Converting NTSC to PAL. Problem with Inverse Telecine

Pentajet · 21st August 2006, 17:09

I have posted this in the AVISynth forum but I am open to anything (using other programs).

I have this NTSC animation movie that I want to convert to PROGRESSIVE PAL content without having to remove non-identical frames.

The source looks to be PAL telecined (25fps->29.97fps) material with sequences of six frames as follows:

frame 1 = progressive
frame 2 = interlaced
frame 3 = interlaced
frame 4 = interlaced
frame 5 = interlaced
frame 6 = progressive

I applied the command:
Telecide(order=0,post=2,blend=false,vthresh=2,chroma=true,back=1,show=true)

I also tried many variations but none worked. With the above I got the best result that is:

frame 1= progressive
frame 2= progressive
frame 3= (almost) progressive but some chroma is mismatched
frame 4= interlaced
frame 5= progressive
frame 6= progressive and copy of frame 5 as desired (to decimate later)

The problem is obviously frame 3 & 4. Any suggestions?

Here are samples of the DVD:

Raw (re-encoded with VDubMod):
http://www.file.sc/9e2278/sampleraw.avi

My result:
http://www.file.sc/23b734/sampledone.avi

Guest · 21st August 2006, 17:44

It's hard to tell from your poor quality re-encode of the raw source, but it looks like field blending to me. Do a search on 'blended fields' to discover your options for handling this.

Pentajet · 22nd August 2006, 17:07

YES - thanks a lot. That was the problem and now the video is perfect! Actually thanks to your filter fieldkerneldeinterlace. It took me five hours and a headache to find it. (Maybe saying "Hey - I have written a fantastic filter for that that will solve the problem completely" would have been very very much appreciated) but thanks for the advice. Your filter is really astonishing by the way. In months of encodings I have never seen anything restore a PAL-->NTSC back to PAL like that. The result is 99% perfect (There are still a couple of frames about every 300 or so that still look blended but they aren;t noticeable at all and motion is SUPER fluid).

Guest · 22nd August 2006, 17:19

I never heard of "fieldkerneldeinterlace". Tell me more, such as where to find it.

If you are talking about "leakkerneldeint", then please explain how you are using it for returning your video to PAL.

Pentajet · 29th August 2006, 19:22

Sorry for the late reply. I haven't had time to connect. I suppose that you are Donald Graft (since that is how you are signing your posts) so the filter I am using is definitely yours. And yes it's LeakKernelDeinterlace - my apologies.

By the way THANKS AGAIN FOR THE FILTER - it solved 80% of my PAL conversion problems including a 130 episode series that I have been trying to re-encode for months.

I am using it in conjuction with RePal. I know that most will say "but it's repal that's doing the work", But I tried dozens of Bob filters with it and none worked. I am sure that I put the right order each time since I use the method that you suggest in your readmes to check the field order. None worked. The result on the material that I have has always been awful with jerky motion and blended frames everywhere.

With LEAKKERNELDEINTERLACE I get but one frame every 300-400. I don;t know why this happens - maybe the way in which the other Bob filters recunstruct the missing information on the fields doesn;t provide a good enough input for repal or maybe I am missing something else.

But your filter definitely worked the first time I tested it. It reconstructed 30 minutes of PAL movie almost flawlessly with only THREE noticeable frames in the wrong place which is a result I am more than pleased with considering that I couldn't get a SINGLE frame in the right place with all others.

21st August 2006, 17:09	#1 \| Link
Pentajet Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 76	Converting NTSC to PAL. Problem with Inverse Telecine I have posted this in the AVISynth forum but I am open to anything (using other programs). I have this NTSC animation movie that I want to convert to PROGRESSIVE PAL content without having to remove non-identical frames. The source looks to be PAL telecined (25fps->29.97fps) material with sequences of six frames as follows: frame 1 = progressive frame 2 = interlaced frame 3 = interlaced frame 4 = interlaced frame 5 = interlaced frame 6 = progressive I applied the command: Telecide(order=0,post=2,blend=false,vthresh=2,chroma=true,back=1,show=true) I also tried many variations but none worked. With the above I got the best result that is: frame 1= progressive frame 2= progressive frame 3= (almost) progressive but some chroma is mismatched frame 4= interlaced frame 5= progressive frame 6= progressive and copy of frame 5 as desired (to decimate later) The problem is obviously frame 3 & 4. Any suggestions? Here are samples of the DVD: Raw (re-encoded with VDubMod): http://www.file.sc/9e2278/sampleraw.avi My result: http://www.file.sc/23b734/sampledone.avi Last edited by Guest; 21st August 2006 at 17:46. Reason: fix title typos

21st August 2006, 17:44	#2 \| Link
Guest Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 21,901	It's hard to tell from your poor quality re-encode of the raw source, but it looks like field blending to me. Do a search on 'blended fields' to discover your options for handling this. Last edited by Guest; 21st August 2006 at 17:47.

22nd August 2006, 17:07	#3 \| Link
Pentajet Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 76	YES - thanks a lot. That was the problem and now the video is perfect! Actually thanks to your filter fieldkerneldeinterlace. It took me five hours and a headache to find it. (Maybe saying "Hey - I have written a fantastic filter for that that will solve the problem completely" would have been very very much appreciated) but thanks for the advice. Your filter is really astonishing by the way. In months of encodings I have never seen anything restore a PAL-->NTSC back to PAL like that. The result is 99% perfect (There are still a couple of frames about every 300 or so that still look blended but they aren;t noticeable at all and motion is SUPER fluid).

22nd August 2006, 17:19	#4 \| Link
Guest Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 21,901	I never heard of "fieldkerneldeinterlace". Tell me more, such as where to find it. If you are talking about "leakkerneldeint", then please explain how you are using it for returning your video to PAL.

29th August 2006, 19:22	#5 \| Link
Pentajet Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 76	Sorry for the late reply. I haven't had time to connect. I suppose that you are Donald Graft (since that is how you are signing your posts) so the filter I am using is definitely yours. And yes it's LeakKernelDeinterlace - my apologies. By the way THANKS AGAIN FOR THE FILTER - it solved 80% of my PAL conversion problems including a 130 episode series that I have been trying to re-encode for months. I am using it in conjuction with RePal. I know that most will say "but it's repal that's doing the work", But I tried dozens of Bob filters with it and none worked. I am sure that I put the right order each time since I use the method that you suggest in your readmes to check the field order. None worked. The result on the material that I have has always been awful with jerky motion and blended frames everywhere. With LEAKKERNELDEINTERLACE I get but one frame every 300-400. I don;t know why this happens - maybe the way in which the other Bob filters recunstruct the missing information on the fields doesn;t provide a good enough input for repal or maybe I am missing something else. But your filter definitely worked the first time I tested it. It reconstructed 30 minutes of PAL movie almost flawlessly with only THREE noticeable frames in the wrong place which is a result I am more than pleased with considering that I couldn't get a SINGLE frame in the right place with all others.