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Old 30th May 2018, 15:22   #51101  |  Link
SamuriHL
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Yea, the drops in 3D on nVidia is very noticeable. If there's a way to improve that, I'd be all over it. Lately I can't even get a 2D custom res to work all that well for my panasonic plasma. sigh.
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Old 30th May 2018, 15:49   #51102  |  Link
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Yea, the drops in 3D on nVidia is very noticeable. If there's a way to improve that, I'd be all over it. Lately I can't even get a 2D custom res to work all that well for my panasonic plasma. sigh.
I was not aware that 3D behavior was different from 2D on the custom resolution. (i do not read 3D in fact)
Does someone here knows the root cause ?

If you have also problem with 2D , it is probably because even if you modify and create a custom resolution for your Pana, it does not take into account and keep using his EDID settings to display.

In this case, 2 solutions :
1. modifiy the EDID instead of creating custom resolutions
2. create a multiple of your frequency but apply the settings of the real frequency.(and , of course, modify this setting in madVR by replacing for example 1080p23 by 1080p47) in that case, you "turn-around" the system lock.

On my Pana plasma , i apply the second solution because i prefer to avoid to modify the EDID file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
If your display allows it, sure.
Unfortunately that's not the case for many of us, especially with projectors.
Exact. i see you have a JVC and it is a mess with this brand....
I have already spent hours and hours with one JVC of my friend to try to make it accept a new setting without blanck screen....

Sony and Epson are really more flexible !

Last edited by Polopretress; 30th May 2018 at 16:01.
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Old 30th May 2018, 16:19   #51103  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by Polopretress View Post
Exact. i see you have a JVC and it is a mess with this brand....
I have already spent hours and hours with one JVC of my friend to try to make it accept a new setting without blanck screen....
There is only one custom refresh rate setting that works with the JVCs (at least mine) with my 1080Ti and it's the EDID/CTA. That's the one that gives me 50-60mn between drops in 4K24 (2D). There is no need to "train" MadVR for 30mn, just select it and apply it. I haven't tested any other res/refresh rate as I don't really care.
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Last edited by Manni; 30th May 2018 at 16:23.
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Old 30th May 2018, 16:37   #51104  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Manni View Post
3-5mn in 3D sucks and makes it close to useless to those of us sensitive to frame drops though, and there doesn't seem to be a way to improve this, sadly.
Just a short comment while still having piles of commercial work on my desk:

Thanks to my great Nvidia driver contact, I managed to get a fix for 1080p23 timings into newer driver versions. So stock 1080p23 timings should be much better now with newer drivers, probably also for 3D. I know, the newest drivers come with their own problems, so many are still using older driver versions. But JFYI...
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Old 30th May 2018, 17:12   #51105  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Just a short comment while still having piles of commercial work on my desk:

Thanks to my great Nvidia driver contact, I managed to get a fix for 1080p23 timings into newer driver versions. So stock 1080p23 timings should be much better now with newer drivers, probably also for 3D. I know, the newest drivers come with their own problems, so many are still using older driver versions. But JFYI...
Wow, that's great news, thanks!

I hope they'll solve the levels issue at the same time, that's the main problem with the latest drivers.

And good luck with your commercial work
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Old 30th May 2018, 18:50   #51106  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Just a short comment while still having piles of commercial work on my desk:

Thanks to my great Nvidia driver contact, I managed to get a fix for 1080p23 timings into newer driver versions. So stock 1080p23 timings should be much better now with newer drivers, probably also for 3D. I know, the newest drivers come with their own problems, so many are still using older driver versions. But JFYI...
Great news, thank you and best of luck with your work.
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Old 30th May 2018, 18:52   #51107  |  Link
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Wow, that's great news, thanks!

I hope they'll solve the levels issue at the same time, that's the main problem with the latest drivers.

