Announcing DVDSubEdit Version 1.51 - Page 19

Mtz · 25th April 2006, 20:09

Hmm... I found some timming bugs in the output file when using a SUP file send to me by a friend which wanted some help.

91
00:08:03,0 --> 00:08:06,709 <<< bug

....

97
00:08:26,40 --> 00:08:27,359 <<< bug

98
00:08:29,0 --> 00:08:33,437 <<< bug

Another strange thing:

102
00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:52,437
That's my baby boy.
<<< bug ?
103
00:00:00,531 --> 00:00:03,967
-Where were you at my game, sis?
-Oh, l had to study for that history test.

enjoy,
Mtz

jeanl · 25th April 2006, 20:12

Mtz, how do you know the timings are not correct? Or do you mean the 100th of a second should always be displayed with 3 digits? I'm not following you...
Jeanl

kumi · 25th April 2006, 20:20

Thanks, jeanl! I will test your new DCSQT functions this weekend.

CoNS · 25th April 2006, 20:45

@jeanl: I agree with Mtz that the milliseconds at the end of the time codes always should be displayed with three digits... (However, I'm not sure if it's just cosmetic, or if it's against the specs for the .srt file format, causing problems when other apps are reading the file?)

Wrt subtitle lines #102 and #103 in Mtz' example I think he's trying to show you that the time codes are not continous. They jump from the 9th minute in the movie (subtitle line #102) to the first minute (#103)...

mpucoder · 26th April 2006, 01:23

That's probably a new vob. Seems we're discussing timing in two places.

jeanl · 26th April 2006, 01:33

Yes, it looks like the PTS got reset and the output was not properly adjusted. I'll have to look into that...
Thanks CoNS, I had completely missed the point!
Jeanl

mpucoder · 26th April 2006, 01:36

Since the sup came from another program there isn't much you can do as you don't know the exact duration of the first vob. Maybe a best guess (a little after the last spu) and then a manual adjustment?

Mtz · 26th April 2006, 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoNS

it's against the specs for the .srt file format...

Yes! Must to be 3 digits always.

@mpucoder, also I read the "thread about timmings" but in that thread is a specific problem encountered by some user. I posted my fingings here because them are related to DVDSubEdit and I want to help jeanl. The SUP file was extracted with DVDSubEdit, previous version before this.

enjoy,
Mtz

mpucoder · 26th April 2006, 02:20

NP, it was just an observation (and I should have used a smiley - can we still call them smilies or has that been copyrighted and trademarked? Emoticons - oops, patented). The other thread is talking about a multitude of programs with timing problems, and I hope by talking about it in that forum that these programs will get fixed.
Many readers of this thread are probably unaware of that discussion, but can use this information.

As for the sup being created by DVDSubEdit, yeah, jeanl can fix that. But there are other programs doing the same thing, so importing a sup with clock reset will be around for a long time.

CoNS · 26th April 2006, 07:58

@mpucoder: Yeah, we're kinda in a grey zone between the subtitle section and the IFO/VOB Editors section... *smile* (that's not copyrighted, is it?!!)

(For users that didn't already find it: Here is the other thread about PTS calculation and time codes, as mentioned by mpucoder)

Mtz, do you remember which version of DVDSubEdit you used for saving the .SUP file? It's new to me that there should be a PTS/clock reset bug like this in DVDSubEdit when extracting .SUPs... Does the same thing occur if you open the same movie and save a .SUP with the latest version of DVDSubEdit?

I wonder what other programs that are capable of extracting .SUP files (PgcDemux, VobEdit, DVD Decrypter?, SubRip etc.) have this PTS/clock reset bug, too?!

