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 Doom9's Forum Formula for correct size in IC
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 28th March 2003, 13:13 #1  |  Link Antonio S. Registered User   Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 354 Formula for correct size in IC I had developed a simple math formula that may help to get the correct size (4.37GB) when using InstantCopy. Formula Data Size = 4350 + X(.625) X = The sum in Mb of all audios removed. "Data Size" is the value that you enter in IC Example Movie1: 3 Titles Movie title: Audio 1- 373MB, Audio 2- 176MB, and Audio 3- 176MB). (Audio 2 and 3 are removed). Calculate Data Size: x = 176 + 176 x = 352 MB Data Size = 4350 + 352(.625) Data Size = 4350 + 220 Data Size = 4570 MB So to get an aproximate value of 4350 MB, you must increase total data size to 4570 MB Notes -I choose base value of 4350, to avoid to fill completely a DVD-R, but a value of 4370 may be taken. -In my test this formula has an accuracy of 94%... Antonio S. Last edited by Antonio S.; 28th March 2003 at 13:19.
 28th March 2003, 16:53 #2  |  Link Fmazzanti Registered User   Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 330 I wonder where this 0.625 comes from... is this an empirical formula or there is some sort of theoretical background behind it?
 28th March 2003, 17:43 #3  |  Link MackemX ..DVD GOD..     Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,838 Antonio S. nice formula and I appreciate your time and effort to tell us this as we would all love 4.37Gb, but what happens when you don't remove audio? unfortunately it still undersizes this is basically the same as Arianos's thread HERE but he did not multiply it by 0.625 personally I think its more to do with the brightness/large areas of the same colour/blackbars within image as shown HERE, but I'm probably wrong I was gonna do a spreadsheet based on the this but I don't think I'll bother as I've now posted on the Pinnacle site HERE and hopefully everyone else will Then maybe Pinnacle will get the hint and stop the crashing with long periods of dark scenes and do something about the sizing issue also The sooner the better
 29th March 2003, 10:17 #4  |  Link darrellw Registered User   Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: uk Posts: 35 am beginning to wonder whether IC is worth all the hassle? been using DVd2One, impressed with the speed on my old? 900 Athlon but keep having audio sync problems on episodes 3 or 4, so time to try IC. only backing up X-files serie for now series 3 disc 1 first bash, set to 4.6G came out at 4.06, will have another bash (5 hours later) set size to max, only another 270MB at 4.87, came out at 4.55G, hmmmm. another 270MB results in a 490MB increase. still no problem, i can simply follow your guide for reducing it to fit, but first can get rid of the extra English audio that IC left in, but no Ifoedit crashes with "error writing file at VTS_01.5VOE stage. no worries will try to shrink one of the episodes, as there are no extras to shrink. picked the first episode as this seemed for some reason to be quite alot larger than the rest (1.6G compared to 900mb or so for the rest).result two new VOB files VTS_01_1.VOB 1,048,574 VTS_01_2.VOB 223,826 this could be where i show my ignorance, but how do i replace the original VOB's with the new ones as they are VTS_01_1.VOB 1,048,574 VTS_01_2.VOB 1,048,574 really struggling to get to grips with DVD structure, have read all the guides ( i think) but they are too basic. is there nothing that is a little, and i mean a little more advanced will have to have a go at the guides for file size prediction but i get the impression that they are still only largely (educated )guesswork cheers darrell
 29th March 2003, 14:04 #6  |  Link darrellw Registered User   Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: uk Posts: 35 sorry, still do not get it new replacement VOB's VTS_01_1.VOB 1,048,574 VTS_01_2.VOB 223,826 tried to paste them into the old folder first one replaces the original VTS_01_1.VOB but the second wants to replace VTS_01_2.VOB which is 1,048,574 which is obviously is not going to work as i will lose 0.75G or so of info what am i doing wrong please cheers MisterX darrell
 29th March 2003, 14:21 #7  |  Link MackemX ..DVD GOD..     Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,838 thats what you do and then you use Ifoupdate to fix the IFO's point the original source to the VTS_01_0.IFO for the two original VOB's then point the newly authored to the IFO for the 2 new VOB's and run Ifoupdate this will update the IFO's and fix all the sectors try to find an ifoupdate guide if you are still not sure how many VTS_01_x.VOB's are there? by the way?
29th March 2003, 23:26   #8  |  Link
jaagee
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Falcon Country
Posts: 28
Re: Formula for correct size in IC

