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Old 17th July 2013, 12:20   #19601  |  Link
kokotas
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Thanks wanezhiling It works as intended now.
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Old 17th July 2013, 15:45   #19602  |  Link
xabregas
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Hi!

Before i start let me just say how awesome is madvr!!

That said i was using an old version of madvr in windows 7 without Smooth Motion and finally after needed to install new OS (windows 8 x64 now) due to HDD overheating, i give it a go and tested it several times with both 23,976 and 25 fps material and i must say smooth motion is awesome in action scenes,now i can see what happens in many fight scenes, but i was watching ugly flickering and ghosting in moving objects like faces and people moving.

So i got panic and blamed CCC (I have HD7770 btw), so unninstalled CCC crap and installed WDM drivers only, but the flickering and ghosting wasnt solved. However i noticed better colors and less ringing

Then i went here and found this thread with some people having the same problem. So i did what madshi said in the thread (uncheck first option of trading quality for performance) and guess what, flickering disappeared. Now i just spot from time to time some minor ghosting in slow movement scenes like face movement when talking, nothing harmfull.

Now my problem is i have 60HZ screen with no 24p option and i have 23,976 and 25 FPS material. Do i need to use reclock pal speed down when watching 25 FPS with madvr smooth motion on??

I tested both and it gave me flickering with reclock and without reclock minor ghosting, but more than i have with 23,976 material

TIA
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Old 17th July 2013, 17:57   #19603  |  Link
huhn
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use smooth motion when you play 23p or 25p on an display with 60 hz.

smooth motion looks better when the display is set to the highest possible refresh rate.

when using smooth motion is used on 23 p displays with 23p material it stops frame drop/repeats but makes the picture a little bit more unsharp.

just read this:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1616520#post1616520
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Old 17th July 2013, 20:43   #19604  |  Link
xabregas
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I dont really care about sharpness loss as i can do sharp with ffsdhow/ ffsdshow raw if i wish or with driver settings, the problem was the flickering and knowing if i need to use reclock or not. So reclock isnt needed at all when smooth motion is on and ive just unchecked the trade quality for performance option. Anyway just the smooth in quickly action scenes and fight scenes is awesome. There are movies i saw without smooth motion and when i see them now for me its completly new. Some figh scenes i now can clearly see what happens, AMAZING

But still 1 option in trade quality for performance is checked (store custom pixel shader results in 16bit buffer. instead of 32bit Wonder what it does

I have an ati HD7770 and im in windows 8 x64

TIA
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Old 17th July 2013, 23:06   #19605  |  Link
DragonQ
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madshi, if I play a 1080i/30 file which is really 1080p/24 and then turn on IVTC, it plays back properly at 24 fps. However, smooth motion doesn't enable (60 Hz monitor) and "movie" is still set to 29.970 fps. A bug?
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Old 18th July 2013, 00:27   #19606  |  Link
e-t172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
madshi, if I play a 1080i/30 file which is really 1080p/24 and then turn on IVTC, it plays back properly at 24 fps. However, smooth motion doesn't enable (60 Hz monitor) and "movie" is still set to 29.970 fps. A bug?
Smooth motion with 1080i30 IVTC looks perfectly fine on my system.
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Old 18th July 2013, 04:33   #19607  |  Link
dansrfe
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Is BFI planned for any future madVR build? Just curious...
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Old 18th July 2013, 12:04   #19608  |  Link
DragonQ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e-t172 View Post
Smooth motion with 1080i30 IVTC looks perfectly fine on my system.
With a 60 Hz monitor and "only if there would be motion judder without it" ticked?
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Last edited by DragonQ; 18th July 2013 at 12:07.
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Old 18th July 2013, 19:10   #19609  |  Link
leeperry
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Talking about BFI, this link is rather interesting

Of course it dims the display and will make light bleeding/clouding even more noticeable as you'll be forced to increase the backlight brightness in order to compensate, but on Sammy TV's BFI really does wonders to my eyes(that just can't bear PWM dimming and have been watching CRT's since forever).

I've spent a few hours playing around with several 2013 Sammy TV's and as much as the new 5 serie provides BFI & DNIE(serie 4 only provides BFI), in the 6 serie you can only enable BFI if you have FI enabled, duh! That sure wasn't the case in the 2012 models, impressive failtastic choice here...as I had my eyes on the 32F6800, in order to increase my chances of winning the panel lottery

Anyway UHD is coming and as much as the current HDMI specs would only allow 2160p up to 30Hz, several of them seem to allow 1080p@120Hz so I believe BFI from the PC would make sense.

Either way, even at 100% brightness all the PC monitors I've seen hurt my eyes so I dunno wth is up.....OTOH even the cheapest TV's don't, so it might indeed be a problem with PWM after all

PS: ouuuuh 500Hz Native Refresh Rate — No Interpolation!

Last edited by leeperry; 18th July 2013 at 19:20.
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Old 18th July 2013, 23:07   #19610  |  Link
mdrejhon
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Here's a web-based demonstration of black frame insertion:

www.testufo.com/#test=blackframes

You need a very recent web browser for these precision animations. I recommend Chrome when viewing the above link. (FireFox won't play smoothly until Version 24+ pre-beta)
Try out the other UFO motion tests selectable at top-right corner, including the Optical Illusion Demo as well as 30fps-vs-60fps Demo.

Note: I'm the one who runs the Blur Busters Blog.

Last edited by mdrejhon; 18th July 2013 at 23:11.
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Old 18th July 2013, 23:55   #19611  |  Link
dansrfe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrejhon View Post
Here's a web-based demonstration of black frame insertion:

www.testufo.com/#test=blackframes
I'm running chrome 30 and I see "poor performance" when running the BFI test above. ~32 fps, ~32Hz, ~30 PPF, ~960 PPS. I'm running no other tabs, browsers or other applications other than a code editor. i7, GTX 670, 16GB RAM.

