LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders - Page 100

SamuriHL · 28th April 2011, 23:37

I don't know what it does about that. I'm under the impression it doesn't set the flags properly afaik. I could be mistaken though. I don't know if I have an MKV on my drive right now that has any forced subs that I can check, and I don't feel like ripping District 9 just to check. (Man the subs in that movie are MESSED UP. When they were working on adding PGS sub support to ffdshow, this particular movie gave them problems to begin with if I remember right.) In any case, I don't remember if it adds default and forced flags to the MKV's or not.

Andy o · 28th April 2011, 23:37

BTW here's an old-ish AVS thread that might be worth reviewing. I'm curious about MikeEby's post.

Andy o · 28th April 2011, 23:39

I have a free blu-ray rental from the store, I can stop by later and pick one up to test. Do you guys have one in mind, or just pick any from the list linked above?

SamuriHL · 28th April 2011, 23:46

Yea, that's what I'm talking about with district 9 and why MakeMKV takes the approach that it does. In a normal, "sane" BD, they have a separate forced sub track. Then there's idiotic movies like district 9 that embed the forced subs in the regular sub track and flag them as forced. MakeMKV scans the sub tracks as it's ripping them (the ONLY way to detect them, btw...can't be done "up front"), and adds the forced subs to a new track if any embedded forced subs are found. Good times yea?

SamuriHL · 28th April 2011, 23:47

Well, Nev and I both have Avatar. I have district 9. I haven't checked the whole list but I probably have a few others from it kicking around, as well. But Avatar and District 9 are covered.

SamuriHL · 29th April 2011, 00:10

Ok, I've discovered somewhat of a problem. MAJOR SIGH. It doesn't work with ffdshow sub rendering. That SUCKS! It sort of does if I back up a bit and go back, but, in general it doesn't work. This is bad simply because I really want to use MC16 and need to use ffdshow for subs as a result. I've been looking at Salt when I found this issue. I don't have time to do any more testing tonight, but, I didn't get a chance to retry District 9 with MPC-HC's sub renderer.

Andy o · 29th April 2011, 00:12

I thought what you described for District 9 was what Nev meant about how subs worked? So, basically, there are whole separate tracks that can be forced by the blu-ray player, and there are individual subtitle lines that can be flagged inside a regular sub track. IIRC BDSup2Sub could identify these lines. So, Avatar does the former ("sane") while D9 does the latter?

SamuriHL · 29th April 2011, 00:17

It is. That's why I tested it with district 9 because I knew it had flagged subs inside the main sub track instead of a separate forced sub track. However, given my recent ffdshow sub renderer discovery, I'm not sure if district 9 is the issue or not. I'm leaning towards not. I'll retest it again when I get a chance. Actually I can do it on my laptop while I'm watching shows so I guess I can get everything updated and give it a try.

joeydrunk · 29th April 2011, 00:19

So the forced subtitles seem to be working on the movie traffic, I tried in mpc-hc. I enable and they turn on and unchecked unable and the forced subtitles turn off. But I can't get the real subtitles to turn on. I tried a couple different combinations with the "enable" and "default" options. I havnt used mpchc enough though to know if the regular subtitles usually work.

SamuriHL · 29th April 2011, 00:25

District 9 doesn't work with MPC-HC's sub renderer, either. At least on my laptop. ARGH! Nev, let me know what you need from me to help make this work. Do you think it's because I'm skipping around to find the forced subs? I mean, obviously it should work skipping chapters, but, could that be an issue?

robpdotcom · 29th April 2011, 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamuriHL

I'm under the impression it doesn't set the flags properly afaik.

Correct, MakeMKV does NOT set flags for forced subs - you must load the file into mmg's header editor to set the forced flag (which only takes a few seconds).

SamuriHL · 29th April 2011, 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by robpdotcom

Correct, MakeMKV does NOT set flags for forced subs - you must load the file into mmg's header editor to set the forced flag (which only takes a few seconds).

Yea, that's what I thought. I remember seeing that issue discussed before. I probably have some MKV's that I need to go fix. Lucky me.

Andy o · 29th April 2011, 00:53

It works!

