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Old 18th November 2017, 13:07   #47241  |  Link
ashlar42
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I'll post just this last time on the subject , because, yes, it's off-topic. Advocating for 8.1 usage after more than two years since Windows 10 release is, in my so very humble opinion, kind of backward looking. As time goes by, the stuff that won't work correctly on 8.1 will only grow but, more importantly, there's a clock ticking for when security updates won't be coming anymore.

As such, I feel that all efforts should be directed toward having stuff work correctly on 10. From a user's point of view this includes bugging companies in order for them to fix existing bugs, and so on and so forth.
Suggesting people keep using 8.1, instead, actually slows down the process.

It would be different if madVR was multiplatform. Windows 10 sucks? Go and install Linux (in whatever distro). That would be ok, because it won't be a suggestion with a date of expiration built in.

Cheers and, it goes without saying, only respect and thanks for madshi and nevcariel, who remain free to suggest whatever the hell they prefer, disregarding completely my personal opinion, which ain't worth nothing (and I'm not being ironic).
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Old 18th November 2017, 13:09   #47242  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Linux does not even support HDR at all.
It will happen though.
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Old 18th November 2017, 13:16   #47243  |  Link
Manni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razoola View Post
From how I have been reading things in the last few weeks in relation to nvidia, even DX11 is playing games better than DX12 on win10 machines.
I have no interest re performance, but some games are DirectX 12 exclusive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ctX_12_support. Not that I care that much personally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlar42 View Post
I'll post just this last time on the subject , because, yes, it's off-topic. Advocating for 8.1 usage after more than two years since Windows 10 release is, in my so very humble opinion, kind of backward looking. As time goes by, the stuff that won't work correctly on 8.1 will only grow but, more importantly, there's a clock ticking for when security updates won't be coming anymore.

As such, I feel that all efforts should be directed toward having stuff work correctly on 10. From a user's point of view this includes bugging companies in order for them to fix existing bugs, and so on and so forth.
Suggesting people keep using 8.1, instead, actually slows down the process.

It would be different if madVR was multiplatform. Windows 10 sucks? Go and install Linux (in whatever distro). That would be ok, because it won't be a suggestion with a date of expiration built in.

Cheers and, it goes without saying, only respect and thanks for madshi and nevcariel, who remain free to suggest whatever the hell they prefer, disregarding completely my personal opinion, which ain't worth nothing (and I'm not being ironic).
You are barking at the wrong tree. Madshi and Nev do all they can to make it work as best as possible on all recent/supported OSes and drivers, within reason.

HDR still works fine with Windows 10 pre Fall Creators Update with nVidia 385.28. That's why I stayed with these personally.

The problem is that MS keeps changing things (because they keep getting their HDR support wrong), and just by the time nVidia catches up they break it again.

When MS and nVidia stop this dance, then we'll get stable support (hopefully). This is why, until they get their HDR support in order, it is an option to go back temporarily to 8.1 if your priority is HTPC use.

Otherwise, use older OS/drivers versions, or complain to MS/nVidia instead of complaining here and taking valuable time from the devs who already do all they can to deal with what MS and GPU manufacturers throw our way.
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Last edited by Manni; 18th November 2017 at 13:34.
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Old 18th November 2017, 13:45   #47244  |  Link
e-t172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashlar42 View Post
I suppose you're referring to the assistive tech upgrade path. That's gonna close at the end of this year: https://www.cnet.com/how-to/microsof...tive-features/
No, I'm not referring to that. Even if you don't use assistive tech, you can still install and activate Windows 10, today, with a Windows 7 or 8 key. Nothing changed. And I don't expect it will.
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Old 18th November 2017, 14:36   #47245  |  Link
Patrik G
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Does Madvr downconvert HDR to 8bit and also srgb colorspace when you select "Convert HDR content to SDR"?

when i compare the same hdr content with madvr to my K8500 UHD player i can see that colors are more saturated with madvr but i can also see that the content has the usual 8bit bandings in skies and such.

my tv has 89% of dci p3 colorspace
isnt it possible to set custom colorpoints X and Y for HDR that madvr can convert to instead of the lower srgb colorspace?
that way i can use the full color performance from the tv with HDR.
also leave the 10bit precision alone from the content would be a great idea

Last edited by Patrik G; 18th November 2017 at 14:42.
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Old 18th November 2017, 18:06   #47246  |  Link
ipanema
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This is probably a stupid question. I know that MadVR isn't so difficult to install, but is there a particular reason why it doesn't have a installer (such as NSIS) that might make it even easier for novices to install/uninstall ?
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Old 18th November 2017, 18:38   #47247  |  Link
jkauff
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Originally Posted by ipanema View Post
This is probably a stupid question. I know that MadVR isn't so difficult to install, but is there a particular reason why it doesn't have a installer (such as NSIS) that might make it even easier for novices to install/uninstall ?
I expect version 1.0 will include standard Windows install/uninstall .exe files. I agree that many younger users don't even know what a .bat file does.
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Old 18th November 2017, 18:56   #47248  |  Link
oldpainlesskodi
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Installed the latest win 10 insider build (17040-171110) and the latest nvida driver 388.31,

My observations so far - yep, HDR borked, but, and this is a big but, the PQ has been given a big bump up (such an improved depth, clarity and colour reproduction - far more movie like). I can only assume the dev work that has gone into this build is to squeeze every ounce of PQ for the new Xbox (basically a Win10 box).

