madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[kazuya2k8]

Originally Posted by James Freeman

Apparently my i7 3770k (3900 Mhz each core) is no good for UHD with madVR....
GPU Nvidia GTX660 is not used for decoding.

I downloaded THIS nice 4k 10bit HEVC 60fps demo and it stutters even with madVR on Nearest Neighbor on all scalers, and all quality compromise options are on, no dithering, no smooth motion.
The CPU runs maxed out on all cores...
BUT, when I select EVR (Custom) as my video renderer, everything is smooth without dropped frames.

I was expecting madVR to be able to play the top spec of the UHD 4K standard, at least with its lowest settings on a "not so old" PC.
Anyone cares to help me solve this?

I have GTX 660 too but with i5 4430. I still get frame drops even using EVR-CP, the CPU get maxed, too heavy for my CPU to decode 10bit 4K HEVC.

[Thunderbolt8]

Originally Posted by kazuya2k8

I have GTX 660 too but with i5 4430. I still get frame drops even using EVR-CP, the CPU get maxed, too heavy for my CPU to decode 10bit 4K HEVC.

madvr is more GPU heavy than EVR though. perhaps your CPU might still be fine if your GPU were better, cant tell for sure.

[nevcairiel]

HEVC 4K 10-bit is *extremely* CPU intensive still, you would need an absolute high-end CPU to decode it, and even then it may not work entirely fluidly depending on the bitrate.
If you want an old PC to handle such content, your best bet is to buy a GPU with support for decoding it.

Also, to start, make sure you use a 64-bit player, since HEVC decoding is generally much faster on 64-bit.

[Manni]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

HEVC 4K 10-bit is *extremely* CPU intensive still, you would need an absolute high-end CPU to decode it, and even then it may not work entirely fluidly depending on the bitrate.
If you want an old PC to handle such content, your best bet is to buy a GPU with support for decoding it.

Also, to start, make sure you use a 64-bit player, since HEVC decoding is generally much faster on 64-bit.

I can confirm this, I have a 3770K@4GHz and I used to be unable to play UHD10bitsHEVC with MadVR without stutter using x86. Exodus would stutter at shot transitions, and Life of Pi was stutter fest. Now that I've switched to 64bits, I can play both of these these smoothly with my HD7870, although I have to max the queues and lower processing in MadVR re chroma upscaling etc. But it's smooth at least .

[iSeries]

Originally Posted by James Freeman

Apparently my i7 3770k (3900 Mhz each core) is no good for UHD with madVR....
GPU Nvidia GTX660 is not used for decoding.

I downloaded THIS nice 4k 10bit HEVC 60fps demo and it stutters even with madVR on Nearest Neighbor on all scalers, and all quality compromise options are on, no dithering, no smooth motion.
The CPU runs maxed out on all cores...
BUT, when I select EVR (Custom) as my video renderer, everything is smooth without dropped frames.

I was expecting madVR to be able to play the top spec of the UHD 4K standard, at least with its lowest settings on a "not so old" PC.
Anyone cares to help me solve this?

I couldn't play that clip either with my GTX950. Strange because I can play similar clips fine (hardware decoding). Rendering time are fine, but the queues don't fill and it continuously dropped frames.

[Arm3nian]

Originally Posted by James Freeman

Apparently my i7 3770k (3900 Mhz each core) is no good for UHD with madVR....
GPU Nvidia GTX660 is not used for decoding.

I downloaded THIS nice 4k 10bit HEVC 60fps demo and it stutters even with madVR on Nearest Neighbor on all scalers, and all quality compromise options are on, no dithering, no smooth motion.
The CPU runs maxed out on all cores...
BUT, when I select EVR (Custom) as my video renderer, everything is smooth without dropped frames.

I was expecting madVR to be able to play the top spec of the UHD 4K standard, at least with its lowest settings on a "not so old" PC.
Anyone cares to help me solve this?

As said, madVR probably uses a bit more cpu than EVR, and your cpu is already at 100% trying to decode, so there isn't any processor power left. If you were getting stutters but your cpu/gpu was not at 100%, then you would have a problem.

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

HEVC 4K 10-bit is *extremely* CPU intensive still

His test video is also 60fps. Unrealistic video specs imo.

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by James Freeman

Apparently my i7 3770k (3900 Mhz each core) is no good for UHD with madVR....
GPU Nvidia GTX660 is not used for decoding.

I downloaded THIS nice 4k 10bit HEVC 60fps demo and it stutters even with madVR on Nearest Neighbor on all scalers, and all quality compromise options are on, no dithering, no smooth motion.
The CPU runs maxed out on all cores...
BUT, when I select EVR (Custom) as my video renderer, everything is smooth without dropped frames.