The blu-ray of Paprika has forced subs (5 subs in the whole track, translations of signs in the movie, from Japanese). The blu-ray has 3 English PGS subs. One is the normal one, with the 5 forced subs inside them. The other one is SDH with no forced subs and the other is the commentary. All this was confirmed with BDSup2Sub as well.

So I ripped it with makeMKV and selected only the two English sub tracks of the movie. I checked also the "(forced only)" option. As Samuri said, this made a whole new track for just the forced subs, and I ended up with 3 English sub tracks.

I played with MPC-HC and its sub renderer. The first Eng track did have the flags preserved, and it worked great. I can see forced only when enabling the option in LAVF Splitter. The second Eng sub track did indeed have only the forced subs, no problem there. The 3rd track is the SDH, which didn't have any forced subs.

Andy o · 29th April 2011, 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by robpdotcom

Correct, MakeMKV does NOT set flags for forced subs - you must load the file into mmg's header editor to set the forced flag (which only takes a few seconds).

Posted before I saw your post. It does seem to be preserving the flags. I tried with 1.6.8, but I haven't seen this specific issue on the release log.

SamuriHL · 29th April 2011, 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy o

Posted before I saw your post. It does seem to be preserving the flags. I tried with 1.6.8, but I haven't seen this specific issue on the release log.

Check it with mkvinfo gui.

joeydrunk · 29th April 2011, 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy o

It works!

The blu-ray of Paprika has forced subs (5 subs in the whole track, translations of signs in the movie, from Japanese). The blu-ray has 3 English PGS subs. One is the normal one, with the 5 forced subs inside them. The other one is SDH with no forced subs and the other is the commentary. All this was confirmed with BDSup2Sub as well.

So I ripped it with makeMKV and selected only the two English sub tracks of the movie. I checked also the "(forced only)" option. As Samuri said, this made a whole new track for just the forced subs, and I ended up with 3 English sub tracks.

I played with MPC-HC and its sub renderer. The first Eng track did have the flags preserved, and it worked great. I can see forced only when enabling the option in LAVF Splitter. The second Eng sub track did indeed have only the forced subs, no problem there. The 3rd track is the SDH, which didn't have any forced subs.

i hope your right. ive done 905 of my mkvs with makemkv

joeydrunk · 29th April 2011, 01:07

thats suppose to be 90%

Andy o · 29th April 2011, 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeydrunk

i hope your right. ive done 905 of my mkvs with makemkv

may depend on the version too, though.

Andy o · 29th April 2011, 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamuriHL

Check it with mkvinfo gui.

What can I look for? It only shows if the tracks themselves have the forced flag, not the individual subs. It's showing me the 3 Eng tracks I referenced above.

I don't see how it could be working the way I described above though, if makeMKV wasn't preserving the flags for the individual subs.

SamuriHL · 29th April 2011, 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy o

What can I look for? It only shows if the tracks themselves have the forced flag, not the individual subs. It's showing me the 3 Eng tracks I referenced above.

I don't see how it could be working the way I described above though, if makeMKV wasn't preserving the flags for the individual subs.

Yea, it very well may be. I honestly don't know.

28th April 2011, 23:37	#1981 \| Link
SamuriHL Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,351	I don't know what it does about that. I'm under the impression it doesn't set the flags properly afaik. I could be mistaken though. I don't know if I have an MKV on my drive right now that has any forced subs that I can check, and I don't feel like ripping District 9 just to check. (Man the subs in that movie are MESSED UP. When they were working on adding PGS sub support to ffdshow, this particular movie gave them problems to begin with if I remember right.) In any case, I don't remember if it adds default and forced flags to the MKV's or not. __________________ HTPC: Windows 11, AMD 5900X, RTX 3080, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG G2 77" OLED

28th April 2011, 23:46	#1984 \| Link
SamuriHL Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,351	Yea, that's what I'm talking about with district 9 and why MakeMKV takes the approach that it does. In a normal, "sane" BD, they have a separate forced sub track. Then there's idiotic movies like district 9 that embed the forced subs in the regular sub track and flag them as forced. MakeMKV scans the sub tracks as it's ripping them (the ONLY way to detect them, btw...can't be done "up front"), and adds the forced subs to a new track if any embedded forced subs are found. Good times yea? __________________ HTPC: Windows 11, AMD 5900X, RTX 3080, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG G2 77" OLED

