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Old 26th August 2017, 03:56   #1  |  Link
flambot
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Blu Ray Tools...What \ Where are they?

Hello,

Not sure I posted this in the right place...but here goes??

I'm in the process of getting into some BD (haven't made the move yet).

One of the things that has held me back is the seeming lack of tools to mod the BD structure once it is on the HDD. There are probably a few, but I don't know what they are.

I have a lot of tools for DVD - mainly - DVDRemakePro (Excellent tool), DVDSubEdit, IFOEdit, VOBlanker and a host of others. I know enough to make them do what I need to do - namely...

1. Add new chapters to DVD
2. Jumpover logo crap at the beginning of titles
3. Edit forced Subs
4. Blank \ Remove blocks
5. Most other things that crop up and I can figure it out

The first two are easily achieved using DVDRemakePro, but is there a similar tool for BD? Can you add chapters to the BD format?

What about "Jumpover" things at the beginning of titles (don't know how to jumpover stuff in the middle or end of a title - would like to know)

Forced subtitles I use DVDSubedit and IFOEdit to flag them correctly.

Blank \ remove blocks I use DVDRMP - this to make video segments during or after the credits easy to watch.

Would love to know of a tool like DVDRMP that works on BD.

Thanks for any insight - Regards
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Old 16th September 2017, 22:51   #2  |  Link
flambot
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Gee...over 250 views and not a single comment about the tools that are available. Have I posted wrong or something?
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Old 17th September 2017, 03:22   #3  |  Link
SquallMX
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Editing BDs is way more complex than editing DVDs, but for the most basic stuff you can use BDEdit and MultiAVCHD.
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Old 17th September 2017, 06:31   #4  |  Link
flambot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SquallMX View Post
Editing BDs is way more complex than editing DVDs, but for the most basic stuff you can use BDEdit and MultiAVCHD.
Really appreciate the input. I'll look up those two programs. Thanks.
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Old 17th September 2017, 09:38   #5  |  Link
von Suppé
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Also take a look at tsMuxer, BDSup2Sub, Subtitle Edit, BD3D2MK3D (for 3D bluray processing tools), HD-DVD/Blu-Ray Stream Extractor, BD Rebuilder to name a few.

Edit: BDInfo is important to have IMO.

Last edited by von Suppé; 17th September 2017 at 09:48.
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Old 22nd September 2017, 08:56   #6  |  Link
flambot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by von Suppé View Post
Also take a look at tsMuxer, BDSup2Sub, Subtitle Edit, BD3D2MK3D (for 3D bluray processing tools), HD-DVD/Blu-Ray Stream Extractor, BD Rebuilder to name a few.

Edit: BDInfo is important to have IMO.
Thanks for these suggestions. Still waiting for my first BD's to arrive, then I guess I'll have lots of questions on how to use these tools.
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Old 24th September 2017, 08:18   #7  |  Link
von Suppé
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Quote:
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waiting for my first BD's to arrive...
If you are going to burn BD discs I suggest you take a look at ImgBurn also.
And may I suggest to get one or two BD rewritables for testing purposes. Saved my butt (and $$) often.
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Old 28th September 2017, 06:41   #8  |  Link
flambot
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Originally Posted by von Suppé View Post
If you are going to burn BD discs I suggest you take a look at ImgBurn also.
And may I suggest to get one or two BD rewritables for testing purposes. Saved my butt (and $$) often.
BD-Rewritables would be a good idea. Never been much of a burner. Prefer HDD based stuff. My first step will be to figure out how to add chapters to a BD on the HDD.
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Old 28th September 2017, 08:01   #9  |  Link
von Suppé
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Adding chapters (timecodes) for bluray can easily be done in tsMuxer.
If you are going to rip & store your blurays on harddrive, have you thought about the option to save videos in mkv container?
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Old 29th September 2017, 01:01   #10  |  Link
flambot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by von Suppé View Post
Adding chapters (timecodes) for bluray can easily be done in tsMuxer.
If you are going to rip & store your blurays on harddrive, have you thought about the option to save videos in mkv container?
I'll have to look at that as well. Does txMuxer reencode the video? Don't really want to re-encode anything. I like the idea of a smaller file size (that's the purpose of mkv container isn't it??) but not so keen on all the time it takes.

