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8th January 2004, 16:36 | #1 | Link |
On2 dungeon crawler
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VP6 version 6.1.0.2 released!
Hello gentlemen and ladies
We have just released an updated version of the VP6 encoder. VP6 6.1.0.2. http://www.on2.com/ the new version fixes some of those pesky bugs that you have all been having. Specifically: -badframes.stt has been addressed and eliminted. -The interlace problem with half fields being displayed has been fixed. -some slight speed improvements on the low end. **note that the two-pass improvements that are stated on the website are mainly from the 6.0.9.2. version of the codec.Those improvements are obviously included in this new version*** Enjoy and please put all feedback in this thread c0mpy
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8th January 2004, 18:14 | #2 | Link |
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any news on VBR quality on 2-pass?
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8th January 2004, 21:04 | #3 | Link |
I'm Shpongled
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thanks for new version, now i hope that everybody recodes with new version (i got >10megs badframes.stt file , by just watching winamp5 tv)
btw there is illogical recomendation in doc >Low Datarate Compression >Peak Bitrate Set to 80-90%. if i correctly understood actually it will limit b\max bitrate, so why not set proper bitrate and peak to 100%? |
8th January 2004, 23:04 | #4 | Link |
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right now this was mainly to get rid of the bugs mentioned above. It is not really any type of update to a better two-pass mode since 6.0.9.2. We are working on the two-pass mode improvements in the VBR area and so on. As for
- as for the peak bitrate setting that has more to do with streaming than local playback. So it in effect refers to how much of the bitrate is streamed back to limit bandwidth overusage. But duly noted is your find. It is actually an error in printing...the Peak bitrate option is not available in VBR encodes since there is no streaming involved. I will have that updated asap. Thanks c0mpy
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9th January 2004, 12:14 | #5 | Link |
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First of all congrats to C0mPr355 and the vp6 team for giving us an amazing codec.
I made some tests with difficult music video clips (lots of motion and vivid colors-I use them as reference clips to test the codecs), and the results with yesterdays release are top quallity.I use an average bitrate of 550 kbps. The two previous releases were problematic visually when using 2 passes (blocky frames - due to lost keyframes I guess).With the new release the results are clearly better and it seams to me that the codec its starting to show its potential. I believe C0mPr355 you are underestimating this release when saying there are no important fixes for the 2 passes algorithm (mabe on purpose?) as I found the previous release not usuable because of the blockiness. Anyway for me vp6 is slightly better than real 10 (at least for the bitrates and the purpose that I use it) as it gives a more detailed picture and an absolutely pleasing result. Thanks again keep up the good work!!!!! my 2 cents Chris ************************************************ no flames please for any grammatical mistakes :-) english is not my native language. |
11th January 2004, 11:55 | #6 | Link |
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Hi!
I've tried out both VP6 6.0.9.2 and 6.1.0.2 and I'd like to share my views with you. I made some 2-pass encodings (clips from 40 seconds up to 6 minutes long) at 512x288 @ 25 fps (from DVD sources) with datarate between 650 and 800 kbps (~1 CD rips) and I compared it with XviD 1.0-beta2. The output was fine. I think VP6 is very good at matching the colours of the source. Instead in some XviD clips there was a slight shift to red (not only on faces) and the original colour range was lost. Same (and maybe worse) for DivX5. Also, under 700 kbps (that's < 0.2 bpp) VP6 wins even for overall quality. I did my tests with no spatial/temporal resampling and min quantizer set to 4. I'm just wondering how a codec with no B-frames can reach such a performance. IMHO from a purely technical standpoint VP6 is a very interesting codec. Also, I did a test with 120 KB/s rate (983 kbps, 0.266 bpp) and compared VP6 to XviD to dig deep into the classic "XviD retains more detail". This turned out to be true, but only with MPEG quantization, as I expected. XviD w/ H.263 looked quite similar to VP6. So I think a different quantization should be embedded in VP6 for higher bitrates (> 0.2 bpp). VP6 is optimized for low bitrates but it doesn't scale well at higher rates. You add a lot of bits and get almost nothing. Lowering the min quantizer to 2 seems to help, but not that much. Now, about the codec flaws...: 1) I'm going to strongly support the request (already made) of a Registry hack to set the default bitrate (in kilobits please!). I use DVDx 2.2 which has no GUI to enter the value. And with an integer KB value you've only a granularity of 8192 bps, not really the best... 2) sadly, with 2-pass I got oversized files up to 3% for 40-seconds clips, and even 0.5-0.6% on a 6-minutes clip. This is too high compared to XviD/DivX, and not so good for fitting a movie into a CD. 3) 2nd pass best quality is quite slow (got 7 fps on a P4 2.4GHz with VOB decoding/resize overhead, and 9-10 from uncompressed source) 4) where is the "General" profile you talk about in your site? Also, I found a badframes.stt file in VDub directory, generated by version 6.1.0.2 (got a lot of badframes.stt with 6.0.9.2, now only one... guess we're improving ) Overall, I think that VP6 is a very good product. If On2 manages to improve it (oversize/interface especially), it may even be excellent. I look forward to newer releases. |
11th January 2004, 17:11 | #8 | Link |
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:up: Cool, going to check it out tomorrow
And again - I seem to have missed it within the guide, the threads, etc. How do you predict the File Size? If someone can give me a helpfull slab on my heads back and feel that it is out of place here (as me the blind one is asking for the obvious) PM me please |
11th January 2004, 19:10 | #9 | Link | |
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Quote:
Both are very similar (to me) at ~500kbps and I don't know which one I prefer
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13th January 2004, 19:35 | #10 | Link |
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Bug-report.
I think i've found the culprit behind the quality fluctuations. There are periodical "spikes" in the bitrate graph, in other words, some frames are much lesser compressed than the rest without any reason, even when i set constant quantizer. Here is what i'm talking about: The motion is rather constant in these scenes, so these "spikes" shouldn't be there. Anyone else experienced this problem? I think this can be the reason behind the rate-control problems. I've win98SE system and athlon xp 1700+, if that helps. Last edited by Tommy Carrot; 13th January 2004 at 19:39. |
13th January 2004, 19:44 | #11 | Link |
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I've seen taht too, so I thought the small one were b-frames...
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13th January 2004, 21:25 | #14 | Link | |
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Quote:
Last edited by Bulletproof; 13th January 2004 at 21:28. |
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13th January 2004, 22:08 | #15 | Link | |
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Quote:
Last edited by Tommy Carrot; 13th January 2004 at 22:10. |
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14th January 2004, 00:37 | #16 | Link | |
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Quote:
Do you find the effect disturbing when the clip plays? I know single stepping through the frames it becomes evident. |
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14th January 2004, 00:51 | #17 | Link | |
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Quote:
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14th January 2004, 00:54 | #18 | Link |
retired developer
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quality jump is a very big problem. YOu should keep the same quality between 2 key frames, or else it's very anoying to the eye.
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14th January 2004, 08:43 | #19 | Link | |
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Quote:
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14th January 2004, 13:07 | #20 | Link |
Satsuki'S Softs Maker
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Yes please don't use this, or make a configurable version of it ^^.
I'm often work with constant quality or quantitser on all codecs, but when i do that in vp6 the quality jumping make me mad, it's too bad because without that vp6 would probably be my archivage codec (at least for movies ^^).... ++ |
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