28th April 2011, 23:47	#1985 \| Link
SamuriHL Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,351	Well, Nev and I both have Avatar. I have district 9. I haven't checked the whole list but I probably have a few others from it kicking around, as well. But Avatar and District 9 are covered. __________________ HTPC: Windows 11, AMD 5900X, RTX 3080, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG G2 77" OLED

29th April 2011, 00:10	#1986 \| Link
SamuriHL Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,351	Ok, I've discovered somewhat of a problem. MAJOR SIGH. It doesn't work with ffdshow sub rendering. That SUCKS! It sort of does if I back up a bit and go back, but, in general it doesn't work. This is bad simply because I really want to use MC16 and need to use ffdshow for subs as a result. I've been looking at Salt when I found this issue. I don't have time to do any more testing tonight, but, I didn't get a chance to retry District 9 with MPC-HC's sub renderer. __________________ HTPC: Windows 11, AMD 5900X, RTX 3080, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG G2 77" OLED

29th April 2011, 00:17	#1988 \| Link
SamuriHL Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,351	It is. That's why I tested it with district 9 because I knew it had flagged subs inside the main sub track instead of a separate forced sub track. However, given my recent ffdshow sub renderer discovery, I'm not sure if district 9 is the issue or not. I'm leaning towards not. I'll retest it again when I get a chance. Actually I can do it on my laptop while I'm watching shows so I guess I can get everything updated and give it a try. __________________ HTPC: Windows 11, AMD 5900X, RTX 3080, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG G2 77" OLED

28th April 2011, 23:37	#1982 \| Link
Andy o Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 962	BTW here's an old-ish AVS thread that might be worth reviewing. I'm curious about MikeEby's post.

28th April 2011, 23:39	#1983 \| Link
Andy o Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 962	I have a free blu-ray rental from the store, I can stop by later and pick one up to test. Do you guys have one in mind, or just pick any from the list linked above?

29th April 2011, 00:12	#1987 \| Link
Andy o Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 962	I thought what you described for District 9 was what Nev meant about how subs worked? So, basically, there are whole separate tracks that can be forced by the blu-ray player, and there are individual subtitle lines that can be flagged inside a regular sub track. IIRC BDSup2Sub could identify these lines. So, Avatar does the former ("sane") while D9 does the latter?

29th April 2011, 00:19	#1989 \| Link
joeydrunk Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 22	So the forced subtitles seem to be working on the movie traffic, I tried in mpc-hc. I enable and they turn on and unchecked unable and the forced subtitles turn off. But I can't get the real subtitles to turn on. I tried a couple different combinations with the "enable" and "default" options. I havnt used mpchc enough though to know if the regular subtitles usually work.

29th April 2011, 00:25	#1990 \| Link
SamuriHL Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,351	District 9 doesn't work with MPC-HC's sub renderer, either. At least on my laptop. ARGH! Nev, let me know what you need from me to help make this work. Do you think it's because I'm skipping around to find the forced subs? I mean, obviously it should work skipping chapters, but, could that be an issue? __________________ HTPC: Windows 11, AMD 5900X, RTX 3080, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG G2 77" OLED

29th April 2011, 00:53	#1993 \| Link
Andy o Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 962	It works! The blu-ray of Paprika has forced subs (5 subs in the whole track, translations of signs in the movie, from Japanese). The blu-ray has 3 English PGS subs. One is the normal one, with the 5 forced subs inside them. The other one is SDH with no forced subs and the other is the commentary. All this was confirmed with BDSup2Sub as well. So I ripped it with makeMKV and selected only the two English sub tracks of the movie. I checked also the "(forced only)" option. As Samuri said, this made a whole new track for just the forced subs, and I ended up with 3 English sub tracks. I played with MPC-HC and its sub renderer. The first Eng track did have the flags preserved, and it worked great. I can see forced only when enabling the option in LAVF Splitter. The second Eng sub track did indeed have only the forced subs, no problem there. The 3rd track is the SDH, which didn't have any forced subs.

29th April 2011, 01:07	#1997 \| Link
joeydrunk Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 22	thats suppose to be 90%