Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 5th May 2018, 17:06   #50681  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by FDisk80 View Post
Nope, still busted with 397.55.
madVR gives this error when trying to apply custom timings.
I'm assuming you did, but did you make sure you selected a different refresh rate than the one you are trying to customize (e.g. anything besides 23hz?).
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2018, 17:13   #50682  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 227
I added Windows Media Center SE as a device to my HTPC activity. I changed Ctrl + J to Ctrl + Z in madVR. I added a soft button to my Harmony 900 mapping the Windows Media Center SE/Ctrl + Z command and pressing it toggles stats off and on.
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1903 9604GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI MPC-HC/BE PDVD19 DVDFab 3 & 5
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2018, 17:37   #50683  |  Link
tyrindor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 47
I reported this when Windows 10 1803 was still an insider build but it seems it's still an issue.

I have upgraded two computers to Windows 10 1803 and both of them now have an issue where the video freezes for about 2-5 seconds whenever entering exclusive fullscreen mode. Downgrading back to the previous version of Windows 10 fixes it on both computers.

Titan XP, latest NVIDIA drivers/MadVR/MPC-BE. Default settings everywhere for testing.

Last edited by tyrindor; 5th May 2018 at 17:44.
tyrindor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2018, 17:43   #50684  |  Link
Clown shoes
King of the Jungle
 
Clown shoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Shoreditch, London
Posts: 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
If you can map keyboard commands to your Harmony remote, it should be easy. You can change the shortcut in madVR to anything you want. You may even be able to push a button on your remote if madVR recognizes it, but I think it has to be a keyboard combination of some sort.

I use MCE Keyboard as the profile and Windows Media Center SE. Bluetooth keyboard would also work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
I added Windows Media Center SE as a device to my HTPC activity. I changed Ctrl + J to Ctrl + Z in madVR. I added a soft button to my Harmony 900 mapping the Windows Media Center SE/Ctrl + Z command and pressing it toggles stats off and on.
Cheers fellas,

Strangely I just can't get it working!

I have the Harmony 950 and I have Media Center SE added as a device. I've tried Ctrl + J and like brazen1 I have tried changing that to Ctrl + Z, adding either to one of the hard buttons on my remote.

I can't think what might be preventing it from working.
Clown shoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2018, 17:47   #50685  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 227
What happens if you press that key combo on your keyboard? The Harmony should mimic it exactly. Try adding as a soft button.
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1903 9604GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI MPC-HC/BE PDVD19 DVDFab 3 & 5
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2018, 17:52   #50686  |  Link
Clown shoes
King of the Jungle
 
Clown shoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Shoreditch, London
Posts: 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
What happens if you press that key combo on your keyboard? The Harmony should mimic it exactly. Try adding as a soft button.
Well that's the weird bit; the keyboard combo works as expected.

I've tried as software buttons as well but same result. It's all very odd!
Clown shoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2018, 17:59   #50687  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 227
You may have added Media Center SE as a device incorrect or something? If you call up the device 'Media Center SE', do any of the softkey functions for it work? Alt + F4 for example on a desktop window or mouse curser movement. Just seeing if it has any function. Beyond this, I've no idea?
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1903 9604GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI MPC-HC/BE PDVD19 DVDFab 3 & 5
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2018, 18:10   #50688  |  Link
tzr916
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Stockton, CA
Posts: 19
Is there any problem in running different installs of madVR on one machine?

I noticed that Zoom Player downloads/installs it's own madVR, then Jriver MC does the same (Jriver actually discourages trying to use the latest available in MC). Each install does have their own directory and settings.bin. So are there registry settings or other conflicts?

What about LAV? Similar situation....
__________________
H270M, i5-7500 3.4GHz, 16GB PC4-19200, GTX1060 6GB, Win10 Pro 64, JriverMC, 3x3 HDHR Prime, Denon AVRX2200, Sony XBR-Z9D
tzr916 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2018, 18:15   #50689  |  Link
zaemon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 27
madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tzr916 View Post
Is there any problem in running different installs of madVR on one machine?

I noticed that Zoom Player downloads/installs it's own madVR, then Jriver MC does the same (Jriver actually discourages trying to use the latest available in MC). Each install does have their own directory and settings.bin. So are there registry settings or other conflicts?

What about LAV? Similar situation....


I think you cannot have two instances of madVR.
zaemon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2018, 18:33   #50690  |  Link
tzr916
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Stockton, CA
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaemon View Post
I think you cannot have two instances of madVR.
But I do.