And good luck with your commercial work
What levels issue do you have? I'm on last drivers and didn't notice anything!
GPU 0-255, madVR and TV 16-235
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Old 30th May 2018, 19:08   #51108  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Just a short comment while still having piles of commercial work on my desk:

Thanks to my great Nvidia driver contact, I managed to get a fix for 1080p23 timings into newer driver versions. So stock 1080p23 timings should be much better now with newer drivers, probably also for 3D. I know, the newest drivers come with their own problems, so many are still using older driver versions. But JFYI...


dunno, if that makes a difference, but i allmost never had a problem with the NVidia drivers..
BUT, i also DONT use teh GeForce drivers, i do use Quadro drivers that i modd beforehand to install it on my gtx670.
Maybe worth a try for the ones having problems..
I do feel, that the quadro drivers are more stable and have less Bugs/Problems..

Greetings..
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Old 30th May 2018, 20:17   #51109  |  Link
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Well, out of a pure fluke and messing about for a long time, then giving up when I had at best 38 Mins frame repeats which was livable...

I came across this post on a random Google search...

1. Go to Nvidia Control Panel
2. Change the Resolution to 23 HZ (I left this one at 24hz and it made no difference)
3. Create Custom Resolution With Following Settings:

Horizontal Pixels: 1920

Vertical Lines: 1080

Refresh Rate: 23


Timing:

Standard: Manual


Horizontal:

Active Pixels: 1920

Front Porch(pixels): 638

Sync width(pixels): 44

Total Pixels: 2750

Polarity: Positive


Vertical:

Active Pixels: 1080

Front Porch(pixels): 4

Sync width(pixels): 5

Total Pixels: 1124

Polarity: Positive


Hz: 23.976



I'm using a 1050 and 390.77 drivers, and I am now getting 8 hrs + without a frame repeat on 1080p, and 2160p->1080p.

I never did get the MadVR ones to work, well any better than the Nvidia, and CRU and the likes were a pain for me for some reason.

It takes a minute and actually sits at 23.9755 ish, and the deviation locks out at 0.00230% or something like that and all good.

Sorted.
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Old 30th May 2018, 20:58   #51110  |  Link
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It is the standard setting except -1 in total pixel vertical (means -1 in vertical back porch) ==> you are just lucky.
Just for information, you do not have to focus on the time displayed for the first frame drop/repeat occurs if you have a deviation clock of this value. just focus on the value of "display" because the value of the time counter is wrong.

For having deviation clock at this value, you probably use MPC-be (or equivalent).
Potplayer is not creating clock deviation (will trend to 0.00000% after few seconds) and in this situation the value of time counter (1 frame repeat/drop every is correct and consistent with the value of "display" indicator.
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Old 30th May 2018, 21:08   #51111  |  Link
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It is the standard setting except -1 in total pixel vertical (means -1 in vertical back porch) ==> you are just lucky.
Just for information, you do not have to focus on the time displayed for the first frame drop/repeat occurs if you have a deviation clock of this value. just focus on the value of "display" because the value of the time counter is wrong.

For having deviation clock at this value, you probably use MPC-be (or equivalent).
Potplayer is not creating clock deviation (will trend to 0.00000% after few seconds) and in this situation the value of time counter (1 frame repeat/drop every is correct and consistent with the value of "display" indicator.
I don't think Im lucky, I have messed with the odd pixel here and there and never achieved anything like this, there were also a few people on the thread that got good results with it, a bit like the MadVR customs that I had no joy with.

I am using MPC-HC and KODI and Dsplayer, KODI gives even better results.

I also assume you are not Bitstreaming DTS-HD or TrueHD via HDMI to get 0.000000% and POT player uses some sort of re-clock, which is no use to people who want to Bitstream.
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Old 30th May 2018, 21:10   #51112  |  Link
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Clock deviation makes no real difference. madVR accounts for it when calculating the repeat/drop timer, you just need to play long enough for it to stabilize, and the ultimate test is for every setup to just play a 2 hour movie and check the stats afterwards (clear them after launch to get rid of the first drops during startup).
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Old 30th May 2018, 21:16   #51113  |  Link
madjock
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Clock deviation makes no real difference. madVR accounts for it when calculating the repeat/drop timer, you just need to play long enough for it to stabilize, and the ultimate test is for every setup to just play a 2 hour movie and check the stats afterwards (clear them after launch to get rid of the first drops during startup).

