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Old 21st February 2013, 16:51   #1  |  Link
Sn8kbordin
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BD backups streamed to PS3 with lossless audio

I just bought a Synology 412+ NAS box. I want to store my BD back ups on it which then would be streamed to PS3.
For video I will use some CRF with x264. For audio track I would like to be able to keep loss less audio.

Is it possible to stream to PlayStation 3 videos like that?
What format should they be in and what format the audio track should be in?

Last edited by Sn8kbordin; 22nd February 2013 at 15:25.
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Old 21st February 2013, 17:27   #2  |  Link
paradoxical
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I don't think the PS3 does support streaming lossless audio. You'll either have to accept a compressed format or LPCM.
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Old 21st February 2013, 17:33   #3  |  Link
Sn8kbordin
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I would like to give LPCM a shot then.

What container should the movie be in?

Or any pointers, links to tutorials or more info are welcome.
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Old 21st February 2013, 17:34   #4  |  Link
paradoxical
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I'm guessing try mp4 or TS. But I'm not sure it'll support LPCM in those.

This has what the PS3 will play as videos.

Last edited by paradoxical; 21st February 2013 at 17:37.
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Old 22nd February 2013, 15:23   #5  |  Link
Sn8kbordin
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Thanks!
I'll give it a try and see what happens. I highly doubt that by "Dolby Digital" Sony meant including DD TrueHD or DD+.

Quote:
The following types of files can be played under (Video).

Memory Stick Video Format
- MPEG-4 SP (AAC LC)
- H.264/MPEG-4 AVC High Profile (AAC LC)
- MPEG-2 TS(H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, AAC LC)
MP4 file format
- H.264/MPEG-4 AVC High Profile (AAC LC)
MPEG-1 (MPEG Audio Layer 2)
MPEG-2 PS (MPEG2 Audio Layer 2, AAC LC, AC3(Dolby Digital), LPCM)
MPEG-2 TS(MPEG2 Audio Layer 2, AC3(Dolby Digital), AAC LC)
MPEG-2 TS(H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, AAC LC)
AVI
- Motion JPEG (Linear PCM)
- Motion JPEG (μ-Law)
AVCHD (.m2ts / .mts)
DivX
WMV
- VC-1(WMA Standard V2)
Well there is something called "MPEG-2 PS" that has LPCM in it and "MPEG-2 TS" and "MPEG-2 PS" have Dolby Digital.
PS - program stream
TS - transport stream (*.m2ts)

Wikipedia says this about *.m2ts
Quote:
Overview

The BDAV container format is a modification of MPEG-2 transport stream (ITU-T H.222.0 | ISO/IEC 13818-1) specification for random-access media, such as Blu-ray Disc, DVD, hard drives or solid-state memory cards. The 188 byte packet size is increased by a 4 byte timestamp to 192 bytes. It is informally called M2TS.

The BDAV container format (.m2ts) is a standard used on Blu-ray Discs.[7][8][9] Blu-ray Disc titles authored with menu support are in the BDMV (Blu-ray Disc Movie) format and contain audio, video, and other streams in BDAV container (.m2ts), which is based on the MPEG transport stream format.[4][5] The BDAV container is also used in the BDAV (Blu-ray Disc Audio/Visual) disc format, the consumer-oriented alternative to the BDMV discs. BDAV disc format is used on BD-RE and BD-R discs for audio/video recording.[5][10]

The BDAV container with filename extension .MTS or .m2ts is also used in AVCHD format, which is a high definition digital video camera recorder format.[11] AVCHD is a simpler form of the Blu-ray Disc standard with just one video encoding algorithm and two audio encodings.[11][12] Compared to Blu-ray Disc format, AVCHD can use various storage media, such as DVD media, memory cards or hard disk drives. The BDAV container contains videos recorded using AVCHD camcorders, such as Sony's HDR-SR(xx)series models. Panasonic, Canon and other brands of AVCHD camcorders also store recorded video in BDAV container format. There are some problems with AVCHD compatibility between brands.
Formats

The BDAV container format used on Blu-ray Discs can contain one of the three mandatory supported video compression formats H.262/MPEG-2 Part 2, H.264/MPEG-4 AVC or SMPTE VC-1[13] and audio compression formats such as Dolby Digital, DTS or uncompressed Linear PCM. Optionally supported audio formats are Dolby Digital Plus, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio and Dolby TrueHD.[9][14]

The BDAV container format used on AVCHD equipment is more restricted and can contain only H.264/MPEG-4 AVC video compression and Dolby Digital (AC-3) audio compression or uncompressed LPCM audio.[12]
Figures... Sony using defined specs but just some parts of it.
This is enough info to get me start trial and error.