Quote:
 Originally posted by Antonio S. I had developed a simple math formula that may help to get the correct size (4.37GB) when using InstantCopy.
Except for the multiplier, this is the same method I wrote about in a thread about 2 weeks ago. In my thread, I also added back the unwanted audios but I did not use your (.625) multiplier. In every instance, by adding the audios and not using a multiplier, I ranged between 4.2 and 4.3GB. I only went over once, Road To Perdition, and it was probably just the movie because it went WAY OVER

You are definitely on the right track though. Just curious, did you tweak your registry settings in IC? If so, what were your settings? I will compare your settings to mine and try your method of the multiplier and see how close I can get.

Thanks,
jaagee

 30th March 2003, 00:04 #9  |  Link Antonio S. Registered User   Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 354 @jaagee: For your first question: The only change a made to the registry is "the DVD always enable OK button". However I think that increasing the "DVDAnalyzeMaxRel" will help... About the ".625 multiplier", I really get that factor from making various test,with same material, removing one or more audio(s). However it may not be the ultimate value. As MisterX post, also transcoding movies with "blackbars" may affect the final size. Maybe modifing my original formula to add this variant can make more accurate results (MisterX may give more information about this). For example a new formula may be: Data Size = 4350 + X(.625) + Y(Z) Where: X = The sum in Mb of all audios removed. Y = "Original Video Data Size". Z = "Black Bar Bug constant". Maybe MisterX may determine the "Z" value... Antonio S. Last edited by Antonio S.; 30th March 2003 at 00:12.
 30th March 2003, 12:16 #10  |  Link darrellw Registered User   Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: uk Posts: 35 thanks again for getting back to me MisterX but still not working , so ditched the oversized run, and the the rest, need the hard disc space. tried out your destructions on fixing the "phantom" Mb size bug. got the two totals to match with the data size set to 4.31G. should i then oversize it using the F5 key or not? could not see instructions either way so left it at disc size of 4.31 doing it's thing overnight. woke up excited, my first accurate sized DVD using IC, hmmmmmm only 3.97G. is it me or perhaps the instructions need making clearer, am trying again with the slider set to 4.7G. only another 5/6 hours, will see what happens. is IC that much better than DVD2One to be worth all this hassle? don't know as i cannot get a file size to accurately compare the two. now if only i could afford to try out DVd95Copy I am reaonably happy with DVD2ONE it's just that it tends to give me audio sync problems in the 3/4 episode on most discs does anyone know how to use DVD2ONE to transcode the x-files series a single episode at a time, so if there is a problem then i can redo the particular episode cheers folks darrell
 30th March 2003, 12:19 #11  |  Link MackemX ..DVD GOD..     Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,838 @darrellw did you set it to 4.31 and process it? set it to fit 4.37Gb, not 4.31 as you want 4.37Gb add up all the predicted transcoded video that is not set to 100% as this is what will undersize (not audio or 100% titles or anything else) add 7% or 8%(more risk) of that total onto 4.37Gb, the choice of risk is yours. I would the say the brighter the DVD/ the more static images then the less the % so if I had a video total of 3.67Gb, I would add 8% of that to 4.37Gb, which is 0.29Gb or a setting of 4.66Gb to play it safe just set it to 4.64, if you cannot trim a few MB from an extra title and if you record the results you can easily trim/add the few MB's required within a few mins if need be once you realise what I mean you will see how easy it is Imagine if you kept a DVD that only had 1024Mb of video and 3.87Gb of audio and you set the video to 50% to fit 4.37Gb, but oversize it to 4.6Gb using a guess as most people do, it would be well over the actual result will be around 90-92% of 512MB of the predicted video size of 512MB which will result in around 465MB (+-5MB) or undersizing by 0.04-0.05Gb, so a setting of 4.42(+- 0.01Gb) would do it Last edited by MackemX; 30th March 2003 at 12:46.
 31st March 2003, 11:26 #13  |  Link auszeus Registered User   Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 11 MisterX, I do not understand your point. If I choose to remove a 650Mbyte DTS track surely that means that IC uses the extra 650Mbyte for video. That is, on the video title I now slide the slider to the right and increase the video percentage ? Or are you saying that the 650Mbyte is not used by the video and is simply wasted ?
31st March 2003, 12:43   #14  |  Link
MackemX
..DVD GOD..

Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,838
Quote:
 Originally posted by auszeus MisterX, I do not understand your point. If I choose to remove a 650Mbyte DTS track surely that means that IC uses the extra 650Mbyte for video. That is, on the video title I now slide the slider to the right and increase the video percentage ? Or are you saying that the 650Mbyte is not used by the video and is simply wasted ?
If you have the automatic box ticked then all the titles go up by a few %, swallowing that 650MB. Now cos 650MB of predicted video will not be 650MB at the end of processing then you must add a further 6-8% of that 650MB due to IC under sizing, so really you need to add between 690-700MB of video to make up for the 650MB of audio removed

650MB would probably end up being 600-610MB if you just let IC have it's way so 40-50MB would be wasted so thats why you up the slider to compensate

you should remove the audio 1st anyway before you size up to 4.37 and then add 6-8% of the predicted video size cos this is what will under size, ignoring titles still at 100% as they will come out the same size also

the % you add will be your judgement of content of the DVD (I normally use 8%)

1Gb of video add 0.06-0.08 to 4.37 (4.43-4.45)
2Gb of video add 0.12-0.16 to 4.37 (4.49-4.53)
3Gb of video add 0.18-0.24 to 4.37 (4.55-4.61)
4Gb of video add 0.24-0.32 to 4.37 (4.61-4.69)

an average DVD video content is normally 3.7Gb of data and 8% of that is 0.29Gb or a setting of 4.66Gb, so you can see why 4.65ish works for most people

users can work out the bits inbetween but hopefully you can see what I mean now

it's not quantum physics as some people seem to believe, it's just simple mathematics and I cannot put it any simpler than that

hope this helps and quite simply just ignore audio!, it's the amount of video being processed that matters, the more video processed the more it under sizes

what happens to a film of only one soundtrack?, yep, it still undersizes, audio removal has nothing to do with it as it is a constant

rant rant rant

hope this helps

Last edited by MackemX; 31st March 2003 at 12:46.

 3rd April 2003, 11:19 #15  |  Link darrellw Registered User   Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: uk Posts: 35 success finally with x-files series 3 and IC stripped audio using IFOEDIT Used MisterX's guide to finding phantom VOBS (great work keep it up) disc 1 - set slider to 4.7G came out at 4.27, perfectly acceptable to me disc 2 - got a litle more greedy, but not that brave set slider to 4.71, came out at 4,31 still hmmmm great finally sorted this out, but no wait IFOEDIT starting to screw up. re-installed but no difference getting VTS sectors is making my DVD return " illegal Navigation command" error have posted fuller story on Ifoedit forum but any suggestion would be most appreciated cheers again MisterX for your help, your assistance is most appreciated darrell
 3rd April 2003, 23:13 #16  |  Link jfcarbel Programmer   Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 495 darrell - What was your DVDSaveQuality set to for these X-files?
 4th April 2003, 17:16 #17  |  Link darrellw Registered User   Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: uk Posts: 35 jfcarbel DVDSaveQuality was set to 4 x-files PAL format used MisterX guide to hunting down phantom vobs before starting hope this helps darrell
4th April 2003, 17:21   #18  |  Link
MackemX
..DVD GOD..

Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,838
Quote:
 Originally posted by darrellw jfcarbel DVDSaveQuality was set to 4 x-files PAL format used MisterX guide to hunting down phantom vobs before starting hope this helps darrell
so was it missing actually anything?

maybe we should start a list of DVD's that have hidden MB so that user's who have sizing probs can check if that DVD is in the list

I have 3 myself I can think of, and I bet ther's more I've missed before I started checking

users should really check IC is reporting the true size anyway, but I think that's a massive task as people will not do it until they are affected by it

I do it religously now and it takes seconds but saves you the grief later

I just other's would understand why I say this

 4th April 2003, 20:56 #19  |  Link darrellw Registered User   Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: uk Posts: 35 sorry cannot remember whether or not there were any phantom MB's but it is a good idea to keep a record for other users.will keep anote in the future is there a place where we could post this information, along with DVD's that we have successfully transcoded (close to the 4.37G size) or has the newest update sorted this out now if i could just sort out my IFOEDIT problem darrell