Got my first BD today and backed-up one disc to HDD. Wow...lots of scary things to learn. I was shocked that a 3 episode disc was 41Gb eek:

Lots to learn, but my first step is how to do chapters (my most used function when tweaking DVD's. Is there a "best use" tool for chapters?
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Old 29th September 2017, 08:12   #11  |  Link
von Suppé
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flambot View Post
Does txMuxer reencode the video?
No, it just muxes the streams you pick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flambot View Post
...a smaller file size (that's the purpose of mkv container isn't it??)
No. First of all, mkv is a mediacontainer (just like avi for instance). It will accept many sorts of audio, video, subtitles, attachements etc. Read the mkv homepage. It is true however, that mkv is very popular for people that do re-encoding audio/video. But there's a lot more you can do with mkv.
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...my first step is how to do chapters
Take a look at chapterEditor.
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Old 29th September 2017, 12:18   #12  |  Link
hubblec4
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Hi flambot

My chapterEditor(v.051) is maybe the right one for you.
It helps you to get easy mkv's from Blurays.
All is untouched if you want, no lossy compression tools!

You will find a Matroska Menu Editor, to make a small menu-mkv which controlls all your episodes. You can watch the entire season with a double-click only.
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Old 1st October 2017, 07:50   #13  |  Link
flambot
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Thanks for the help.

I'm in somewhat of an info overload at present. Lots of things to try and figure and not really sure where to start.

That chapter editor looks promising. Can I assume it only does MKV - not the barebones BD Folder (Not sure what to call the original Blu Ray format).

MKV is something I'm going to look at (after using CBD) that seemed to do a good job of their creation. Seems the MKV format is easier to work with after-the-fact - than seeming a BD Folder. I need to find more time to experiment! I have found that BD Folders written to ISO seem to take longer to start in KodiTV than the same file written as a MKV.

What are the disadvantages of leaving the bly rays in that format compare to re-encoding to MKV?

Does BDEdit create new Chapters in a BD Folder? Looks really scary when open. Actually, looks like working with BD's is going to be tricky. Appreciate the help.

Regards
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Old 1st October 2017, 10:09   #14  |  Link
von Suppé
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flambot View Post
... BD Folders written to ISO seem to take longer to start in KodiTV than the same file written as a MKV.
Not working with KODI but hardware mediaplayers, but I can confirm this behaviour. I guess a player must mount the iso first, before it can read the actual data. This will take some time. Also, one of my mediaplayers has a full BD license, so I think it will have to adjust its settings (mostly restrictions...) and playback protocols when loading an iso or BD folder structure.
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What are the disadvantages of leaving the bly rays in that format compare to re-encoding to MKV?
First of all, going from one container to another is not really re-encoding.
Modern video-encoders like x264 can reduce filesize significantly, with out noticable qualityloss. In a lot of cases you'll also be able to downsize audiostreams without audible loss.
Then mkv is a popular container. It accepts a lot of codecs with their numerous settings, resolutions etc. It gives you playroom. Whereas keeping your format within BD specs, with re-encoding, all media has to meet BD standards. So you'll be limited in what codecs and settings you wanna use.

Should you just remux (not transcode) certain audio- and videostreams, you can choose to stay with BD folder structure (or iso) or go mkv, it's up to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flambot View Post
Does BDEdit create new Chapters in a BD Folder? Looks really scary when open.
I wouldn't know. Be careful. You really need to know what you are doing to use BDEdit. You have to know about BD authoring and what data is stored in several files within the BD structure.
I would not know what I'd be doing, so I leave it alone, for now.

Dive into chapterEditor, I think it can do what you'll need.
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Old 1st October 2017, 21:53   #15  |  Link
flambot
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@von Suppé...thanks for the info. A lot to digest. I used iso for my DVD's on my server because they started so much faster in KodiTV (well..then is was xbmc) than a DVD folder (and their is only one file which I like). Iso can be a pain to tweak - meaning you have to go back to the folder structure to do so.

So...using say CloneBD to put it in a MKV container isn't re-encoding. That's interesting. And...that's called remuxing.

So...it's probably easier to tweak MKV than BD Folder??

BDEdit does show interesting info, but I wouldn't know where to begin - hence the scary aspect. Creating new chapters is the first thing I want to learn. I'll use a test BD folder, but also experiment with MKV. There seems to be a lot of tools for that.

Is there a MKV remake pro tool any where?

