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Old 10th September 2017, 07:32   #5581  |  Link
x265_Project
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Originally Posted by LigH View Post
Knowing some of the efforts Multicoreware did to develop x265, I believe we can summarize already beforehand: Being both faster and better is a miracle...

Speed is an objective metric, you can measure it.

Quality is a subjective metric, you have to ask people for their opinions; the more people participate in giving their opinions, the better the result should cover a majority of opinions.

Better quality is usually preserved by more efforts, which require more time; or it requires more space. For a fair speed-vs-quality comparison, at least the size should be as similar as possible. If there is already a remarkable size difference, then you don't need to care about the algorithmic efforts taken for quality preservation anymore, the bitrate difference already makes the test unfair. (Just like comparing accelerating cars: Nothing substitutes cylinder capacity, except more cylinder capacity.)
Why didn't they compare speed when you give both encoders 16 threads or more? Why didn't they conduct this test on a Skylake, Skylake-X or Purley Xeon system, instead of a 4 year old Haswell system? Do you think they didn't test our other performance presets before they decided to show a comparison against Ultrafast, Medium and Veryslow? Why didn't they test 1080P or smaller picture sizes? Do you think that these were the only test sequences (videos) they tried?

Obviously, a competitor can run many tests to find some combination of conditions that enables their product to compare most favorably, and cherry-pick these results. We can't do the same because they won't provide their encoder to us, or to 3rd parties for a fair comparison.

But in the end, even with a cherry-picked test design, when I compare the video, I see nothing but a big win for x265.
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Old 10th September 2017, 11:55   #5582  |  Link
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Originally Posted by x265_Project View Post
But in the end, even with a cherry-picked test design, when I compare the video, I see nothing but a big win for x265.
And it's hard to counter this test without a copy of their encoder to run the "flan case" tests on a large variety of machines and with a more equal selection of parameters. Even if you can find a machine very similar to their test environment, you could only run the freely available software.
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Old 10th September 2017, 12:13   #5583  |  Link
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And it's hard to counter this test without a copy of their encoder to run the "flan case" tests on a large variety of machines and with a more equal selection of parameters. Even if you can find a machine very similar to their test environment, you could only run the freely available software.
Exactly. It very fishy that they do not provide encoder for testing.
For me Beam "something" is just another rip-off company selling nothing but "fake news".
I'm 100% sure that their "superior" encoder would fall apart to tiny pieces in park_joy or crowd_run.

Last edited by Atak_Snajpera; 10th September 2017 at 12:15.
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Old 10th September 2017, 12:28   #5584  |  Link
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@all

Don't be afraid of the competition.

The way system works, it's probably the only way to get things better.

But it has to be real and fair competition in order to work.
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Old 10th September 2017, 12:50   #5585  |  Link
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Why didn't they conduct this test on a Skylake, Skylake-X or Purley Xeon system, instead of a 4 year old Haswell system?
Because the average users computer age is that old ?
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Old 10th September 2017, 13:02   #5586  |  Link
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@all

Don't be afraid of the competition.

The way system works, it's probably the only way to get things better.

But it has to be real and fair competition in order to work.
How can we talk about fair competition if their encoder is NOT available for testing? We all have seen over last years bold claims that some new "super-codec" beats x264 by 50% for example.
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Old 10th September 2017, 15:51   #5587  |  Link
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Indeed, just remember V-Nova Perseus ... which turned out to be no codec on its own, just a high-frequency spectral band (noise) modeller, like HE-AAC or mp3Pro.
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Old 10th September 2017, 23:42   #5588  |  Link
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Indeed, just remember V-Nova Perseus ... which turned out to be no codec on its own, just a high-frequency spectral band (noise) modeller, like HE-AAC or mp3Pro.
No further news or testing on this? It seemed promising for ultra low bandwidth.
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Old 11th September 2017, 12:36   #5589  |  Link
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Because the average users computer age is that old ?
Actually, it was a Xeon E5 v2 (Ivy Bridge) processor, with no AVX2 support. No, I don't think it was because the average user's computer is that old. Beamr isn't trying to win any consumer business - they're shooting for commercial customers who run on servers. I think it's clear this was hand selected from among the possible options because it seems to favor their encoder the most.
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Old 11th September 2017, 14:32   #5590  |  Link
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My response to Beamr - http://x265.org/beamr-hevc-encoder-comparison/
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Old 11th September 2017, 20:03   #5591  |  Link
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Hmm ... from "Epic Face Off" to "Epic Burn"?
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Old 11th September 2017, 22:45   #5592  |  Link
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Originally Posted by x265_Project View Post
Beamr are even gunning for your UHDcode Pro Player, as well: http://beamr.com/h264-hevc-video-comparison-player/

Watch out they don't file a sniper patent, like McDonalds did with sandwiches. That way, they can list 24 pending patents as (dubious) benefit no. 1 instead of only 23
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Old 12th September 2017, 05:09   #5593  |  Link
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Beamr are even gunning for your UHDcode Pro Player, as well: http://beamr.com/h264-hevc-video-comparison-player/
Yes, Vanguard copied our Pro Player years ago, before Beamr bought them.
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Old 14th September 2017, 11:17   #5594  |  Link
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Re-encode UHD

Good day,

my first post, although I follow this thread for a long time now, so first things first:
I'd like to thank you for your work. It's amazing how much effort you put into such a great and free ! solution. Really appriciated!