Zoom Player installs (the latest) madVR in Program Files(x86).
Jriver installs (an approved version of) madVR in User/AppData/Roaming/Jriver/Plugins.

They both run fine, AFAIK.
__________________
H270M, i5-7500 3.4GHz, 16GB PC4-19200, GTX1060 6GB, Win10 Pro 64, JriverMC, 3x3 HDHR Prime, Denon AVRX2200, Sony XBR-Z9D
tzr916 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2018, 18:40   #50691  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 227
I'm pretty sure you can run two different instances of LAV also. Why not try your two different versions of madVR with your two different players and see what each shows as a version in the Windows notification area on your taskbar. Press Ctrl + S during playback from each player and see what version of madVR it displays.
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1903 9604GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI MPC-HC/BE PDVD19 DVDFab 3 & 5
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D

Last edited by brazen1; 5th May 2018 at 18:45.
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2018, 18:44   #50692  |  Link
tzr916
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Stockton, CA
Posts: 19
Yes, they both show different versions, when playing from each player. And they both have their own settings.bin.
__________________
H270M, i5-7500 3.4GHz, 16GB PC4-19200, GTX1060 6GB, Win10 Pro 64, JriverMC, 3x3 HDHR Prime, Denon AVRX2200, Sony XBR-Z9D
tzr916 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2018, 19:02   #50693  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 227
Hmmmm? I usually dial back my madVR settings to accommodate all videos that fall within certain profiles. I don't want to tailor madVR or anything else based on the variances in titles other than what profiles already offer. For instance, one 1080p title can use some very high settings. Another 1080p needs the settings dialed back. There is nothing a profile would distinguish differently between the two titles. One is just more resource intensive than the other. Perhaps I could use one version of madVR with settings appropriate for one title using MPC-BE, and another version of madVR for the other more intensive titles using MPC-HC for example? I can call up as many different players in my front end (KODI) as I desire to add. Presently I'm using 5 different players default assigned where each shines best.

MPC players only allow to select which renderer, not versions of the same renderer. This could pose a problem. madVR versions would need to be added in front end software unless someone knows how to associate madVR versions with players. This could be a wild goose chase. Only want to use one front end.

One example that would work appears to use ZoomPlayer with one madVR version and MPC with another. I may give this a try....
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1903 9604GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI MPC-HC/BE PDVD19 DVDFab 3 & 5
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D

Last edited by brazen1; 5th May 2018 at 19:11.
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2018, 20:02   #50694  |  Link
stefanelli73
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 34
After installing a NVIDIA GTX 1080 and tired of the constant bugs of the various drivers, I reassembled my "old" AMD RX480 and the first thing I noticed that even with version 92.14 I had 10bit and not 8bit, so the "problem" it exists only for NVIDIA.
stefanelli73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2018, 20:16   #50695  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 227
Yes, we know. Nvidia does not offer RGB 10bit. Never has. Only 8 and 12. Just use 8bit until maybe one day they decide to get around to it unless your display handles 12bit perfectly..... yawn.
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1903 9604GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI MPC-HC/BE PDVD19 DVDFab 3 & 5
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2018, 22:11   #50696  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
There was banding only in passthrough, only in fullscreen windowed mode, only in Windows 10, and it was very minor. So not that surprising.

People are noticing the number 8 because in most cases, there was NO banding in 10bits, but they now have (momentarily until it's restored) lost that feature, so it's very understandable they notice the unnecessary limitation and didn't notice anything before, when everything was working fine with no banding at all (or very minor one if win10 FSW passthrough).
I think you missed huhn's point.

People are not noticing a change in image quality, they only notice the change in the number in the OSD. If madVR lied and said it was outputting 10 bit when it was really dithered 8 bit no one who is noticing this change now would have noticed.

You have to do very specific tests with dithering disabled to even be able to tell if it is 8 or 10 bit. I really do not understand why so many people are so obsessed with 10 or 12 bit output. We have people using 4:2:2 chroma subsampling because they want 12 bit.

I see why madshi didn't worry about 10 bit for so long, bit depth is massively overrated by the casual HTPC user.

Then you have displays like mine, which offer better image quality using 8 bits, and people still want to send them 10 bit. Even I have to recheck this fact every once in a while.

