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Old 14th March 2017, 01:43   #43061  |  Link
Asmodian
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So in the area of Upscaling Refinement is has absolutely no effect on 1080p content?
Since you are watching at 4K they would because you are also upscaling 1080p. Based on Warner306's comment you should use Upscaling Refinement for everything but 4K content.

I much prefer sharpening with Upscaling Refinement as opposed to Image Enhancement but the effect is not as strong with the same settings.
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Old 14th March 2017, 01:44   #43062  |  Link
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So in the area of Upscaling Refinement is has absolutely no effect on 1080p content?
Yes, that's correct. But only if you are outputting at 1080p. 1080p -> 2160p involves upscaling, so you'll want to use upscaling refinement.

Last edited by Warner306; 14th March 2017 at 01:52.
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Old 14th March 2017, 01:46   #43063  |  Link
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Im upscaling BDs to 4K with madvr
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Old 14th March 2017, 02:12   #43064  |  Link
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Yes, that's correct. But only if you are outputting at 1080p. 1080p -> 2160p involves upscaling, so you'll want to use upscaling refinement.
Ok I understand, I am upscaling 1080p >2160p so Upscaling refinement is actually working for me.

What I want to know then is, should I use Image enhancements or Upscaling refinement if I want to add a bit of extra sharpness?
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Old 14th March 2017, 03:04   #43065  |  Link
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disable GPU gamma ramps

Hi. Can someone explain to me how "disable GPU gamma ramps" option works? I have 2 separate calibrations. One for madvr (3d lut file) and one for windows (matrix icc v4 file). If I enable the "disable GPU gamma ramps" option, does madvr ignore the windows calibration?
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Old 14th March 2017, 03:10   #43066  |  Link
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Is there any way to use NGU Sharp (med) for chroma doubling with NGU Sharp (high) for luma doubling ?
When I select "very high" for chroma doubling, it doesn't let me when "high" is selected for luma doubling.

I try to do this :

artifact removal : reduce banding artifacts medium & high
chroma upscaling : NGU Anti-Alias (high)
image downscaling : Bicubic150 + AR [relaxed]
luma doubling : NGU Sharp (high) 2x supersampling
chroma doubling : NGU Sharp (med) 2x supersampling
image upscaling : Jinc + AR
upscaling refinement : add grain 3
dithering : Ordered + colored noise + change dither

I don't think that NGU Sharp (med) for chroma doubling is a bad choice considering the rest of the configuration.
The limit for chroma doubling should be equal or at maximum one step below the luma doubling IMO, not two...

@madshi ? any chance to change this ?

Last edited by Neo-XP; 14th March 2017 at 20:11.
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Old 14th March 2017, 03:17   #43067  |  Link
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What I want to know then is, should I use Image enhancements or Upscaling refinement if I want to add a bit of extra sharpness?
I honestly don't understand why you're even asking this. Just tick boxes and watch.
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Old 14th March 2017, 03:22   #43068  |  Link
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I remember some people saying image enhancements are better done before any upscaling. I don't know if thats really true.
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Old 14th March 2017, 03:31   #43069  |  Link
70MM
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I honestly don't understand why you're even asking this. Just tick boxes and watch.
Hey I have done that many times with hours and hours of experimentation. I am new with madvr and have less experience than you and others knowing and understanding all the settings here. If I dont ask the experts how can I learn or one day try to help new comers like me.???

Im sorry you are so upset with me asking a question!

Last edited by 70MM; 14th March 2017 at 03:40.
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Old 14th March 2017, 03:32   #43070  |  Link
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I remember some people saying image enhancements are better done before any upscaling. I don't know if thats really true.
Thank you valdeski, hopefully some others who have the knowledge and dont mind sharing the knowledge will answer this for us.
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Old 14th March 2017, 03:45   #43071  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by 70MM View Post
Ok I understand, I am upscaling 1080p >2160p so Upscaling refinement is actually working for me.

What I want to know then is, should I use Image enhancements or Upscaling refinement if I want to add a bit of extra sharpness?
I'd use NGU Sharp, as it doesn't require added sharpening. If I wanted to add sharpening, I'd use SuperRes under upscaling refinement. But it isn't necessary with NGU Sharp.
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Old 14th March 2017, 04:12   #43072  |  Link
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if the PC freezes you should find out what freezes event viewer is a good start for example.
Assuming that the Seasonic 650W Gold PSU is enough powerfull (the PC doesn't shut down), and due to the fact that the freezing happens when "very High" is selected instead of "High", I can reasonably say that is a GPU related issue: or temperature or consumption. The fan speed/noise points to overheating.