Mtz · 26th April 2006, 08:39

The used version was: 1.322. As I told in some previous post the SUP file was extracted by some friend with 1.322. I cannot extract another the SUP because the DVD is not mine and I don't have it.

enjoy,
Mtz

mpucoder · 26th April 2006, 14:57

I just tried VobEdit 0.6 and it did not account for clock reset. PgcDemux, on the other hand, does. I believe PgcDemux was the first to get this right (the version I had handy was an old 1.2.0.4).

jeanl · 26th April 2006, 16:34

Yes, jsoto alerted me to the reset problem, but I didn't implement it the right way at the time (saving a .sup was not high on my list at the time), so I'm not surprised that pgcdemux does it right. I will have to fix that in DVDSubEdit. I'll let you know when that's done...
Thanks guys.
Jeanl

jeanl · 26th April 2006, 17:49

Guys, I posted a quick update of DVDSubEdit to fix the discontinuous PTS problem (and also the srt display problem)
http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit...bEdit1.324.zip

Mtz, can you check whether this fixes your discontinuity problem?
Jeanl

Mtz · 27th April 2006, 03:33

OK, first I will say what I did (used another DVD (NTSC 29.970) than the one used in my previous report):

I. Used PGCDemux to extract all streams, including one big VOB file (used to check the subtitles in Subtitles Workshop). Sup file named EnSubPGCDemux.sup. Run OCR and saved as: EnSubPGCDemux.srt.

II. Used DVDSubEdit to extract the subpictures. Sup file named EnSubDVDSubEdit.sup Run OCR and saved as: EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt.

III. Used SubRip to OCR to srt file. Srt file named EnSubRip.srt

Tests:

1. Compared the output between EnSubPGCDemux.sup and EnSubDVDSubEdit.sup in hex and found some differences. The differences are regarding to timing, more exactly, the programs used different delays applied to all subtitles with a constant value. PGCDemux reported Delay=0. This was checked later in the srt outputs

2. Compared the EnSubPGCDemux.srt and EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt in notepad and Subtitles Workshop and I found a delay:

EnSubPGCDemux.srt
1
00:00:58,799 --> 00:01:01,064

2
00:01:01,233 --> 00:01:03,929
...
1552
01:36:31,300 --> 01:36:34,531

1553
01:36:36,133 --> 01:36:38,033

EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt
1
00:00:59,299 --> 00:01:01,564

2
00:01:01,733 --> 00:01:04,429
...
1552
01:36:31,800 --> 01:36:35,031

1553
01:36:36,633 --> 01:36:38,533

From the line 1553: 36,633 - 36,133 = + 500 milliseconds between EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt and EnSubPGCDemux.srt. The difference is so small, so I can't tell which is the correct delay.

3. Testing the SRT files in Subtitles Workshop and using the big VOB with all movie. Only EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt and EnSubRip.srt tested because no needing the EnSubPGCDemux.srt because of the small constant delay.
a.) This is a screenshot from EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt. The delay is negative, progressive and bigger.

b.) This is a screenshot from EnSubRip.srt. As you can see the subtitle line is displayed correct.

4. Comparing the last timing (approx.) betweens srt files:
EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt
1553
01:36:36,633 --> 01:36:38,533 <<< negative delay

EnSubPGCDemux.srt
1553
01:36:36,133 --> 01:36:38,033 <<< negative delay

EnSubRip.srt
1553
01:36:42,070 --> 01:36:44,038 <<< seems to be correct.

5. Comparing the last timings in Subtitles Creator betweens SUP files:

EnSubDVDSubEdit.sup

EnSubPGCDemux.sup

EnSubRip.srt

(Screenshot from Subtitles Workhsop)

The closest values seems to be between PGCDemux and SubRip.

Concusion: I thing the SUP files are extracted correctly by DVDSubEdit (excluding the delay, maybe), but the OCR to srt timing seems to be not correct because of the proggresive negative delay.