10 bit just seems like it should be much better, but it really isn't.
__________________
madVR options explained

Last edited by Asmodian; 5th May 2018 at 22:19.
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2018, 22:24   #50697  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,901
it get's really interesting if you check part used in TVs and see that nearly every high end TV is 8 bit.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2018, 22:42   #50698  |  Link
Clown shoes
King of the Jungle
 
Clown shoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Shoreditch, London
Posts: 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I think you missed huhn's point.

People are not noticing a change in image quality, they only notice the change in the number in the OSD. If madVR lied and said it was outputting 10 bit when it was really dithered 8 bit no one who is noticing this change now would have noticed.

You have to do very specific tests with dithering disabled to even be able to tell if it is 8 or 10 bit. I really do not understand why so many people are so obsessed with 10 or 12 bit output. We have people using 4:2:2 chroma subsampling because they want 12 bit.

I see why madshi didn't worry about 10 bit for so long, bit depth is massively overrated by the casual HTPC user.

Then you have displays like mine, which offer better image quality using 8 bits, and people still want to send them 10 bit. Even I have to recheck this fact every once in a while.

10 bit just seems like it should be much better, but it really isn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
it get's really interesting if you check part used in TVs and see that nearly every high end TV is 8 bit.
This is a very good point and shows that sometimes people become so obsessed with the numbers that they forget to just sit back and enjoy watching their content

It does make me wonder though about a lot of the current high end sets that say they are 10 bit, but are actually 8bit + FRC, which as I understand it is dithering at the TV end. In this scenario are we best off sending 8bit from MadVR or 10 bit and above?
Clown shoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2018, 22:47   #50699  |  Link
ntropy
Registered User
 
ntropy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
If your brightness is at 30% then don't using the "500 nits" marketing as a data point, it is probably closer to 120-180 nits. It is 500 nits at 100% brightness (and nits is not linear with brightness).

I thought that "let madVR decide" would be the same as converting to SDR with your display, it converts to SDR with pixel shader math on SDR displays and does passthrough on HDR displays. That said maybe it does do something different, ignoring or overwriting bad metadata comes to mind from past discussion. We do know the paths are different, based on a recent bug that had an effect when set to convert to SDR with pixel shaders but not when using let madVR decide.
So I should turn the iMac display's brightness up to 100%? I tried it. It looked bright.
ntropy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2018, 23:10   #50700  |  Link
Manni
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I think you missed huhn's point.

People are not noticing a change in image quality, they only notice the change in the number in the OSD. If madVR lied and said it was outputting 10 bit when it was really dithered 8 bit no one who is noticing this change now would have noticed.

You have to do very specific tests with dithering disabled to even be able to tell if it is 8 or 10 bit. I really do not understand why so many people are so obsessed with 10 or 12 bit output. We have people using 4:2:2 chroma subsampling because they want 12 bit.

I see why madshi didn't worry about 10 bit for so long, bit depth is massively overrated by the casual HTPC user.

Then you have displays like mine, which offer better image quality using 8 bits, and people still want to send them 10 bit. Even I have to recheck this fact every once in a while.

10 bit just seems like it should be much better, but it really isn't.
I didn't miss anything at all. I'm only saying that it was only a very small minority of users that were affected by very minor banding (provided their displays were able to handle 10-12bits of course), but the latest version nukes this for ALL nVidia users, including those that had NO banding whatsoever because they were not using passthrough.

I'm aware that many people should be using 8bits for various reasons, and using 4:2:2 just to get 10bits is clearly a bad idea, but if you can get 10bits 4:4:4, that's a bit less noise than with 8bits 4:4:4, so I don't see why this should go.

Of course, most of you have displays that can't handle more than 8bits, or that could handle 10bits but not the 12bits that nVidia sends, so you keep harping about "no difference" between 8bits and 10bits, but that's simply not true if you have a 10bits or 12bits capable panel.

And by the way, I don't know any "casual" HTPC user that uses MadVR. I'm certainly not a "casual" HTPC user, and neither are you or most of those posting in this thread.

There is nothing better about 10bits regarding banding, MadVR's dithering is excellent, but there is simply a bit less noise than with 8bits.
__________________
Win10 Pro x64 b1903 MCE
i7 3770K@4.0Ghz 16Gb@2.18Ghz EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC2 11Gb@2GHz 436.48 RGB Full 8bits
MPC-BE/LAV/MadVR/jRiver/MyMovies V5.25
Denon X8500H>HD Fury Maestro>JVC RS2000

Last edited by Manni; 5th May 2018 at 23:15.
Manni is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 22:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.