Audio lag / audio sync problems

[orbsplateau]

Audio lag / audio sync problems

This is about the 10th DVD I’m backing up with Rebuilder so, I’m pretty new to all this. Any help would be very much appreciated.

Problem:
Trying to backup Futurama (region 1) DVD Volume 3, disk 3 (5 episodes) 5.6GB --> 4.3GB
Audio is OK at the beginning of each episode, but a slight lag becomes noticeable withing the first ~3 minutes of video. The problem gets progressively worse and the lag grows to ~2-3 seconds towards the end of a 22 minute episode. This happens on all the 5 episodes on this DVD.

I’ve tested the files right before running Rebuilder and there’s no audio lag. After running Rebuilder however, the audio lag appears consistently (tried the process 4-5 times using different settings). I’ve tried re-installing AviSynth and DvDRebuilder, but that didn’t make a difference.

The source files are pretty much untouched, though certain audio streams have been removed by IFOedit. I’d strip the audio using Dvd Rebuilder but IFOedit seems to do a cleaner job. When I removed the additional audio tracks using Rebuilder, I could cycle through all the tracks by pressing the ‘audio’ button and see their names on-screen even though the streams had been removed.

(Edit: After posting this message, I tried to backup my DVD again, but this time I used Rebuilder to strip the unwanted audio. I only used IFO edit after all the encoding was done. This time there was no audio lag. It seems that using IFOedit to strip the audio before encoding with Rebuilder was somehow causing the problem... though I'd used this method to backup DVDs on previous occaisons without encountering any audio sync issues).

I’ve tried reading the output files using different players (PowerDVD, VLC and 2 standalone players) but it doesn’t seem to make a difference. The audio lag is there whether the files are being read off my hard drive or from a burnt DVD.

I'm using

• Dvd Revuilder 0.89 (free) - Rockas Installer
  AviSynth 2.5.5 + dgmpgdec110 + Decomb521 + MPEG2Dec3dg + other standard plugins
  CCE SP 2.67 Retail
  IFOedit
  DvdDecryptor

CCE Settings:

• VBR Bias: tried 25, 30 and 35
  Quality Prec: tried 20 and 24
  VBR passes: tried 3 and 4

AVS Options:

• Convert to YUY2() - Enabled
  AudiDUB(BlankClip()) - tried Enabled and Disabled
  Deinterlace with DECOMB - tried Enabled and Disabled
  MPEG2Source(“source”,idct=7) - tried Enabled and Disabled

Other enabled options:

• Suppress Warning prompts
  one-click mode
  verbose status window
  status logging
  CCE mode.

The “working” and “output” path are on 2 separate defragmented NTFS hard drives, each with about 10GB of empty space.

Computer system:
PIII 733Mhz, 512MB RAM, three 7200 RPM 80GB harddrives
running Windows 2000 SP4



I really don’t know what’s causing the problem and I’m not sure how to investigate it any further. I’ve backed up other movies and Futurama DVDs using Rebuilder and this is the first time I’ve encountered this problem.


What’s different this time?

• 1) At 5.6GB this is the largest disk I’ve backed up so far. The others were no more than 500MB to 600MB over the 4.3GB limit.
  
  2) I’ve installed Gordian Knot Codec & RipPack, VirtualDub and the latest version of XviD and DivX since the last time I backed up a DVD. I’ve removed VirtualDub and Gordian Knot’s RipPack but that hasn’t changed anything.
  
  3) The other movies and Futurama DVDs I backed up had all the main video files under one title. All 3 or 4 episodes would be under VTS_04 for example. On this DVD, episode 1 is in VTS_04, episode 2 is in VTS_05 and so forth. It’s as if there are 5 independent short movies on the same DVD.
  
  4) I’ve upgraded the firmware on my DVD Writer. It’s an LG GSA-4163B.

There’s really nothing else that I’ve done to my computer since I successfully backed up a DVD last week.


Any ideas?! I’m stomped.

Don’t know if it will help but attached to the next message you’ll find a ZIP file containing a copy of the Rebuilder log / inf / ECL files.

I’m hoping to get some guidance before I try anything else - especially since it takes my computer nearly 10 hours to properly backup a single DVD using CCE SP.

Thank you.

[orbsplateau]

attached files

[buzzqw]

dumb question: changed mpeg2source dll ?

are you using mpeg2dec3 or dgdecode ?

BHH

[orbsplateau]

Both DGDecode.dll and MPEG2Dec3dg.dll are present in AviSynth's plugin folder but it seems that DGDecode 1.1.0 is setup as the default decoder in DVDRebuilder. I haven't tried using a different decoder, or any other version of DGDecodde.

I've kept most of the installer's default settings and I haven't made changes to any of the DLL files. I'm pretty new to this, so I wouldn't know where to begin!


I'm trying to learn the "Big 3" method right now just in case, but I'd still prefer to use Rebuilder. It's such a nice program.