I know CoNS have some DVDs for testing. I hope he can help too.

enjoy,
Mtz

jeanl · 27th April 2006, 05:46

Mtz, could you post the .sup file on yousendit.com? They're not big I guess. This would allow me to make sense of all this. It is possible that PGCDemux and DVDSubEdit don't get the same delay: DVDSubEdit removes the PTS of the first navpack it finds in the VOB file. I suspect that PGCDemux subtract the PTS of the first navpack in the PGC you're demuxing. This might be different if there's another PGC before the one you demuxed.

In any case, what makes you say that SubRip gets the right value? Visual inspection?
jeanl

Mtz · 27th April 2006, 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanl

In any case, what makes you say that SubRip gets the right value? Visual inspection?
jeanl

Visual inspection. But as you can see in the example screenshots from SubtitesCreator, the SUP timings seems to be OK.
The files are uploaded here.

enjoy,
Mtz

jeanl · 28th April 2006, 04:57

Thanks Mtz... May I suggest that you use yousendit.com rather than rapidshare? It's a real pain to download anything from there (finding where to click, waiting a while while they do their pitch etc etc)...
I'll take a look at the files...
Jeanl

jeanl · 28th April 2006, 05:08

I'm really puzzled here... The DVDSubEdit .sup file has a first spu at PTS 5297292 (58.80s) and the PGCDemux .sup has it at PTS 5342337 (59.30s)! I'm not sure how that came to be! To really figure it out, I would need a bit of the VOB file as well so I can see where the difference comes from. I could see how DVDSubEdit would show a PTS that's later than PGCDemux, but not smaller...
??
jeanl

Mtz · 28th April 2006, 12:47

Files sent. Check your mail and your PM.

enjoy,
Mtz

25th April 2006, 20:12	#362 \| Link
jeanl Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California, USA Posts: 2,079	Mtz, how do you know the timings are not correct? Or do you mean the 100th of a second should always be displayed with 3 digits? I'm not following you... Jeanl __________________ A few PgcEdit guides. DVDSubEdit a free tool to edit subtitles directly inside the vob.

26th April 2006, 01:33	#366 \| Link
jeanl Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California, USA Posts: 2,079	Yes, it looks like the PTS got reset and the output was not properly adjusted. I'll have to look into that... Thanks CoNS, I had completely missed the point! Jeanl __________________ A few PgcEdit guides. DVDSubEdit a free tool to edit subtitles directly inside the vob.

26th April 2006, 16:34	#373 \| Link
jeanl Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California, USA Posts: 2,079	Yes, jsoto alerted me to the reset problem, but I didn't implement it the right way at the time (saving a .sup was not high on my list at the time), so I'm not surprised that pgcdemux does it right. I will have to fix that in DVDSubEdit. I'll let you know when that's done... Thanks guys. Jeanl __________________ A few PgcEdit guides. DVDSubEdit a free tool to edit subtitles directly inside the vob.

26th April 2006, 17:49	#374 \| Link
jeanl Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California, USA Posts: 2,079	Guys, I posted a quick update of DVDSubEdit to fix the discontinuous PTS problem (and also the srt display problem) http://www.videohelp.com/~DVDSubEdit...bEdit1.324.zip Mtz, can you check whether this fixes your discontinuity problem? Jeanl __________________ A few PgcEdit guides. DVDSubEdit a free tool to edit subtitles directly inside the vob.

