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Old 15th March 2004, 10:00   #61  |  Link
influenza
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Why not?
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Old 15th March 2004, 14:58   #62  |  Link
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Originally posted by influenza
Why not?
I did it so!

And it worked!
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Old 15th March 2004, 16:22   #63  |  Link
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you CAN NOT have a dummy audio in vobid demux UNLESS you dont link your vobids seamlessly in the scenario editor. if there werent a way to reassign the audios in ifoedit id sorta understand that. but to have non-seamless links just to be lazy isnt worth it (non-seamless linking causes stutter in playback at the points where the vobids change on 99% settops).

also, obviously if you have only 1 vobid in the pgc or if the 2nd vobid is just a dummy chapter stop vobid where seamless linking isnt needed, you can also use a dummy audio.
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Old 15th March 2004, 16:24   #64  |  Link
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Whew... Thanks

was starting to second guess myself
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Old 15th March 2004, 16:32   #65  |  Link
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Hmm, Never thought of it that way. I normally don't use dummies anyway. But it is possible to use em, you just cannot link the vobids seamlessly (it's not that it is impossible )

Anyway if you don't dummy them do not forget to edit the ifo to put in the correct audio stream numbers
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Old 15th March 2004, 16:55   #66  |  Link
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if tracks are linked seamlessy in a pgc they must have audio that have durations the full length of the tracks (except for the last track but one vobid does no good)..
thats me about 30 replies up
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Old 16th March 2004, 17:15   #67  |  Link
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A word of warning, I have never used DIF4U nor Reauthorist nor SceneAid, but I can't resist to comment on this (infamous?) "Demux by VobId" issue.

First of all it is of course clear that we have to demux by VobId if there are angles, seamless branching or other "playback discontinuities" in the PGC. But once this is done, should we really put the disc back together from this uh, utterly broken apart state? I say there are better ways .

I mean, even though the disc has angles and what not, it was originally definitely not put together from "VobIds" but from large contiguous streams that then had angles and seamless branching added in places. This is possible in Scenarist (except for seamless branching), so should we not try to reauthor using assets that as closely as possible match the originals?

For instance multiple angles. AFAIK the current utilities struggle with trying to connect the VobId tracks seamlessly in the Scenario which may or may not work due to the necessary audio delay corrections which may cause the audio stream to get too short for the cells to be connected seamlessly (please correct me if I'm wrong!). It would IMHO be much better (but of course also more work) to get Angle 1 as one large stream and then simply drop the Angle x video assets into the appropriate scenes in that large track (see this thread for a more detailed explanation). Similar for seamless branching, it is always possible to keep at least one version of the movie seemless (see http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70485 ).

In general, the demuxing utility should always try to create the least amount of assets that as closely as possible resemble the streams that were used to author the original disc. In fact, it shouldn't even bother the user with the decision whether or not to demux by VobId but should take that road by itself if necessary.

I used to work along these lines manually for a long time, but eventually got tired of the tedious manual demuxing and wrote my own little demuxing utility that I'd be willing to share if anyone is interested. Just so that you know I'm not just blowing hot air . It is not very nice to look at because it's of course a batch file, but it requires very little manual intervention and should be easy to use. Understanding the directory structure it creates is another story but I'm happy to explain. Note it does nothing in terms of Scenarist script creation, just what I call "optimized demuxing" because I prefer to author manually. It will also demux the complete DVD (except menus), you'll have to decide what to leave out during authoring.

Just my two cents OTOH, with jdobbs' ReBuilder all of this may soon be just unneccesary and we can ditch that Scenarist bitch
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Old 17th March 2004, 08:13   #68  |  Link
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RB: OK I'm rather irked but I'm going to try to contain myself.

First off, what you did was rude. It was the equivalent of saying "your app sucks, it's worthless, my way rules, all your effort and countless hours investing in research and development are stupid". If anyone besides a respected member had posted that, I would have stricken them right away for netiquette. Did you happen to realize the subject of the thread? It's a thread about a new exciting app by D3s7, an announcement of a new version, and was intended to be full of discussion about bugs/issues found/resolved. I would have thought that was obvious.

That being said, why don't you actually TRY out our apps instead of avoiding them with every breath in your body? Maybe instead of scoffing, you could see a way that we could use our apps to create a better output. I for one can see an idea of concatenating the output m2vs from CCE into one large m2v, without the need for an extra .ecl.

D3s7: I for one appreciate all the time you've put and are still putting into making a better 'big3' solution, and I know many others who also thought the above post was very rude and have 'got your back', so don't get discouraged!
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See: http://www.doitfast4u.com.


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Last edited by Eyes`Only; 17th March 2004 at 08:19.
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Old 17th March 2004, 08:31   #69  |  Link
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@RB

While I do like the possibilities of the method and it definately would address some issues with vobid demux.. i too think the timing and placement of the reply could have been better (ie maybe a new thread?) In its own thread it could have just proposed the method w/out the unneeded comparison to the current applications. Any new ideas of better ways to do things are always welcome.. thats what big 3 has been.. a constantly improving method. But there isnt a good reason to introduce a new idea (or method) as a slap in the face of an old one.