I was expecting madVR to be able to play the top spec of the UHD 4K standard, at least with its lowest settings on a "not so old" PC.
Anyone cares to help me solve this?

Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8

madvr is more GPU heavy than EVR though. perhaps your CPU might still be fine if your GPU were better, cant tell for sure.

MadVR uses a little bit more CPU than EVR but if madVR is pushing you over the edge you are very close to being unable to decode it fast enough even when using EVR. Can you get 4.0 GHz out of your 3770K?

Using x86 I cannot play that video smoothly with a i7-5960X at 4.2GHz and a 980Ti at 1506MHz, it isn't the GPU that is the problem it is the CPU. My i7-5960X cannot keep the decode queue full using LAV's 32-bit HEVC decoder. 64-bit is pretty much required for 4K 10-bit HEVC software decoding today.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by Manni

This isn't about handling UHD Bluray on HDR displays though, This is about converting HDR content to SDR displays.

Madshi already stated that he'll only be able to implement HDR support when HDR will be supported at GPU/Driver/API level, which won't happen until Arctic Islands next summer.

The good news is that Cyberlink have confirmed they are working on UHD Bluray support for PowerDVD, which means that we'll get some BDXL players able to read the content. From there, everything is possible...

HDR support is working now. At least it is on my 1080p display. madVR takes the HDR luminance values and rescales them to any display by decoding this information before it reaches the display, so the display doesn't have to do this decoding itself.

The same can be said for the color gamut, which is matrixed to the gamut set in calibration.

What won't work is the playback of copyright-protected UHD content.

[MistahBonzai]

Originally Posted by James Freeman

Apparently my i7 3770k (3900 Mhz each core) is no good for UHD with madVR....

I was expecting madVR to be able to play the top spec of the UHD 4K standard, at least with its lowest settings on a "not so old" PC.
Anyone cares to help me solve this?

I gave it a shot with a i7 4770/HD 7850 w/64-bit madVR/LAV/MPC-HC. Knew HEVC@60fps wouldn't play right but what the hell After tweaking for max performance it was show time

Finally opted for EVR-CP/nearest neighbor when I noticed that the "frame rate" was over 100fps and looking to go higher while feeding a 60fps display... Don't have a 3D rig here but could this be due to the vid being 3D. If so I suspect the only way to play it right would be with full hardware decoding in the GPU..which is kinda scarce at the moment. Looks like upgrade time..again Cum on bak to the red side Jim

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by iSeries

I couldn't play that clip either with my GTX950. Strange because I can play similar clips fine (hardware decoding). Rendering time are fine, but the queues don't fill and it continuously dropped frames.

If the queues aren't filling, your settings are probably still too aggressive.

[AngelGraves13]

Originally Posted by Warner306

HDR support is working now. At least it is on my 1080p display. madVR takes the HDR luminance values and rescales them to any display by decoding this information before it reaches the display, so the display doesn't have to do this decoding itself.

The same can be said for the color gamut, which is matrixed to the gamut set in calibration.

What won't work is the playback of copyright-protected UHD content.

Exactly...that is until MakeMKV adds support for it.

[baii]

Some actually have to downgrade, (or add a second card?) To get real 10 bit hevc hardware decode. When you really have enough contents, it will get supported, so I personally really don't stress over it.
Anyways, if I am right, madvr performance should not care if the source is hevc or what not, all that matters should be size (pixel ) and fps.



Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by baii

Some actually have to downgrade, (or add a second card?) To get real 10 bit hevc hardware decode. When you really have enough contents, it will get supported, so I personally really don't stress over it.
Anyways, if I am right, madvr performance should not care if the source is hevc or what not, all that matters should be size (pixel ) and fps.



Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

Only the GTX 950/960 will do a full hardware decode of 10-bit HEVC.

[James Freeman]

Okay fellows, Thanks!

The test video is 4k 10bit 60fps 50Mbit/s, so it is not yet the heaviest the format allows, the heaviest would be with 128Mbit/s and rec.2020 with Metadata which has to be scaled by madVR.
As far as I understand, a hardware decoder is essential for the next generation of video, because even current generation overclocked desktop CPUs are barely managing.
A new GPU with hardware decoder will bring the CPU usage to 0% as I see with the heaviest 40Mbit/s 1080p 24fps bluray content.

My GTX660 handles video just fine with only 20% load of the VPU (video decoder) on 40Mbit/s 1080p videos.
The GPU load is around 10% because I use Lanczos and Bicubic, nothing special.
I don't feels the need to upgrade my GPU (I don't play games at all), but for HEVC hardware decoding maybe I should.

[AngelGraves13]

Yes, we need a new gen of GPUs for sure.