27th April 2006, 03:33	#375 \| Link
Mtz Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On The Beach Posts: 714	OK, first I will say what I did (used another DVD (NTSC 29.970) than the one used in my previous report): I. Used PGCDemux to extract all streams, including one big VOB file (used to check the subtitles in Subtitles Workshop). Sup file named EnSubPGCDemux.sup. Run OCR and saved as: EnSubPGCDemux.srt. II. Used DVDSubEdit to extract the subpictures. Sup file named EnSubDVDSubEdit.sup Run OCR and saved as: EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt. III. Used SubRip to OCR to srt file. Srt file named EnSubRip.srt Tests: 1. Compared the output between EnSubPGCDemux.sup and EnSubDVDSubEdit.sup in hex and found some differences. The differences are regarding to timing, more exactly, the programs used different delays applied to all subtitles with a constant value. PGCDemux reported Delay=0. This was checked later in the srt outputs 2. Compared the EnSubPGCDemux.srt and EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt in notepad and Subtitles Workshop and I found a delay: EnSubPGCDemux.srt 1 00:00:58,799 --> 00:01:01,064 2 00:01:01,233 --> 00:01:03,929 ... 1552 01:36:31,300 --> 01:36:34,531 1553 01:36:36,133 --> 01:36:38,033 EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt 1 00:00:59,299 --> 00:01:01,564 2 00:01:01,733 --> 00:01:04,429 ... 1552 01:36:31,800 --> 01:36:35,031 1553 01:36:36,633 --> 01:36:38,533 From the line 1553: 36,633 - 36,133 = + 500 milliseconds between EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt and EnSubPGCDemux.srt. The difference is so small, so I can't tell which is the correct delay. 3. Testing the SRT files in Subtitles Workshop and using the big VOB with all movie. Only EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt and EnSubRip.srt tested because no needing the EnSubPGCDemux.srt because of the small constant delay. a.) This is a screenshot from EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt. The delay is negative, progressive and bigger. b.) This is a screenshot from EnSubRip.srt. As you can see the subtitle line is displayed correct. 4. Comparing the last timing (approx.) betweens srt files: EnSubDVDSubEdit.srt 1553 01:36:36,633 --> 01:36:38,533 <<< negative delay EnSubPGCDemux.srt 1553 01:36:36,133 --> 01:36:38,033 <<< negative delay EnSubRip.srt 1553 01:36:42,070 --> 01:36:44,038 <<< seems to be correct. 5. Comparing the last timings in Subtitles Creator betweens SUP files: EnSubDVDSubEdit.sup EnSubPGCDemux.sup EnSubRip.srt (Screenshot from Subtitles Workhsop) The closest values seems to be between PGCDemux and SubRip. Concusion: I thing the SUP files are extracted correctly by DVDSubEdit (excluding the delay, maybe), but the OCR to srt timing seems to be not correct because of the proggresive negative delay. I know CoNS have some DVDs for testing. I hope he can help too. enjoy, Mtz Last edited by Mtz; 27th April 2006 at 04:21.

25th April 2006, 20:09	#361 \| Link
Mtz Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On The Beach Posts: 714	Hmm... I found some timming bugs in the output file when using a SUP file send to me by a friend which wanted some help. 91 00:08:03,0 --> 00:08:06,709 <<< bug .... 97 00:08:26,40 --> 00:08:27,359 <<< bug 98 00:08:29,0 --> 00:08:33,437 <<< bug Another strange thing: 102 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:52,437 That's my baby boy. <<< bug ? 103 00:00:00,531 --> 00:00:03,967 -Where were you at my game, sis? -Oh, l had to study for that history test. enjoy, Mtz

25th April 2006, 20:20	#363 \| Link
kumi Straight to video Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 637	Thanks, jeanl! I will test your new DCSQT functions this weekend.

25th April 2006, 20:45	#364 \| Link
CoNS reMember Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Under your bed Posts: 728	@jeanl: I agree with Mtz that the milliseconds at the end of the time codes always should be displayed with three digits... (However, I'm not sure if it's just cosmetic, or if it's against the specs for the .srt file format, causing problems when other apps are reading the file?) Wrt subtitle lines #102 and #103 in Mtz' example I think he's trying to show you that the time codes are not continous. They jump from the 9th minute in the movie (subtitle line #102) to the first minute (#103)...

26th April 2006, 01:23	#365 \| Link
mpucoder Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,530	That's probably a new vob. Seems we're discussing timing in two places.

26th April 2006, 01:36	#367 \| Link
mpucoder Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,530	Since the sup came from another program there isn't much you can do as you don't know the exact duration of the first vob. Maybe a best guess (a little after the last spu) and then a manual adjustment?

