BD Rebuilder Beta - Bug Reports Only

[colinhunt]

Ran another backup job on Eureka's Two-lane Blacktop. This time I used the following settings:

Multiprocess disabled
DGDecNV enabled
"Use DEINT" unticked
"IVTC 3:2 pulldown sources" unticked

The previously out-of-audio-sync extra feature came out interlaced (as expected) and with audio in-sync with picture.

[omegaman7]

Jdobbs. I rarely use the MKV output option, but this could be considered a bug(however excellent quality). I used the CRF 18 option. Usually this yields 4 - 5Gb in size. The result is 1.89Gb. (Video stream 2,132 Kbps)

[03/02/12] BD Rebuilder v0.40.08 (beta)
[01:30:32] Source:  THE_THING_2011
  - Input BD size: 28.31 GB
  - Approximate total content: [01:43:00.799]
  - Windows Version: 6.1 [7601]
  - MOVIE-ONLY/ALTERNATE OUTPUT mode enabled
  - Mode: MKV Container, 1280x720, 448Kbs DD5.1
  - Decoding/Frame serving: DGDecNV
  - Audio Settings: AC3=0 DTS=1 HD=0 Kbs=640
[01:30:34] PHASE ONE, Encoding
 - [01:30:34] Processing: VID_50201 (1 of 1)
 - [01:30:34] Extracting A/V streams [VID_50201]
 - [01:38:34] Reencoding video [VID_50201]
   - Source Video: VC-1, 1920x1080
   - Rate/Length: 23.976fps, 148,191 frames
 - [01:38:34] Reencoding: VID_50201, Pass 1 of 1
 - [02:49:16] Video Encode complete
 - [02:49:16] Processing audio tracks
   - Track 4352 (eng): Reencoding audio to AC3...
[02:52:27]PHASE ONE complete
[02:52:27]PHASE TWO - Rebuild Started
 - [02:52:27] Building ALTERNATE OUTPUT Structure
[02:53:15] - Encode and Rebuild complete
[02:53:15] JOB: THE_THING_2011 finished.

I haven't actually watched it yet, but it appears all frames are intact(full running time), audio's good, and picture quality is amazingly very good!

[jdobbs]

Originally Posted by omegaman7

Jdobbs. I rarely use the MKV output option, but this could be considered a bug(however excellent quality). I used the CRF 18 option. Usually this yields 4 - 5Gb in size. The result is 1.89Gb. (Video stream 2,132 Kbps)

[03/02/12] BD Rebuilder v0.40.08 (beta)
[01:30:32] Source:  THE_THING_2011
  - Input BD size: 28.31 GB
  - Approximate total content: [01:43:00.799]
  - Windows Version: 6.1 [7601]
  - MOVIE-ONLY/ALTERNATE OUTPUT mode enabled
  - Mode: MKV Container, 1280x720, 448Kbs DD5.1
  - Decoding/Frame serving: DGDecNV
  - Audio Settings: AC3=0 DTS=1 HD=0 Kbs=640
[01:30:34] PHASE ONE, Encoding
 - [01:30:34] Processing: VID_50201 (1 of 1)
 - [01:30:34] Extracting A/V streams [VID_50201]
 - [01:38:34] Reencoding video [VID_50201]
   - Source Video: VC-1, 1920x1080
   - Rate/Length: 23.976fps, 148,191 frames
 - [01:38:34] Reencoding: VID_50201, Pass 1 of 1
 - [02:49:16] Video Encode complete
 - [02:49:16] Processing audio tracks
   - Track 4352 (eng): Reencoding audio to AC3...
[02:52:27]PHASE ONE complete
[02:52:27]PHASE TWO - Rebuild Started
 - [02:52:27] Building ALTERNATE OUTPUT Structure
[02:53:15] - Encode and Rebuild complete
[02:53:15] JOB: THE_THING_2011 finished.

I haven't actually watched it yet, but it appears all frames are intact(full running time), audio's good, and picture quality is amazingly very good!

I'm confused... what's the bug? CRF could come out pretty much any size.

[omegaman7]

2Gb!? I was under the impression, that a lower CRF, means maintaining the quality as much as possible. Even CRF 20 usually yields a larger size. I guess if this isn't considered a bug, my bad I prefer MKV to be upwards of 4,000Kbps. I guess I'll have to start specifying that Unfortunately that means 2 passes...