One issue I do think about a lot is that my collection runs from an unraid server. Should I loose the redundancy that offers, I would not only have to re-rip all the discs, but also remux to the MKV container - something I don't have to do with DVD in the iso container. So restoring everything (should there ever be a failure on my server) would be a lot less work (time) if the bluray was left in the basic BD format.

Ultimately...at this point anyway...I probably won't get into a lot of BD's. Modern DVD's (upscaled via KodiTV) look really good and take a fraction of the space that a BD does. The show that I'm working with is approx 6-8Gb per episode in BD - whereas a modern DVD show I recently backed up was only 1.3gb per episode. A major difference.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 08:50   #16  |  Link
von Suppé
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I have no experience with CloneBD. I decrypt & rip my BD's with AnyDVD to iso.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flambot View Post
Is there a MKV remake pro tool any where?
mkvtoolnix is a tool I do most of my mkv stuff with. It also has a built-in, easy-to-use chapter editor.

hubblec4's chapterEditor has great features too.

If ripping and decrypting your BD's aren't a problem (it's the first step), to get you started, I would suggest you begin with learning how to use tsMuxer, chapterEditor, mkvtoolnix. Also MediaInfo, an identifier tool, may come in handy. These are tools that will teach you the basic steps.
Try the simple stuff first, like with tsMuxer remuxing a movie-only, or episode-only, to BD folder structure or iso.
With chapterEditor, load a BD or mkv and extract and edit chapters from it.
And with mkvtoolnix, load a bluray or mpls file and make a mkv.

Try to get acquainted with basic workflow, lay-out and your understanding with those tools. It's basic, not so difficult and you'll pick up after a couple of try-outs.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 10:00   #17  |  Link
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Remember MakeMkv than decript DVD/BD and make mkv's without change nothing (or recode some audio tracks).
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Old 2nd October 2017, 16:05   #18  |  Link
hubblec4
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@flambot

Maybe there are disadvantages to remux a Bluray to mkv, but there is a feature in Matroska which I have never found in other containers, called "Ordered Chapters".

When you create an mkv with the full content of an episode/movie(Intro,Review,Credits and so on), you have the abillity to make your own Edition of content what you like to watch only.
My episodes have almost ever 3 (ordered)Editions
1. Full content
2. without the Credits
3. only the episode (without Intro,Rewiew,Credits)

The mkv will stay untouched. Only new chapters have to create and save to the mkv file, so often you like.
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Old 4th October 2017, 21:57   #19  |  Link
flambot
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Thanks a lot for all this info. I haven't had a lot of time lately to experiment, but I'm slowly coming to terms with it.

@ von Suppé - AD is how I got my first BD folder on the HDD. Do you mod your BD's from ISO (or leave them intact?). Or convert them from BD ISO to MKV.

CBD makes it easy to convert to MKV and has a nice batchy thingee that allows you to write individual episodes (from a single BD Folder) into single file output all from one session. I quite liked that. I am using a trial version that adds a watermark to the output when you change container.

I have lots of experimenting to do I can see. "mkvtoolnix " is another tool I'll have to investigate.

Seems there are much more tools for MKV than BD. The tools don't have to be free either. The end result is the ability to do what I need with the minimum of effort.

Yes...I only want movie only (no menus) and I always cut the credits (they take too much space). Episodes take more effort - usually in the form of chapters and jumping over Studio logos at the beginning (For DVD, I leave episodes complete (only mod the IFO) so that I can overwrite them later with the modded version if I have to rebuild.

One of the things that makes me a little wary of some of these tools is that many of them require other software - especially codecs - to work. Don't want to mess up my new machine.

@tebasuna51 - MakeMkv is something I plan to look at, but too many new thingees all at the same time make the head spin. LOL!

@ hubblec4 - That "Order chapters" sounds really interesting. Does your chaptereditor make these or some other tool?

Really appreicate the input. I'm definitely leaning toward MKV container at this point. Most players seem to play it as well. Need to find some time to play Thanks muchly.
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Old 5th October 2017, 19:12   #20  |  Link
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I second MakeMKV, you don't really need anything else. Just put the disc in, fire up the program, select the streams you want to mux, and let er rip. Anything else will require something that can decrypt the discs (AnyDVD, DVDFab etc). MakeMKV is an all-in-one solution.
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