[gendouhydeist]

Hi guys with the latest madvr .90+. I'm having with issues with the delayed video frame as for the OSD I'm only having 2 drop frame and 0 delayed frame but video was totally out of sync with the audio, as it progress the delay increases.



My Laptop Specs:
Intel 4770hq i7
16GB RAM
NVIDIA GT 745M

[Manni]

Originally Posted by Warner306

HDR support is working now. At least it is on my 1080p display. madVR takes the HDR luminance values and rescales them to any display by decoding this information before it reaches the display, so the display doesn't have to do this decoding itself.

The same can be said for the color gamut, which is matrixed to the gamut set in calibration.

What won't work is the playback of copyright-protected UHD content.

I know this, but this isn't HDR support, as in passing through the metadata for the HDR display to handle it. Madshi himself has commented on this, I'm only reporting what he's alreaded posted. He will consider implementing HDR support (which isn't the current HDR to SDR conversion) when GPU will support HDMI 2.0a at GPU driver and API level. His words, not mine.

I've tested MadVR's HDR to SDR conversion and it works well, but it's not optimized for each HDR display (and of course reap some of the benefits of HDR content on SDR displays, which is great). HDR10 calibration is such a mess that manufacturers are the only ones to know how they handle HDR on each display. Hence the need for proper HDR support, as MadVR has no way to know which display is connected and which settings are optimal for that display.

What's great is that it's giving us options to try to find optimal settings (like the nits settings). It would be nice to have an HDR passthrough option though, just in case it gives us a better (as in more accurate) picture for some HDR displays which can be autocalibrated by the manufacturer in accordance with whichever HDR10 calibration rules they have decided to implement for their display, as there is no standard.

Let's not open an HDR10 calibration discussion here, it's off topic, but Madshi has made it very clear that the current HDR implementation was an HDR to SDR conversion for SDR displays, and that a proper passthrough HDR implementation would only be possible with HMDI 2.0a support at GPU/Driver/API levels.

[XTrojan]

Originally Posted by James Freeman

Okay fellows, Thanks!

The test video is 4k 10bit 60fps 50Mbit/s, so it is not yet the heaviest the format allows, the heaviest would be with 128Mbit/s and rec.2020 with Metadata which has to be scaled by madVR.
As far as I understand, a hardware decoder is essential for the next generation of video, because even current generation overclocked desktop CPUs are barely managing.
A new GPU with hardware decoder will bring the CPU usage to 0% as I see with the heaviest 40Mbit/s 1080p 24fps bluray content.

My GTX660 handles video just fine with only 20% load of the VPU (video decoder) on 40Mbit/s 1080p videos.
The GPU load is around 10% because I use Lanczos and Bicubic, nothing special.
I don't feels the need to upgrade my GPU (I don't play games at all), but for HEVC hardware decoding maybe I should.

The bigger issue will be cracking HDCP 2.2 and the new AACS, i'm sure HDR movies won't be able to be ripped for a while. After we can rip it the second issue will be HDR metadata as the GPU handling the HDR is different from the TV handling it.

Thirdly, i'm slightly pissed off my JS9000 doesn't fully support HDR, damn marketing, lol.

The good news with HDR is that local dimming on most TVs won't "bug" when used with a HTPC, as the TV lights up areas with movements it also lights up subtitles, making local dimming nearly useless on HTPC setups as it ruins the movie more than helping.

Logically these new subtitles will have fixed positions due to HDR metadata so i hope Madshi will incorporate that or give an option to disable subtitle HDR metadata.

[iSeries]

Originally Posted by Warner306

If the queues aren't filling, your settings are probably still too aggressive.

I can't think which setting would be too aggressive. I should note that I'm downscaling to 1080p, but I tried all scaling methods and and still wouldn't play smoothly. The decoding queue stays full, all other queues stay at 0. I played a similar clip 10bit HEVC, 50fps, and it played smooth as silk with all queues full.

On another note, I've been playing around with some HDR demos on a non-HDR TV. Anyone know roughly what nits I should be choosing for an (uncalibrated) LG plasma?

[Warner306]

I was finally able to watch a 3D Blu-ray yesterday. I converted an ISO to an MKV with MakeMKV. The movie was an MPEG4-AVC version of Avengers: Age of Ultron. The source was an uncompressed frame-packed rip sent to an active 3D display.

I must say I was impressed. While the 3D effect is modest at times, the level of detail was excellent. I was even able to use crispen edges to sharpen the image further.

If I was to choose a version of a movie to watch, I would go for the 3D version. It is a shame 3D technology is being abandoned. But it would take a lot of new titles in my collection to care enough about this tech.

The quirks include some unnecessary time browsing the TV's menus to get 3D working and some trouble getting the 3D glasses to sync with the display. The whole process could be simplified to improve the experience.