I agree, but previous to this and after attempting lots and lots of custom resolutions, changing the odd pixel, using manual after setting different timings, I would get something like 23.9756-ish sat steady-ish and at best 38 Mins per frame drop.

Now with these figures I have applied, it is lower that 23.9756, yet the frame repeats have gone to the hours, at best they used to reach an hr and drop back and stabilize at 36-38 mins.

I think its as good as I am going to get for sure.

Last edited by madjock; 30th May 2018 at 21:22.
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Old 30th May 2018, 21:22   #51114  |  Link
Manni
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What levels issue do you have? I'm on last drivers and didn't notice anything!
GPU 0-255, madVR and TV 16-235
I also use RGB Full, MadVR and TV 16-235, but this doesn't work for me with 391.x. That and the other issues I reported a while back (broken Asio4all compatibility and a few other things).

It could be specific to my JVC display but the levels are completely borked for me with 391.x

Borked as in it's not possible to find a combination of settings that results in the correct levels both in SDR and in HDR.

I tried to set all GPU/MadVR/Display to 0-255 and a few other combos, it's just a no go. Levels simply don't match, blacks are either crushed or raised, there is no combo that gives me black at 16 in SDR and 64 in HDR.

I know many don't have this levels issue, and I'm happy for them
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Old 30th May 2018, 21:33   #51115  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Manni View Post
I also use RGB Full, MadVR and TV 16-235, but this doesn't work for me with 391.x. That and the other issues I reported a while back (broken Asio4all compatibility and a few other things).
Latest driver version is 397.93, maybe you get lucky.
Try clean install using DDU.

Cheers
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Old 30th May 2018, 22:02   #51116  |  Link
Manni
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Latest driver version is 397.93, maybe you get lucky.
Try clean install using DDU.

Cheers
Yeah, that's what I do with every single new driver, before reverting to 385.28.

I did see the 397.93 and want to test it in case the refresh rate for 3D is fixed. Didn't have the time yet...
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Old 30th May 2018, 22:47   #51117  |  Link
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@Manni

Just been reading this thread
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...jector-24.html

Lots of good information, but if anyone asked about anything other than projectors they were told to use the correct thread.

I have not seen a lot of information on using the HDR->SDR options for a standard 1080p HDTV and doing 2160p->1080p.

I don't have fancy calibration equipment and the likes but from all the things you have learned with all the discussion, what would you class as a good standard for HDR->SDR with the latest MadVR, as the more I read the more it seemed to jump between person to person, which I get, but it does seem to be a grey area.


I guess I am also a little confused by HDR->SDR conversion, as although I get the comparisons with SDR, is that what everyone aims at, would we not hope to get it looking better than SDR if thats possible on a non SDR set ?
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Old 30th May 2018, 23:04   #51118  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Just a short comment while still having piles of commercial work on my desk:

Thanks to my great Nvidia driver contact, I managed to get a fix for 1080p23 timings into newer driver versions. So stock 1080p23 timings should be much better now with newer drivers, probably also for 3D. I know, the newest drivers come with their own problems, so many are still using older driver versions. But JFYI...
Just tested 397.93, and I have good news and bad news:

Good news is that your friend delivered (partly) in 1080p23 for 3D (I didn't test 2D). I now get 13min between frame drops, which is a significant improvement compared to the 3min of previous drivers (at least those I had tested).

Bad news is that the levels are still borked (both in SDR and HDR), however I found why I have the issue and many others don't: the levels are only borked in 12bits, not in 8bits. So it looks like between the banding in passthrough and the borked levels, nVidia shows little love for their 12bits setting.

You would think that the solution is easy: use 8bits in the GPU... Well, that works fine for 2D and 3D SDR, unfortunately Passthrough HDR is borked in 8bits on the JVCs (not in 12bits!) and you get at all refresh rates (at least in UHD) the magenta bug that I only have on 4K60p with previous drivers. The only way to get rid of it is, like with the 4K60 magenta bug, is to disable the "send HDR metadata", which as you know is a no no for me until we get the ability to switch HDR profiles according to max brightness with pixel shader, as the Vertex relies on this to select my custom curve. It is, however, a viable workaround for those whose display doesn't need HDR Metadata.