Sure, its a trade off for HDR (i've settled on letting MadVR convert, given the sheer volume of non-hdr movies in my collection vs hdr movies), but, from what I've seen, it's a price I'm personally willing to pay (until if and when they fix hdr).

Just my 2 cents.

K

Last edited by oldpainlesskodi; 21st November 2017 at 06:57.
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Old 18th November 2017, 19:55   #47249  |  Link
el Filou
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What do you mean by "depth, clarity and colour reproduction"? Please use more precise terms.
Do you mean MS have improved the HDR conversion to SDR? Or the SDR playback in HDR mode?
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Old 19th November 2017, 04:59   #47250  |  Link
RenderGuy2
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Originally Posted by RenderGuy2 View Post
Regarding Dolby Vision, I'm certainly not an expert on these things, but it seems like the enhancement layer might be a form of ratio image. Basically the 12 bit Dolby Vision source divided by the HDR10 version equals the ratio image which has been down scaled to 1920x1080 (probably among other things). It's sort of a clever way of storing higher bit depth information in two lower bit depth images. In order for MadVR to access the 12 bit Dolbly Vision version, the decoder would need to simultaneously decode both layers (HDR10+enhancement) making both available to MadVR, which would need to scale the enhancement later back up to 3840x2160 and multiply it with the HDR10 pixels. Probably other operations would need to be performed on the enhancement layer, bit shifting or something as in float it would have values greater than one which would need to preserved/recovered. Or all this could be completely wrong
I did some research and it looks like I am wrong. It seems that the enhancement layer is not derived through division, but through subtraction. It contains the residuals from subtracting the HDR10 stream from the Dolby Vision signal. The tricky part is that the residuals are processed with a non-linear quantizer. The parameters of the non-linear quantizer are conveyed via metadata, so to reconstruct the Dolby Vision signal, first you need to read a bunch of metadata to derive the inverse quantizer so that you can access the residuals and add them to the HDR10 baselayer
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Old 19th November 2017, 11:22   #47251  |  Link
d3rd3vil
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Originally Posted by RenderGuy2 View Post
I did some research and it looks like I am wrong. It seems that the enhancement layer is not derived through division, but through subtraction. It contains the residuals from subtracting the HDR10 stream from the Dolby Vision signal. The tricky part is that the residuals are processed with a non-linear quantizer. The parameters of the non-linear quantizer are conveyed via metadata, so to reconstruct the Dolby Vision signal, first you need to read a bunch of metadata to derive the inverse quantizer so that you can access the residuals and add them to the HDR10 baselayer
Damn, well lets do that then
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Old 19th November 2017, 19:46   #47252  |  Link
Braum
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Hi, I got a problem with DXVA and HDR playback.

When I watch a 4K HDR movie downscaled to 2K SDR using only DXVA (copy back) it's seems to be working fine but from time to time (each 10 - 15 mins, it depends) the video stutter and there's a lot of dropped frame. After a minute or so it's back to a good playback.

I use the latest madvr version on Windows 10 64bits

Screenshots :