26th April 2006, 02:20	#369 \| Link
mpucoder Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,530	NP, it was just an observation (and I should have used a smiley - can we still call them smilies or has that been copyrighted and trademarked? Emoticons - oops, patented). The other thread is talking about a multitude of programs with timing problems, and I hope by talking about it in that forum that these programs will get fixed. Many readers of this thread are probably unaware of that discussion, but can use this information. As for the sup being created by DVDSubEdit, yeah, jeanl can fix that. But there are other programs doing the same thing, so importing a sup with clock reset will be around for a long time.

26th April 2006, 07:58	#370 \| Link
CoNS reMember Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Under your bed Posts: 728	@mpucoder: Yeah, we're kinda in a grey zone between the subtitle section and the IFO/VOB Editors section... smile (that's not copyrighted, is it?!!) (For users that didn't already find it: Here is the other thread about PTS calculation and time codes, as mentioned by mpucoder) Mtz, do you remember which version of DVDSubEdit you used for saving the .SUP file? It's new to me that there should be a PTS/clock reset bug like this in DVDSubEdit when extracting .SUPs... Does the same thing occur if you open the same movie and save a .SUP with the latest version of DVDSubEdit? I wonder what other programs that are capable of extracting .SUP files (PgcDemux, VobEdit, DVD Decrypter?, SubRip etc.) have this PTS/clock reset bug, too?!

26th April 2006, 08:39	#371 \| Link
Mtz Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On The Beach Posts: 714	The used version was: 1.322. As I told in some previous post the SUP file was extracted by some friend with 1.322. I cannot extract another the SUP because the DVD is not mine and I don't have it. enjoy, Mtz

26th April 2006, 14:57	#372 \| Link
mpucoder Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,530	I just tried VobEdit 0.6 and it did not account for clock reset. PgcDemux, on the other hand, does. I believe PgcDemux was the first to get this right (the version I had handy was an old 1.2.0.4).

27th April 2006, 05:46	#376 \| Link
jeanl Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California, USA Posts: 2,079	Mtz, could you post the .sup file on yousendit.com? They're not big I guess. This would allow me to make sense of all this. It is possible that PGCDemux and DVDSubEdit don't get the same delay: DVDSubEdit removes the PTS of the first navpack it finds in the VOB file. I suspect that PGCDemux subtract the PTS of the first navpack in the PGC you're demuxing. This might be different if there's another PGC before the one you demuxed. In any case, what makes you say that SubRip gets the right value? Visual inspection? jeanl __________________ A few PgcEdit guides. DVDSubEdit a free tool to edit subtitles directly inside the vob.

28th April 2006, 04:57	#378 \| Link
jeanl Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California, USA Posts: 2,079	Thanks Mtz... May I suggest that you use yousendit.com rather than rapidshare? It's a real pain to download anything from there (finding where to click, waiting a while while they do their pitch etc etc)... I'll take a look at the files... Jeanl __________________ A few PgcEdit guides. DVDSubEdit a free tool to edit subtitles directly inside the vob.

28th April 2006, 05:08	#379 \| Link
jeanl Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California, USA Posts: 2,079	I'm really puzzled here... The DVDSubEdit .sup file has a first spu at PTS 5297292 (58.80s) and the PGCDemux .sup has it at PTS 5342337 (59.30s)! I'm not sure how that came to be! To really figure it out, I would need a bit of the VOB file as well so I can see where the difference comes from. I could see how DVDSubEdit would show a PTS that's later than PGCDemux, but not smaller... ?? jeanl __________________ A few PgcEdit guides. DVDSubEdit a free tool to edit subtitles directly inside the vob.

28th April 2006, 12:47	#380 \| Link
Mtz Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On The Beach Posts: 714	Files sent. Check your mail and your PM. enjoy, Mtz

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