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your GPU is not supposed to over heat and it is pretty hard to over heat a RX 4X0 card.
So it drives back to what I read about the RX 480 problem of to much current consumption over PCI for some old Mobo.

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if it is the GPU/GPU driver try to contact AMD per phone that usally works some how.
AMD said that they solved the problem starting from the 17.1 Crimson Driver.

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and i never said madVR is freezing?
I was only confirming what you said in the below quotation, not accusing you...

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it is very unlikely that it is madVR that is freezing.
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Old 14th March 2017, 04:50   #43073  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jkauff View Post
Try running SVP in CPU mode and see if it makes a difference.
SVP it's already without GPU acceleration, thanks for suggesting it.

I think that SVP + madVR NGU HIGH is the max that I can use for low res (480/576) -> 1080, but picture quality is amazing and some artifacts depends only from the frame rate conversion. so I really thank Madshi for his works!!!
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Old 14th March 2017, 05:27   #43074  |  Link
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Using latest versions of madVR 89.19 and Emby for WMC (Windows 7 Professional). With MPC-HC 1.7.10 after refresh rate switching by madVR (windowed overlay mode) then video hangs and does not play. Video will play after closing then re-starting MPC.

Refresh rate switching when using MPC-HC 1.7.9 works with video playing fine after refresh rate switching.

Has anyone else seen this, better still have a solution for it? I have also posted this in the MPC-HC forum as I suspect it is more of an issue with the latest version of MPC-HC than madVR.
Hi. I reported this issue with the release of MPC-HC 1.7.10 about a year ago, and it has recurred with the recent release of MPC-HC 1.7.11 (using the latest release of madVR 0.91.7).

The issue is not apparent when using the Enhanced Video Renderer (custom presenter), and MPC-HC's internal Fullscreen options to switch video refresh rates.

It thus looks like the issue is limited to when madVR is used as the renderer in MPC-HC.

Does anyone have a solution for this?
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Old 14th March 2017, 07:55   #43075  |  Link
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super-xbr is not very good unfortunately compared to NGU AA and Nnedi.
My own testing shows different results, while I am a fan of NNEDI3 for chroma it's performance impact for it isn't what I'm prepared to pay. Also I've seen super-xbr come off sharper in situations than NNEDI3 which I prefer the look of as well, so I've drawn my own conclusions with this after many hours and hundreds of screenshots of inspection, I know exactly what I'm getting.

Last edited by ryrynz; 14th March 2017 at 13:22.
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Old 14th March 2017, 10:12   #43076  |  Link
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Hey guys, so I'm a little confused about how switching on some of the functions behave, in particular upscaling for 4K, anti-ringing for SSIM, and 200% super sampling for NNEDI3.

To begin with, I should mention that my source is a 4K video being played back on a 1080p display. If it matters, it comes from a UHD source which contains HDR merged/converted using pixel shader math.


So for the first issue, I'm confused why changing any of the upscaling options as any effect AT ALL when the only possible configuration I could obviously have of the video is downscaling.

For the second issue, how in the world would the anti-ringing filter when applied to anything (in this case only to the SSIM algorithm) result in the image being sharper? In this case, it's a significant difference too.

Lastly, never mind that it shouldn't do anything anyway given the mentioned setup, why does super sampling completely screw up and otherwise also have the opposite effect of blurring the image if using the NNEDI3 algorithm?