[jdobbs]

Originally Posted by colinhunt

Ran another backup job on Eureka's Two-lane Blacktop. This time I used the following settings:

Multiprocess disabled
DGDecNV enabled
"Use DEINT" unticked
"IVTC 3:2 pulldown sources" unticked

The previously out-of-audio-sync extra feature came out interlaced (as expected) and with audio in-sync with picture.

So the changes were turning off Multiprocessing, Deinterlacing and IVTC?

[jdobbs]

Originally Posted by omegaman7

2Gb!? I was under the impression, that a lower CRF, means maintaining the quality as much as possible. Even CRF 20 usually yields a larger size. I guess if this isn't considered a bug, my bad I prefer MKV to be upwards of 4,000Kbps. I guess I'll have to start specifying that Unfortunately that means 2 passes...

The size could be anywhere with CRF. Yes, a lower value yields better quality, but quality doesn't automatically imply a huge size. That would just indicate that the source was probably exceptionally easy to compress. A lot of static scenes could do that. You wouldn't think of that type of movie (THE_THING) to be static, though. I usually see smaller sizes with things like computer animation (e.g. Pixar movies).

It could be that the audio was smaller too...

[omegaman7]

Ahh yes. I understand now. Thanks. Much like PNG/GIF is a very intelligent format for image compression(depending on color space of course). Which is why an animated/cgi movie would be smaller. The colors are rather basic.

A black and white film would probably be even smaller!

[NightHawkGuy]

Originally Posted by colinhunt

Ran another backup job on Eureka's Two-lane Blacktop. This time I used the following settings:

Multiprocess disabled
DGDecNV enabled
"Use DEINT" unticked
"IVTC 3:2 pulldown sources" unticked

The previously out-of-audio-sync extra feature came out interlaced (as expected) and with audio in-sync with picture.

Thats what I've found as well as reported in the past - IVTC enabled uses pulldown flags in the avc stream created and many players don't handle those flags correctly it seems causing audio out of sync.
My solution is to always disable IVTC and de-interlacer, as you did.
Those cases seem to be only for smaller MPEG2 features titles anyway, that I prefer to not even re-encode to AVC by increasing the setting for MIN_M2TS_SIZE to only allow re-encoding of the larger titles (like the main movie) for a full BD25 build.

[soneca]

I wish most of them were like this, with excellent compressibility.

[colinhunt]

Originally Posted by jdobbs

So the changes were turning off Multiprocessing, Deinterlacing and IVTC?

Yes. I'm now running another job with DEINT on, but multiprocessing and IVTC off.

[Bronxboybob]

Originally Posted by jdobbs

Go into the FFDSHOW video setup and set VC-1 to "wmv9" -- something has overridden your WMP11 as the default. Get rid of any codec packs if you have any installed.

Also update your version of BD-RB... you're two releases behind.

Thanks again. I will try all of your recommendations

[jdobbs]

Originally Posted by colinhunt

Yes. I'm now running another job with DEINT on, but multiprocessing and IVTC off.

I think it may be the setting I'm using with DGDecNV. Multiprocessing and Deinterlacing probably have no effect -- I'd guess it's the IVTC. The DGDecNV "fieldop=2" setting may not be acting exactly as I thought it would.

[NightHawkGuy]

Originally Posted by jdobbs

I think it may be the setting I'm using with DGDecNV. Multiprocessing and Deinterlacing probably have no effect -- I'd guess it's the IVTC. The DGDecNV "fieldop=2" setting may not be acting exactly as I thought it would.

Don't think its related to DGDecNV, just IVTC.
Remember I always got audio sync problems with IVTC enabled encoding from MPEG-2 extra title sources that used pulldown. The encoded AVC output with pulldown flags doesn't appear to work with many players, resulting in audio sync problems in playback. I had that problem in tests recently with either ffdshow directshow or DGDEcNV decoding with IVTC enabled. Have to use IVTC off and avoid soft pulldown flags in AVC encodings. With IVTC off it works great with either decoder in the recent BDR releases.

[NightHawkGuy]

I've found during encoding using DGDecNV its best to avoid starting or running other apps in parallel that might use some of the NVidia GPU's special features, such as video players.
Sometimes they can cause an error and abort the build.
I saw that happen even starting up the GPUz monitor utility program during a build using DGDecNV, though GPUz can be used if started before the build begins and just leave it running in the background to monitor the Nvidia's GPU memory usage and video engine load.
I can do simple internet browsing during the build, but wouldn't risk more than that in parallel when DGDecNV is being used as the decoder, especially in multiprocess mode using more system memory.
I've had no problems with DGDecNV decoder builds, if I follow these recommendations that neuron2 also has posted at his support forum.