Good Playback :
https://i.imgur.com/TbZu0ja.jpg

Bad Playback :
https://i.imgur.com/lVEvXFt.jpg

Any ideas why ?
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Old 19th November 2017, 20:10   #47253  |  Link
aufkrawall
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What's the reason for doing DXVA2 copyback when using DXVA2 scaling? If quality isn't that important, why not use native DXVA2 decoding?
It might be that you are triggering a driver bug with your curious combination.
Probably try D3D11VA native decoding with bilinear chroma and bicubic luma scaling if you are spare on GPU resources.
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Old 19th November 2017, 20:28   #47254  |  Link
el Filou
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On the 'good' screenshot, display is at 72 Hz with smoothmotion off, and on the 'bad' one it's at 68 Hz with smoothmotion on, is there a reason for that?
The decoder queue is at 0 in the 'bad' screenshot. My bet is either thermal throttling (this would match the 'good for 10-15 mins then bad for 1 min.' behaviour), or something else is hogging system resources and this impacts copyback severely, but I don't see what would hog the system for 1 full min every 10-15 mins.
Try leaving monitoring tools running to check GPU and CPU clocks and temperatures when this happens, and also if other processes are using the system too much.
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Old 19th November 2017, 21:35   #47255  |  Link
Braum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
What's the reason for doing DXVA2 copyback when using DXVA2 scaling? If quality isn't that important, why not use native DXVA2 decoding?
It might be that you are triggering a driver bug with your curious combination.
Probably try D3D11VA native decoding with bilinear chroma and bicubic luma scaling if you are spare on GPU resources.
I've tried with DXVA native an also with bilinear chroma and bicubic luma, same results. The stutter seems to be shorter with bilinear/bicubic but I'm not sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
On the 'good' screenshot, display is at 72 Hz with smoothmotion off, and on the 'bad' one it's at 68 Hz with smoothmotion on, is there a reason for that?
The decoder queue is at 0 in the 'bad' screenshot. My bet is either thermal throttling (this would match the 'good for 10-15 mins then bad for 1 min.' behaviour), or something else is hogging system resources and this impacts copyback severely, but I don't see what would hog the system for 1 full min every 10-15 mins.
Try leaving monitoring tools running to check GPU and CPU clocks and temperatures when this happens, and also if other processes are using the system too much.
Nice catch, the refresh rate shoud'nt be at 68hz, but should be at a steady 71,928hz. I use CRU to overclock my screen to 72hz, I've tried putting it back to 60hz and the problem persist.

The GPU is between 47 and 49 % during playback and the GPU temperature is a constant 65°C (fan speed at 25%). Jugding by these stats, the problem shoud be due to a lack of GPU power.

Last edited by Braum; 19th November 2017 at 21:39.
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Old 19th November 2017, 23:41   #47256  |  Link
Anima123
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Still I am confusing on the ivtc in madVR, which I normally would like to use it to convert a 59.976 fps progressive video into a 23.976 fps sequence.

Since there's no sign with the ctrl-J screen to show the output status, all I know is that ivtc is activated and the cadence it detects is 2:2. If the source is 59.976 fps progressive video, what exactly is what I get in the end?

If it didn't work as I expected, is there a way (how-to maybe?) to get there?

Edit: In other words, maybe it would be, can madVR ivtc treat 59.976 fps progressive video as 30i sequences?

Last edited by Anima123; 19th November 2017 at 23:43.
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Old 19th November 2017, 23:50   #47257  |  Link
actarusfleed
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NVIDIA bug

Hi Guys,
just advised one year ago ... now I re-checked it and the bug still there.

My HTPC has Win 10 64bit with an Nvidia GTX 970 with the latest driver (388.31).
Last madVR release installed.

I Used MadVR TPG to do this test ...



Like you can see if you outs with a 2160p higher than 8bit the graphic card goes in wrong with the secondary colors (cyan, yellow and magenta). Especially cyan is massively in error.

I'm the one noticed this bug??

thank you
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Old 20th November 2017, 00:06   #47258  |  Link
huhn
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could be your display.
do you have an AMD or IGPU to double check?
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Old 20th November 2017, 00:24   #47259  |  Link
actarusfleed
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...

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
could be your display.
I don't think so .... because one year ago I discovered it on my Oled TV (metz).
Today I performed this test an my JVC DLA-X7500 projector (precalibrated with my DVDO TPG) and the problem is the same like one year ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
do you have an AMD or IGPU to double check?
Unfortunately not.

One minute ago I've done another test....
I've checked secondary colors without using MadTPG. I've used a blu ray test pattern disc reproduced using madvr.... the secondary color are OK.
Cyan is perfect.

So I'm starting to think that MadVR TPG has some problems when it has to work with an nvidia outputting 2160p + 12bit ....

Can you do some tests ? please
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Old 20th November 2017, 02:39   #47260  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by actarusfleed View Post
Hi Guys,
just advised one year ago ... now I re-checked it and the bug still there.

My HTPC has Win 10 64bit with an Nvidia GTX 970 with the latest driver (388.31).
Last madVR release installed.
I am not sure but it seems like it must be your display or pattern generator?

I am running Calman 2017 Home Enthusiast, Win 10 (1709), an Nvidia Titan X (Pascal) with the 388.31 drivers, and madVR v0.92.9 TPG. I recently compared calibrations in 8 and 12-bit (to see if either was better for 3DLUT creation) and they were identical. I am using a LG OLED C7P in wide gamut, SDR, full range RGB, and PC mode.
Edit:
Here is my uncalibrated gamut, target DCI-P3 D65, with the GPU outputting 12-bit RGB and madVR set to 10-bit:
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Last edited by Asmodian; 20th November 2017 at 04:12.
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