Thanks in advance to anyone who may have a clue XD

PS- I've had this question in mind for a while and was wondering if there was any real answer to it. With pretty much any scaling or other related options (excluding any image enhancements or sharpness refinement of course), do any of them actually add sharpness (as in contrast that's added between line edges) to the picture or in each case does it simply bring out more/less of the original image in its original resolution closer to if it were like a vector object? If it's the latter, would it be accurate to say that the sharper the image becomes, the better/more accurate it is, where it then just becomes a matter of lowering the sharpness on your display? I get that there can be parallel differences depending on the algorithm where increases in sharpness may be in different areas, but that aside... Obviously if I max everything out, the image appears to be overly sharp but, again, if the previous statement is accurate, this I guess would simply be because the picture was overcompensated for prior to the optimized/more accurate rendering provided by MadVR.
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Old 14th March 2017, 13:20   #43077  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
My own testing shows different results, while I am a fan of NNEDI3 for chroma it's performance impact for it isn't what I'm prepared to pay. Also I've seen super-xbr come off sharper in situations than NNEDI3 which I prefer the look of as well, so I've drawn my own conclusions with this after many hours and hundreds of screenshots of inspection, I know exactly what I'm getting.
Did you test this with anime content ? NNEDI3 looks more natural for me when testing on films.

Last edited by Neo-XP; 14th March 2017 at 18:25.
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Old 14th March 2017, 13:30   #43078  |  Link
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So for the first issue, I'm confused why changing any of the upscaling options as any effect AT ALL when the only possible configuration I could obviously have of the video is downscaling.
Chroma upscaling will always apply (typically the chroma channel is supplied at a lower resolution than luma). madVR scales that first to match the luma.
Image upscaling will only apply in this case if you've asked it to always supersample (I assume) and that's because you've told it to do so (hence the option called "always - supersampling").

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For the second issue, how in the world would the anti-ringing filter when applied to anything (in this case only to the SSIM algorithm) result in the image being sharper? In this case, it's a significant difference too.
I don't see that happen in my case.

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Lastly, never mind that it shouldn't do anything anyway given the mentioned setup, why does super sampling completely screw up and otherwise also have the opposite effect of blurring the image if using the NNEDI3 algorithm?[/B]
If you are supersampling 2k vertical to 4k, then down to 1k... I would seriously question the need to further upscale it before downscaling.
I believe what you are seeing is the interaction of how NNEDI "fills in the gaps" so to speak, then the downscaling algo interacting with NNEDI after that. The additional gap fill in seems to give it a better "anti-aliased" look, which you may percieve as a decrease in sharpness. But there is no detail loss. And I wouldn't call it blurring the image. I expect in your test you are looking at scene with high contrast edges only, or a test pattern?

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Originally Posted by Ditto666 View Post
With pretty much any scaling or other related options (excluding any image enhancements or sharpness refinement of course), do any of them actually add sharpness (as in contrast that's added between line edges) to the picture or in each case does it simply bring out more/less of the original image in its original resolution closer to if it were like a vector object?
The whole point of the different algos for upscaling, is to try to interpolate, if this was the original image size, what was there in those missing pixels? i.e. your vector analogy.
The algos result in different levels of perceived sharpness.
There's no way to tell what it really should be (i.e. accuracy), unless you are doing a comparison with a "groundtruth", that is downscaled, then upscaled. Then it introduces a dependency on the downscaling algo anyway, so its great for your controlled test but on other sources, who knows??
Downscaling might be a different affair but I don't know too much about this stuff.
Sharpness is not accuracy itself.

I think a reason why madVR users appreciate the choices is that everyone can choose an option that suits their taste in sharpess, detail retention (or interpolation) and real-time performance, whilst considering the input quality of their sources.

Last edited by webs0r; 14th March 2017 at 13:33.
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Old 14th March 2017, 14:09   #43079  |  Link
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webs0r,

For upscaling, I wasn't talking about the chroma channel.

For the anti-ringing filter, were you trying it out with a 4k video?

Regarding NNEDI, no, it has the opposite effect on it vs. any other algorithm, and it actually does appear as a loss in detail/accuracy. Also, I mentioned that I was playing/testing this with a native 4K video, and it wasn't a test pattern; it was a demo nature video used by Samsung to showcase their Quantum Dot displays. I was watching it on a 1080p display though.

With respect to what upscaling is intended for, well, that's what I already knew and I guess the further logic of what you said makes sense. I guess I was wondering what someone really knowledgeable would make of what I further said. My main intention in the end would really just be to retain as much detail as possible without LOSING any sharpness. I would imagine there's a somewhat objective way of finding which options together give you that best.

Last edited by Ditto666; 14th March 2017 at 23:13.
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Old 14th March 2017, 16:04   #43080  |  Link
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are my setting okay?:

https://i.imgur.com/atx8WRX.png
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