THank you.

Last edited by Sn8kbordin; 22nd February 2013 at 15:26.
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Old 22nd February 2013, 15:39   #6  |  Link
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Also, I forgot to mention, the goal is to playback the streamed videos on PS3 without trans-coding.
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Old 22nd February 2013, 16:34   #7  |  Link
paradoxical
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn8kbordin View Post
I highly doubt that by "Dolby Digital" Sony meant including DD TrueHD or DD+.
Of course not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn8kbordin View Post
Well there is something called "MPEG-2 PS" that has LPCM in it and "MPEG-2 TS" and "MPEG-2 PS" have Dolby Digital.
PS - program stream
TS - transport stream (*.m2ts)
Yes, but MPEG-2 PS is really for MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 video. IIRC technically you can put MPEG-4 Part 2 in a PS but this is would hardly be a common thing so I'm not sure what the PS3 would do with it. And it's almost certain that you're not getting AVC in PS supported. Also, I'm not sure that in the case of PS that the PS3 would support anything but mono or stereo LPCM tracks like DVD does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn8kbordin View Post
Also, I forgot to mention, the goal is to playback the streamed videos on PS3 without trans-coding.
In the case of your audio, it's highly doubtful you'll get away without transcoding.

Last edited by paradoxical; 22nd February 2013 at 16:40.
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Old 22nd February 2013, 17:07   #8  |  Link
Sn8kbordin
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Only one way to find out. I didn't find any info on that so it will be trial and error but at least I have some direction to go in. It's not like it costs anything. Maybe I'll get some results this week.

I hate that manufactures say that their product works with a spec, only to find out that their product is made to work with just some of that spec. And then their product works when you break the specs. They block "features" for "security" and then don't secure the info they get from customers and give free credit reports to see how much trouble you are in for trusting them. But I rather find a solution to what I want PS3 to do then discuss what's wrong.

Last edited by Sn8kbordin; 22nd February 2013 at 17:11.
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Old 22nd February 2013, 17:18   #9  |  Link
paradoxical
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You're confusing things. The MPEG-2 TS they are referring to is not to the extended BDAV container. They are referring to the transport stream as defined in MPEG-2 Part 1 in ISO/IEC standard 13818-1. It predates any of those lossless HD audio formats.

Last edited by paradoxical; 22nd February 2013 at 17:22.
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Old 22nd February 2013, 17:26   #10  |  Link
Sn8kbordin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical View Post
You're confusing things. The MPEG-2 TS they are referring to is not to the extended BDAV container. They are referring to the transport stream as defined in MPEG-2 Part 1 in ISO/IEC standard 13818-1. It predates any of those lossless HD formats.
Sony doesn't mention anything about "BDAV" in the section about what can be played back on the PS3.

I just found out what MPEG-2 TS and PS is today. I thought it had MPEG2 encoded video files in it with .ts extension. All those standards are new to me.

Can you be more clear about what do you mean?
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Old 22nd February 2013, 17:32   #11  |  Link
paradoxical
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Sony doesn't mention anything about "BDAV" in the section about what can be played back on the PS3.
That's the point. BDAV is an extended version of MPEG-2 TS. It is not what is being referred to in the video formats section. That is why MPEG-2 TS list does not support the audio formats that BDAV does. If they had meant BDAV it would have said "BDAV" not MPEG-2 TS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn8kbordin View Post
I just found out what MPEG-2 TS and PS is today. I thought it had MPEG2 encoded video files in it with .ts extension. All those standards are new to me.
The name is misleading but that is not what it means. MPEG-2 TS is just a generic container standard for MPEG streams. It can contain MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-4 Part 2 and MPEG-4 Part 10 video. Obviously the latter format requiring a new revision in 2007.

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Originally Posted by Sn8kbordin View Post
Can you be more clear about what do you mean?
Clear about what?

Last edited by paradoxical; 22nd February 2013 at 17:34.
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Old 22nd February 2013, 17:37   #12  |  Link
Sn8kbordin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical View Post
...

Clear about what?
Your last post cleared it up. Thank you.
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Old 22nd February 2013, 17:39   #13  |  Link
paradoxical
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn8kbordin View Post
Your last post cleared it up. Thank you.
Good to hear. Yes, all this stuff can be quite confusing. Especially with the BDAV container being given the "m2ts" extensions it further muddies things misleading people to think that MPEG-2 TS means "m2ts".
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