[jdobbs]

I'll see if I can repeat this. Have you tried it without any IFOEdit changes (although I don't think that's a likely cause)?

[orbsplateau]

it's worth a shot.

I just started it up. I'm stripping the streams directly in Rebuilder this time. I'll post an update in ~12 hours.

[jikchung]

I did this one a while back, but never checked it. I'll pop it in after work and verify it as well.

[gizzin]

I did a backup with I think it was .87 I'm not sure on this, but It was season 3 of sopranos disk 2. In one of the episodes the audio goes out of sync with the video and then shortly fixes itself. I used CCE 2.67.00.23 trial, DGDecode 1.1.0.0, audiodub and convertTOYUY2 both checked, 2Passes. Stripped the 2.0 Audio with rebuilder. I've done lots of backups with Rebuilder when the audio dropouts got fixed and I've haven't had a error since sopranos atleast playback wise.

[orbsplateau]

Originally posted by jdobbs
I'll see if I can repeat this. Have you tried it without any IFOEdit changes (although I don't think that's a likely cause)?

I'm confused and sort of happy.

I didn't think it was the likely cause either but somehow it worked. 5th time lucky I guess?

So if I encode the original files and remove additional audio using Rebuilder: no audio lag.
If I remove an audio stream with IFO edit: no audio lag.
If I encode the files modified by IFOedit using Rebuilder: audio lag.

that's weird.

Maybe I shouldn't do "get VTS sectors" after I make any changes with IFO edit?

[jptheripper]

maybe you shouldnt make changes with ifoedit

no seriously, if you think ifoedit does a better job, uncheck the audio in rebuilder and run it in 3 click mode. Prepare and encode

on rebuild reclick the audio, this will build an oversized dvd.

then remove with ifoedit and get vts sectors.

however i feel rebuilder does an excellent job on audio, and would avoid using ifo edit

just my two cents

[jikchung]

I checked my Futurama backup done with version ~.81 and it had no issues. I did no pre-processing though.

[orbsplateau]

Originally posted by jptheripper
no seriously, if you think ifoedit does a better job, uncheck the audio in rebuilder and run it in 3 click mode. Prepare and encode

on rebuild reclick the audio, this will build an oversized dvd.

then remove with ifoedit and get vts sectors.

thanks for the tip.
will the final size of the DVD be OK? Is there anything else I need to know about this method?

Originally posted by jptheripper
however i feel rebuilder does an excellent job on audio, and would avoid using ifo edit

Rebuilder does a fine job, no argument.

i just wish there was an option available to have Rebuilder automatically update the IFO files the way IFOedit does.
That way, when I'm watching the DVD, pressing the audio button whould only cycle through the audio streams actually present (feature request?)

I'll play around with IFOedit to see if I can do it manually.

[mrslacker]

Originally posted by jptheripper
on rebuild reclick the audio, this will build an oversized dvd.

then remove with ifoedit and get vts sectors.

This is a good idea, but I don't think you even need to rebuild with the streams checked. IfoEdit would probably see the stream information even without the actual stream. That's how orbsplateau's standalone can cycle through them. Coming to think of it, I think there might be a way to just edit the ifos with PgcEdit and not bother rewriting the VOBs. Hmmm...

[jdobbs]

Just my opinion -- but if you start editing the way the IFOs present/know-of the audio you are asking for trouble (as you have seen). That's why DVD-RB does it the way it does...

[orbsplateau]

Originally posted by mrslacker
This is a good idea, but I don't think you even need to rebuild with the streams checked. IfoEdit would probably see the stream information even without the actual stream. That's how orbsplateau's standalone can cycle through them. Coming to think of it, I think there might be a way to just edit the ifos with PgcEdit and not bother rewriting the VOBs. Hmmm...

well... I tried something stupid and it worked.

since the IFO files "see" the audio, whether or not the audio is actually present, I just used IFOedit to re-strip the streams from the VOB files that have already been stripped!

I thought I might get an error or something... but nope. All is well.

The final VOB file is even slightly smaller than before since I stripped the additional subtitles from it.

[mrslacker]

Originally posted by orbsplateau
well... I tried something stupid and it worked.

Hey! That was my stupid idea!

[eriksen76]

I have done 150+ movies with Dvdrebuilder and all of them pre-processed with Ifoedit.

I've never had any sync problems so far - It works like a charm

/Eriksen76

[jdobbs]

It all depends what you do. IFOEdit is a very powerful tool -- and is useful in the right hands while being extremely dangerous in the wrong.

[orbsplateau]

I had processed my other movies with IFOedit as well. This was the first time I ecountered any issues.

Maybe I shouldn't have checked off "Rebuild PTS (needed for CCE)"... It's the only non-default option I checked off.

I'll try to backup another disk during the weekend and see what happens.

[jdobbs]

I love IFOEDIT -- but I guess I just don't get the point. Why add a step to the process when you could just let DVD-RB do it?