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17th July 2014, 17:10 | #26924 | Link |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 288
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Hi Guys,
I've changed my HTPC from this: Silverstone GD08B/Intel 2120T/Noctua NH-U9BSE2/Asus P8H67-M Pro/Corsair XMS 2x2GB/Samsung 830 256 GB/7x2TB HDD/Asus GTX 660/Seasonic X-400 to the setup currently in my signature. So my question is, is there somewhere in this massive thread there is a good explanation of NNEDI and frame doubling and stuff like that? With my previous setup I used Jinc 3 tap but now I am not sure what is optimal with the considerably more powerful GTX 770. Thanks.
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SETUP: Win 10/MPC-HC/LAV/MadVR HARDWARE: Fractal Design Node 804 | Xeon E3-1260L v5 | Supermicro X11SSZ-TLN4F | Samsung 2x8GB DDR4 ECC | Samsung 850 EVO 1TB | MSI GTX 1650 Super | EVGA G2 750 |
17th July 2014, 21:08 | #26925 | Link | |
Troubleshooter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 339
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Quote:
I have NNEDI3 enabled for Luma image doubling, and have it set to 16 neurons since I can see a difference in anti-aliasing when I have it enabled compared to disabled, but I don't see a difference between 16 neurons and any of the higher settings with the content I watch. Some may recommend you use more neurons, but I say you decide that for yourself. Play a video, pause it, switch between the different settings (clicking apply after each) and see if you notice a change in picture quality for the better. If you do - use the new setting, but if not leave it at the lower setting and use those resources elsewhere. madshi has said that he found during his testing that chroma doubling didn't have a significant effect, and was a huge hit on performance. As a result he doesn't recommend using it. As far as chroma upscaling by NNEDI3 goes I don't notice any significant improvement using it over Jinc in the videos I watch, but again you can switch back and forth between the two while watching your videos and see if you see a difference. Another thing I noticed about NNEDI3 when used for chroma upscaling is that it can have a big hit to rendering speed even when it shouldn't be doing much (like if your playing a 1920x1080 video on a 1920x1080 screen. I posted the below on a different forum where I am attempting to help them determine presets for a codec pack that includes madVR using NNEDI3 options to be preset in their setup: Code:
(1): chroma upscaling -jinc 3 taps luma double - always if upscaling is needed - 16 neurons image upscaling - bilinear downscaling - catmull-rom (2): chroma upscaling -jinc luma double - always if upscaling is needed - 16 neurons image upscaling - jinc downscaling - catmull-rom (3): chroma upscaling -jinc luma double - always if upscaling is needed - 32 neurons image upscaling - bilinear downscaling - catmull-rom (4): chroma upscaling -jinc luma double - always if upscaling is needed - 32 neurons image upscaling - jinc downscaling - catmull-rom (5): chroma upscaling -NNEDI3 - 16 neurons luma double - always if upscaling is needed - 16 neurons image upscaling - bilinear downscaling - catmull-rom (6): chroma upscaling -NNEDI3 - 16 neurons luma double - always if upscaling is needed - 16 neurons image upscaling - bilinear downscaling - catmull-rom (7): chroma upscaling -NNEDI3 - 32 neurons luma double - always if upscaling is needed - 16 neurons image upscaling - bilinear downscaling - catmull-rom For people who mainly watch 480p videos the fastest order would probably be (fastest listed first, slowest last) option 1, 3, 5, 2, 7, 4, then 6. 480p video render speeds option #1: 10ms option #2: 20ms option #3: 16ms option #4: 23ms option #5: 18ms option #6: 25ms option #7: 21ms 720p video render speeds option #1: 22ms option #2: 29ms option #3: 27ms option #4: 31ms option #5: 31ms option #6: 35ms option #7: 33ms 1080p video render speeds option #1: 7.5ms option #2: 7.5ms option #3: 9ms option #4: 8.6ms option #5: 24ms option #6: 24ms option #7: 34ms
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System specs: Sager NP9150 SE with i7-3630QM 2.40GHz, 16 GB RAM, 64-bit Windows 10 Pro, NVidia GTX 680M/Intel 4000 HD optimus dual GPU system. Video viewed on LG notebook screen and LG 3D passive TV. Last edited by Anime Viewer; 17th July 2014 at 21:10. |
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18th July 2014, 00:00 | #26926 | Link | |
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 4,407
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Quote:
The chroma is 1/2 the resolution of luma in both directions (4:2:0). You need to resize it to match the luma before converting to RGB. This means that chroma scaling is always used and is independent of the output resolution. This idea seems to be hard for some: There are three image planes for a color image. On a bluray the black and white information (luma, Y) is stored at 1920x1080. Color information is stored as two 960x540 images (chroma, U & V or Cb & Cr). One needs to resize the two 960x540 images to match the 1920x1080 luma before converting to RGB. This resize happens before anything else madVR does and it almost always needs to be done (it is only not needed when watching a 4:4:4 or RGB video). |
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18th July 2014, 09:53 | #26928 | Link | |
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 4,407
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Your display might do anything to the RGB or your GPU might convert to YCbCr if set to. |
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18th July 2014, 17:33 | #26929 | Link | |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 44
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Quote:
Meaning that if it says 4:2:0 -> 4:2:0 that is what my receiver is getting and if I changed a setting to 4:2:0 to 4:4:4 or RGB then even if my display downconverted it wouldn't matter due to MadVR only record what's it output is? |
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18th July 2014, 18:08 | #26931 | Link | |
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 10
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Quote:
Very helpful despite different set ups we have. It is good to see what others may experience with their trial and error techniques. I do precisely the same thing with my videos though any 1920x1080 movies I watch I sometimes just use x64 MPC-BE svn and custom renderer. I find that MadVr offers fantastic PQ enhancement with my favorite types of old b&w videos, color,too, though I watch them with far less frequency just because there were fewer made. I am new to using MadVr and MPC-BE together so still limited in my scope. Never used this combo on any BD disc or iso, not even the mkv versions i make. not yet. Thanks again for the information John
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GA990FXA UD3, FX8350 @4.5gz, MSI480 8GB GAMING X, GSkill 16Gb DDR3 1600, ANTEC 750W PSU,Sam B2430HD, LG42LD550, Onkyo TX-SR608. MPC-BE x64 /32 2235 or up to date MadVr91.5 or up to date |
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18th July 2014, 18:46 | #26935 | Link | |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 44
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Quote:
look like these stats: http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...ScreenCut2.png Or is that not possible? |
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18th July 2014, 22:53 | #26939 | Link | |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 463
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Quote:
As already explaind, playback chain goes: splitter > decoder > render. So, let the LAV Splitter and LAV Decoder decode your file without any conversion (YV12 to NV12 is not conversion, those are same format, different order) and madVR do any scaling and colorspace conversion. Don't try to overcomplicate things. Just because something looks messy and complicated (most online tutorials) does not make it better. |
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19th July 2014, 15:14 | #26940 | Link | ||
Troubleshooter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 339
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Quote:
Quote:
If you're concerned that your colors look washed out in your videos you can experiment with adding the 16-235 to 0-255 [SD][HD] to active shaders in MPC under options -> Playback -> Shaders. Some people don't like it feeling that they loose some of their descreet greys while others feel it adds vibrancy.
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System specs: Sager NP9150 SE with i7-3630QM 2.40GHz, 16 GB RAM, 64-bit Windows 10 Pro, NVidia GTX 680M/Intel 4000 HD optimus dual GPU system. Video viewed on LG notebook screen and LG 3D passive TV. Last edited by Anime Viewer; 19th July 2014 at 16:45. |
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Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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