So pick your poison:

385.28: everything works but 1 frame drop every 3mn in 3D.

397.93: better 3D (13min between frame drops), Asio4all compatibility still broken, levels still borked in 12bits (at least with the JVCs), HDR passthrough borked on JVCs in 8bits.

Aaaargh!

Thanks a lot for your efforts and your friends though, but I'm back to 385.28 if I don't find a way to get rid of the magenta bug in 8bits, at least until I can switch to pixel shader.

397.93 is probably 100% good news for non JVC users who don't care about Asio4All.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madjock View Post
@Manni
I have not seen a lot of information on using the HDR->SDR options for a standard 1080p HDTV and doing 2160p->1080p.

I don't have fancy calibration equipment and the likes but from all the things you have learned with all the discussion, what would you class as a good standard for HDR->SDR with the latest MadVR, as the more I read the more it seemed to jump between person to person, which I get, but it does seem to be a grey area.
I'll let others reply. The AVS thread is indeed reserved to ongoing work on MadVR's HDR to SDR conversion with pixel shader for projectors, and it's not a support thread for MadVR projector users either, at least not at this stage, as it's a work in progress. HDR10 is a grey area because there is no standard and every display is different. HDR to SDR, when done well, is the same as HDR. It's just that the source (MadVR here) does the conversion instead of the display. But provided you use the correct settings, it can look as good or better than the HDR mode on the display.

So I suggest you post your display model and hope that someone can make suggestions for you.
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Last edited by Manni; 31st May 2018 at 10:38.
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Old 30th May 2018, 23:11   #51119  |  Link
madjock
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Just tested 397.93, and I have good news and bad news:

Good news is that your friend delivered (partly) in 1080p23 for 3D (I didn't test 2D). I now get 13min between frame drops, which is a significant improvement compared to the 3-5min of previous drivers (at least those I had tested).

Bad news is that the levels are still borked, however I found why I have the issue and many others don't: the levels are only borked in 12bits, not in 8bits. So it looks like between the banding in passthrough and the borked levels, nVidia shows little love for their 12bits setting.

You would think that the solution is easy: use 8bits in the GPU... Well, That works fine for 2D and 3D SDR, unfortunately HDR is borked in 8bits on the JVCs and you get at all refresh rates (at least in UHD) the magenta bug that I only have on 4K60p with previous drivers. The only way to get rid of it is, like with the 4K60 magenta bug, is to disable the "send HDR metadata", which as you know is a no no for me until we get the ability to switch HDR profiles according to max brightness with pixel shader, as the Vertex relies on this to select my custom curve. It is, however, a viable workaround for those whose display doesn't need HDR Metadata.

So pick your poison:

385.28: everything works but 1 frame drop every 3-5min in 3D.

397.93: better 3D (13min between frame drops), Asio4all compatibility still broken, levels borked in 12bits, HDR borked on JVCs in 8bits.

Aaaargh!

Thanks a lot for your efforts and your friends though, but I'm back to 385.28 if I don't find a way to get rid of the magenta bug in 8bits, at least until I can switch to pixel shader.



I'll let others reply. The AVS thread is indeed reserved to ongoing work on MadVR's HDR to SDR conversion with pixel shader for projectors, and it's not a support thread for MadVR projector users either, at least not at this stage, as it's a work in progress. HDR10 is a grey area because there is no standard and every display is different.

So I suggest you post your display model and hope that someone can make suggestions for you.
Ok no problem. I understand all that you have said but as you say there are so many TV models then the chances may be slim, also with some people doing calibrations and other using a default built into MadVR this also muddys the water.

Was just looking for a middle of the road default that applys to most things as the thread was suggesting, but like most I guess it boils down to what people like or don't like.

Thanks for replying anyway.
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Old 30th May 2018, 23:32   #51120  |  Link
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Is it safe to install the Windows 10 Spring update? Or did it do something to mess up MadVr?
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