I'd like to re-encode some UHD material but while I found quite a bit about Quality Tuning, I'm lost when it comes to just re-encoding it, using less bandwidth, but keeping everything else the same.
In particular the HDR Parameters.

Examples:
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics : SMPTE ST 2084
Matrix coefficients : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries : R: x=0.680000 y=0.320000, G: x=0.265000 y=0.690000, B: x=0.150000 y=0.060000, White point: x=0.312680 y=0.329000
Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0050 cd/m2, max: 1000.0000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level : 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level : 96 cd/m2


Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics : SMPTE ST 2084
Matrix coefficients : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries : R: x=0.680000 y=0.320000, G: x=0.265000 y=0.690000, B: x=0.150000 y=0.060000, White point: x=0.312700 y=0.329000
Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0000 cd/m2, max: 1000.0000 cd/m2


Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics : SMPTE ST 2084
Matrix coefficients : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries : R: x=0.680000 y=0.320000, G: x=0.265000 y=0.690000, B: x=0.150000 y=0.060000, White point: x=0.312680 y=0.329000
Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0050 cd/m2, max: 1000.0000 cd/m2


they all have a bit different Parameters.
How would I re-encode those, while preserving all those values for each file?
I guess there is no "take those Parameters from the source file and re-use them in the target file" Option and I have to provide them manually for every file?

Can you provide an example on how to re-encode an mkv (I use ffmpeg and pipe), maybe with some good tunning tips included?

thanks!!
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Old 14th September 2017, 11:42   #5595  |  Link
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Example for your first file:
ffmpeg -i "input.mkv" -pix_fmt yuv420p10 -strict -1 -f yuv4mpegpipe - | x265 - --y4m --output-depth 10 --colorprim 9 --transfer 16 --colormatrix 9 --range limited --chromaloc 2 --max-cll "1000,96" --master-display "G(13250,34500)B(7500,3000)R(34000,16000)WP(15634,16450)L(10000000,50)" -o "output.265"
(--chromalog 2 is usually used for 4K HDR so I have set it. But MediaInfo doesn't show this about your source.)
remux with audio/subs from source: mkvmerge -o "output.mkv" "output.265" --no-video "input.mkv"

You can find some more examples/discussion here:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=174491
http://x265.readthedocs.io/en/defaul...mation-options

Last edited by sneaker_ger; 14th September 2017 at 12:55. Reason: edited colorprim/transer/matrix to int values because of x265 cli change
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Old 14th September 2017, 12:25   #5596  |  Link
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It's now --transfer smpte2084

edit:

Can anybody provide a sample file which such HDR metadata?
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Last edited by stax76; 14th September 2017 at 12:36.
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Old 14th September 2017, 12:44   #5597  |  Link
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Originally Posted by stax76 View Post
It's now --transfer smpte2084
Ah, I forgot. Thx. Edited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stax76 View Post
Can anybody provide a sample file which such HDR metadata?
Knock yourself out:
http://demo-uhd3d.com/
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Old 14th September 2017, 13:29   #5598  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
Example for your first file:
ffmpeg -i "input.mkv" -pix_fmt yuv420p10 -strict -1 -f yuv4mpegpipe - | x265 - --y4m --output-depth 10 --colorprim 9 --transfer 16 --colormatrix 9 --range limited --chromaloc 2 --max-cll "1000,96" --master-display "G(13250,34500)B(7500,3000)R(34000,16000)WP(15634,16450)L(10000000,50)" -o "output.265"
(--chromalog 2 is usually used for 4K HDR so I have set it. But MediaInfo doesn't show this about your source.)
remux with audio/subs from source: mkvmerge -o "output.mkv" "output.265" --no-video "input.mkv"

You can find some more examples/discussion here:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=174491
http://x265.readthedocs.io/en/defaul...mation-options
that was fast

so basically only --max-cll changes accordingly to the source?
Is there a need/benefit using any of the uhd/hdr Options like "--hdr-opt"?

You have some advice on the remaining regular settings for UHD? (preset, CRF value)?

thanks!
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Old 14th September 2017, 14:06   #5599  |  Link
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so basically only --max-cll changes accordingly to the source?
Other parameters might change as well but it seems most of the sources floating around use the same parameters, mostly. It's your job to check.

Also, some sources have parameters that don't make much sense. Like your second file which has "Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0000 cd/m2, max: 1000.0000 cd/m2".
Minimum luminance of 0? I don't think such a display is on the market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _kermit View Post
Is there a need/benefit using any of the uhd/hdr Options like "--hdr-opt"?

You have some advice on the remaining regular settings for UHD? (preset, CRF value)?
[/QUOTE]
--hdr-opt is supposed to increase compression for HDR but I haven't actually tested it nor see other comparisons. I suggest you read the thread I linked and look around a bit around the forum. It's subjective.
Preset: as slow as you are willing to wait
CRF: as low as you are willing to sacrifice HDD space
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Old 14th September 2017, 14:59   #5600  |  Link
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@sneaker_ger

You can't really trust the documentation, it's not always in sync with the code, I would always use strings instead of integers for flags.
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