation cause microscopic artifacting? Is there some other drawback to using smoothmotion interpolation that cannot be easily seen?
Basically if you don't see a difference that means that Smooth Motion FRC is doing a very good job.

Look for the "white line, black line, white line, black line" section in the test pattern bar which moves the slowest. That section should look slightly better with 120Hz and smooth motion FRC turned off.

Some people claim to see some ghosting artifacts when smooth motion FRC is turned on. Personally, I don't see that (with 24fps @ 60Hz). I do wonder if this artifact is really caused by smooth motion FRC itself or whether the display of the users which have this problem is not working as expected (e.g. running at a different internal refresh rate).

120Hz has some other advantages. E.g. it might allow the use of DFI (dark frame insertion) to make motion more sharp. You can't really do that with 60Hz, without getting strong flicking artifacts. But madVR currently does not do/support DFI. Maybe some far away day in the future...

One advantage of 120Hz is that you could do 50fps @ 120Hz with smooth motion turned on. Doing 50fps @ 60Hz currently doesn't work very well with smooth motion FRC.
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Old 6th August 2013, 14:42   #19780  |  Link
leeperry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
How are we supposed to know that? If a google search doesn't answer this question for you, you could call your monitor support hotline. Generally, I guess if your monitor accepts the signal and displays it, it's *probably* safe to use. But I can't really say for sure, or give you some guarantee or something...
nVidia recently came up with some new sales pitch implying that you could "overclock" your LCD monitor from the regular 60Hz to as much as 80Hz: http://translate.google.com/translat...hz-n28366.html

When lesnumeriques.com asked Samsung, they replied that this would void the warranty.....of course, they would have no way of finding out.

This said, CRT's do age faster when you go >100Hz. I was given a lot of technical reasons to that a few months ago, basically it really boils down to hardware "overclocking".....and my last 19" CRT did die very shortly after I had the genius idea of increasing its 720p refresh rate from 96 to 140Hz

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Some people claim to see some ghosting artifacts when smooth motion FRC is turned on. Personally, I don't see that (with 24fps @ 60Hz). I do wonder if this artifact is really caused by smooth motion FRC itself or whether the display of the users which have this problem is not working as expected (e.g. running at a different internal refresh rate).
I did experience a lot of ghosting due to my GPU not being beefy enough....I then lowered my scaling settings in mVR and all went well.

I do see faint ghosting but I'm still utterly impressed by how FRC in mVR in suppresses 24p judder, to my eyes the pop effect is drastically increased and instead of judder I see barely noticeable ghosting.....which is nothing more than frames blending really. Also, my brain got used to it and as far as I can tell it quickly ignores them, so all I really see is dead smooth 24p without FI artifacts

FRC in mVR is really a God send because I finally found a LCD screen I like but the darn thing judders like hell in 24p and doesn't support 48Hz, the closest it'll do is 49Hz....not as evil as the 4% pitchshifted 50Hz but 2% is still (very) hard to bear, so FRC in 60Hz and that's it

I was also able to overclock this TV up to 72Hz using minimal blanking timings(within the 165Mhz pixel clock limit), but then the TV is forced to bypass most of its post-processing and I can kiss its Rec-709 gamut bye bye so that's a no-go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
120Hz has some other advantages. E.g. it might allow the use of DFI (dark frame insertion) to make motion more sharp. You can't really do that with 60Hz, without getting strong flicking artifacts. But madVR currently does not do/support DFI. Maybe some far away day in the future...

One advantage of 120Hz is that you could do 50fps @ 120Hz with smooth motion turned on. Doing 50fps @ 60Hz currently doesn't work very well with smooth motion FRC.
That TV I just mentioned also offers BFI, but it really dims the picture.....to the point that whatever I do, gamma gets utterly dark >90 IRE, that's just painful and unacceptable.

So indeed BFI in mVR could be useful but it would require a display with a lot of extra brightness available, and of course clouding/light bleeding would become more visible. This might very well not be worth the hassle as the best way is to turn off the backlight really: Display motion blur
Quote:
Sharp Corporation use a "scanning backlight" which rapidly flashes the backlight in a sequence from the top to the bottom of the screen, during every frame.

Last edited by leeperry; 6th August 2013 at 15:02.
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