[colinhunt]

Hmmmm. The run with "Use DEINT" enabled but IVTC disabled created a file which is flagged progressive (according to MediaInfo) but it plays/looks interlaced on MPC-HC. Audio sync is fine.

MediaInfo:
Scan type : Progressive
Interlacement : PPF
Interlacement : Progressive

Opening output in BD-RB shows this for the extra feature:
VID_00012 MPEG-4 (AVC), 480i, 29.97fps, 1 259,27 MB

Opened the file 00012.m2ts in VLC 2.0 and noticed that when VLC deinterlacing was set to Auto, it would not deinterlace the video because of the progressive flag. Deinterlacing worked fine when forced on. So if stand-alones read the flag, they won't do interlacing for this extra feature. I suppose it's better to leave "Use DEINT" off so the output file is flagged interlaced and leave deinterlacing to players.

[NightHawkGuy]

Originally Posted by colinhunt

I suppose it's better to leave "Use DEINT" off so the output file is flagged interlaced and leave deinterlacing to players.

Yep, thats what I have been using for best results for sometime.
IVTC=off and Deinterlace=off

[jdobbs]

Originally Posted by NightHawkGuy

Don't think its related to DGDecNV, just IVTC.
Remember I always got audio sync problems with IVTC enabled encoding from MPEG-2 extra title sources that used pulldown. The encoded AVC output with pulldown flags doesn't appear to work with many players, resulting in audio sync problems in playback. I had that problem in tests recently with either ffdshow directshow or DGDEcNV decoding with IVTC enabled. Have to use IVTC off and avoid soft pulldown flags in AVC encodings. With IVTC off it works great with either decoder in the recent BDR releases.

I've tested it, repeated it, and fixed it for the next release. It is the field operation I incorrectly set in DGDecNV -- but only when IVTC is set and the source is pulldown (and DGDecNV is selected).

But you are correct that some players don't like the pulldown in AVC. I use MPC a lot -- and while it plays it back AVC with pulldown, there is a slight "jumpiness". But... that is the player's fault not the output. The stream is correctly configured to standard. PowerDVD 11 plays it back perfectly, as does most standalone players. When you turn IVTC off you are essentially creating a hard-telecined output. Using deinterlacing makes the hard-telecined output a little smoother than not doing so.

[Edit] Well... I stand corrected. I did some further testing and am finding issues even when not using DGDecNV as well. I must have made some changes the affected IVTC in an unexpected way, because this used to work. I'm tracing it now and will correct it for the next release.

[evestorm]

First off, thanks for the great work on the software jdobbs. I used DVD-RB often and now use BD Rebuilder for my backups.

I recently ran into an issue when backing up Back to the Future Disc1 from the 3 disc set.

I set BD Rebuilder to the new Movie and Menus option and started the backup. Once done I checked the Blu Ray in Power DVD like always before burning and noticed something odd. When you either press play or select a scene, you get a black screen and then it returns to the main menu. Because I of course do own the originals, I popped them in and sure enough, after you press play or select a scene, a silly prompt asking you if you would like to enable some sort of social sharing pops up. BD Rebuilder (doing exactly what I told it to do) blanked this out but did not enable it to continue to the movie/scene. I am sure I can go manually blank whatever I want and leave that weird thing in, I just wanted to let you know about it in case it is something that can be accounted for in the future as production companies continue for force more and more unwanted things on us in our legally purchased media. Sorry for the long post and thanks again for the fantastic work!

[omegaman7]

It appears that DGDecNV is more intelligent about compression. When I use X264/LAVF, the output is larger(For MKV's). DGDecNV makes them smaller. However it's the other way around when generating BD-25 outputs. I'm not 100% sure on this, but that is the way it appears at the moment.

[colinhunt]

Optimum UK's release of The Secret World of Arrietty is giving BD-RB sizing headaches. With output size set to non-custom BD25, the result is over a gigabyte too large.

Main movie has four audio tracks, DTS HD-MA 5.1 and LPCM 2.0 in both English and Japanese. Disabling English tracks results in correctly sized output, but disabling LPCM tracks or re-encoding them to DD 2.0 leads to oversized output.

Main movie also has Secondary video (storyboards) but no secondary audio.