Anywho.. my next vobid project i'll definately explore this method further. I respect your effort in this method and also the projects you have coded already and the hard work you put into them. Just please be respectful of the hard work others put into their methods/applications.
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Old 17th March 2004, 16:07   #70  |  Link
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I want to apologize for any embarrassment I have caused. It was not my intention to upset you, D3s7 or anybody else who has invested countless hours in developing utilities that have made high quality DVD backups possible at all for so many people. Now reading my post again, I however do realize that it is a) misplaced and b) does not show the level of respect for the existing utilities that I have, of course!

I didn't want to offend anybody, just wanted to share my way of doing things, hoping others including Eyes`Only could benefit from it and be it only some fresh ideas maybe.

I'll resolve this with Eyes personally.
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Old 18th March 2004, 03:48   #71  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by RB
I'll resolve this with Eyes personally.
Yeah, this really for your Eyes'Only.

Sorry, could not resist.
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Old 19th March 2004, 12:13   #72  |  Link
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Reporting a bug...

I think there are some issues w/ forced subs. It seems that streams w/ forced subs are excluded from the scenarist script. Its not difficult to import them manually, but someone must first delete overlapping subs, since there are two .sst files for each stream (forced subs are "mentioned" in both files).
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Old 19th March 2004, 14:09   #73  |  Link
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thanks n1ck0s.

I found a problem the other day that may be linked with this and should be resolved now

hopefully if I can fix these last few bugs I've managed to create we'll get another build out
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Old 19th March 2004, 14:17   #74  |  Link
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hopefully if I can fix these last few bugs I've managed to create
almost sounds as if you're proud of that
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Old 20th March 2004, 19:53   #75  |  Link
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Abyss problem

Hello D3s7, I tried your software, and I want to ask, is it normal to have in newly authored PGC on half of the Cells Layer Breaks? Sorry if this is stupid question. I simply want to know if I am doing something wrong, or if this is normal on reauthored material.
It is Abyss R2 PAL SE backup.

1) I did DIF4U by VOBID, menu by NuMenu4U
2) I did d2v manually using DVD2AVIdg
3) Change avs script with help of BR (Abyss region PAL video is not good somehow, there are shifted fields)
4) Create project on ScenAid, import to Scenarist.
5) Problem with subtitles, I had to get all of them away and put back manually
6) Output OK, back together OK, but when playing (both on PC and Standalone) I have slight pauses (about 1/4 - 1/2 sec) in audio and video. I checked ifo, and there are Layer Breaks almost everywhere.

Is it normal, or is there a help on this? The pauses are really annoying.

Last edited by matus2003; 20th March 2004 at 19:58.
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Old 20th March 2004, 19:57   #76  |  Link
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abyss is kinda ambitious since it's a true seamlessly branched title and scenarist can't handle those. So yes I would expect a lot of layer breaks. Maybe an other title is better for testing.
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Old 20th March 2004, 20:13   #77  |  Link
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Thanks for answer. "true seamlessly branched title" - where can I find more info about this? What is the purpose of Layer Breaks on newly authored material - helps to navigate changes between Cells?
Would it be the same with titles like Alien Quadrilogy?
In the end, my concern is not as much the backup itself, I just want to know how to do it properly an learn something new
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Old 20th March 2004, 20:15   #78  |  Link
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yes alien quadrology is also seamless branching afaik.

It means that some pieces of video is woven into the main movie (like angles). Because scenarist can't do this you'll get the layer breaks.
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Old 20th March 2004, 20:15   #79  |  Link
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@matus.. yeah.. abyss was yucky.. seamed like there was only maybe 15 mins of the thing that wasnt seamless multistory. ilvu's all over the place. as flu said.. were stuck w/the layer breaks until scenarist supports multistory. i started playing with making something to maybe restore the multistory and remove the layer breaks but its harder than i thought.. gotta do more research on all the vob flags/settings.
dont hold your breath at this point tho

in the meanwhile, something that is easy to implement within the current frame work of vobid demuxing is having scenaid lay the longest pgc (extended version) in a seamless fasion, setting all the flags as seamless, then laying the other theatrical version(s) this is similar to something rb suggested but easier to implement in the current vobid demux context. this would allow the extended version to play with no pauses, but you would just have them on the theatrical version.

for the time being.. thankfully, these titles represent the very smallest minority of titles but hopefully we can get them conquered as well
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Old 20th March 2004, 20:45   #80  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Trahald
in the meanwhile, something that is easy to implement within the current frame work of vobid demuxing is having scenaid lay the longest pgc (extended version) in a seamless fasion, setting all the flags as seamless, then laying the other theatrical version(s) this is similar to something rb suggested but easier to implement in the current vobid demux context. this would allow the extended version to play with no pauses, but you would just have them on the theatrical version.
Is it possible to do this on authored project manually (in IfoEdit for example), or is there any easy way to do this in Scenarist on already generated project by ScenAid? (I hope I still have them)
I never give up, but just for fun: now I know it was stupid, but I edited ifo in IfoEdit, removed layer breaks and burn on RW just to test. Result was total block of my standalone (Panasonic DVD-RA82), at service they had to reset of player via service settings. DVD-RW was stuck inside, "Tray is locked" on the screen. So just a warning for others.
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