Maybe you need to use requestAnimationFrame? Or are you already? https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/...AnimationFrame

Last edited by dansrfe; 19th July 2013 at 00:14.
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Old 19th July 2013, 00:45   #19612  |  Link
Mark Rejhon
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(EDIT: It appears I somehow have an old duplicate account created many years ago, I'll need to ask a mod to remove 'mdrejhon')

-- It already is. Launch chrome://gpu and make sure Chrome is GPU accelerated in all categories. If you've made modifications to your high-precision timer, this can interfere. If you are using a SLI/multimonitor system, there's a Chrome issue regarding that (I've forgotten the Chromium bug #). Alternatively, try FireFox 24+ Aurora.
-- You can try IE10, if you're only using a 60Hz monitor. It also synchronizes to VSYNC too.
-- I just prefer Chrome since it supports 120fps@120Hz on 120Hz monitors. My weblogs shows several 120Hz and 144Hz users playing these animations at full framerates (e.g. 120fps@120Hz).
-- Supported browsers (if GPU accelerated): FF24+, Opera15+, Chrome18+, IE10+, and Mac's Safari6+. The TestUFO site performs at 60fps on iPads too (iPad 2 and newer)
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Last edited by Mark Rejhon; 19th July 2013 at 00:58.
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Old 19th July 2013, 01:28   #19613  |  Link
turbojet
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Thanks for the tests, they work fine here with Chrome 28 and many tabs open.

I'm not sure I prefer 30+BFI over 30fps, bfi is higher clarity but the pulsating gave me a headache within a minute. Maybe it takes some getting used to but currently prefer the occasional blended frame with frc to it.

Users that are asking for bfi, is it to replace or complement frc?
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Old 19th July 2013, 02:01   #19614  |  Link
Mark Rejhon
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Ah yes -- www.testufo.com/#test=blackframes is just a demo of software-based BFI, which flickers like a 30Hz CRT to show how flicker can reduce motion blur. I agree, 30Hz flicker is annoying! But that web animation is actually quite useful to help people understand how and why BFI reduces motion blur. If you have a 120Hz monitor, you can also do software-based BFI to have blur-free 60fps@120Hz, and the 60Hz flicker is far less annoying.

Ideally, hardware-based BFI at 120Hz or 240Hz is even better. That eliminates the flicker annoyance for most. Some 120Hz monitors with LightBoost actually already do this, by turning off the backlight while waiting for LCD pixels to finish refreshing (high speed video), and strobing between the refreshes. They flicker like a 120Hz CRT, but that allows the CRT motion clarity effect during 120fps@120Hz videogames, as well as zero-motion-blur playback of 120fps videos (e.g. pre-interpolated first with SmoothVideo, etc).

P.S. Another fun animation is the optical illusion at www.testufo.com/#test=eyetracking

Last edited by Mark Rejhon; 19th July 2013 at 02:13.
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Old 19th July 2013, 02:10   #19615  |  Link
dansrfe
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I just tested my browser's fps capability on this page: http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/pe...k/default.html (with 1000 fish) and it renders at 60fps. Not sure why the BFI test says poor performance and stops at ~30fps...

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Old 19th July 2013, 08:14   #19616  |  Link
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So, the first official/public XySubFilter beta has been released and since it is - to my knowledge - the only filter making use of a new (open) custom subtitle interface supported by madVR, it might be of interest to some:
http://code.google.com/p/xy-vsfilter...easeNotes?tm=6 (changelog/description)
http://code.google.com/p/xy-vsfilter...Downloads?tm=2 (download, scroll down to XySubFilter)

Unlike (xy-)vsfilter, it renders subtitles at the target resolution instead of the video resolution, so subtitle quality can get enhanced greatly. Since most video content is 4:2:0 this even goes for 1080p videos on a 1080p screen, although the difference is not that big as for in this example SD videos. The difference to the internal MPC-HC subtitle filter is the new interface and huge (performance) improvements, bug fixes and maybe some features. Since it does not sit between the video decoder and madVR it is compatible with DXVA2 (native).

Any questions that are not directly related to the madVR<>XySubFilter interaction should be posed in the following thread to not stray off the topic of this thread too far:
xy-VSFilter Project (High Performance VSFilter Compatible Subtitle Filters)

Last edited by sneaker_ger; 19th July 2013 at 23:48.
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Old 19th July 2013, 14:04   #19617  |  Link
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Well, since madvr is currently the only renderer supporting XySubFilter, I imagine most questions will be posted here anyway.
Here's the first one: I have the latest mpc-hc+madvr+xysubfilter beta. The .ass subtitles are rendered in an opaque black box instead of blending it unto the video, does anyone else have this problem?
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Old 19th July 2013, 14:24   #19618  |  Link
xabregas
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So i use MPC internal subtitle filter. Why should i change to xyvsfilter?

My problem with vsfilter is that i always need to extend to 16:9 to put subtitles in the black bars when watching 2.35 movies and i always feel the filter mess up the PQ a bit
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Old 19th July 2013, 14:25   #19619  |  Link
kasper93
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@sneaker_ger, please make new thread for it. No need to spam in madVR thread.
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Old 19th July 2013, 14:42   #19620  |  Link
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Quote:
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@sneaker_ger, please make new thread for it. No need to spam in madVR thread.
It's most certainly a useful post and is somewhat related. He was aware it was not the place for discussion and made the appropriate remark.
Personally I think Cyberbeing should make a new thread for it here but there is one over at the CCCP forum where I suggest people direct their questions and issues right now.
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