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21st January 2008, 02:36 | #141 | Link | |
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However, I've gotten the same results despite the container (testing raw AVC, MKV, MP4), and despite the player (ZoomPlayer, MPC HC, or PowerDVD). If a clip shows corruption, it shows corruption in the same way, at the same time, no matter the container or player. I did test the previous clips with an ATI HD2600 and saw similar corruption results. I will have to test these new clips to see if the results are consistent. |
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21st January 2008, 03:11 | #142 | Link |
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Mabye there are differences in the Quality between G92 Chips and their BSP/VP2 Core (would be bad, but i doubt it). Or maybe your problems arise because of Mainboard Chipset problems (so something with the data transfer of the bitstream to the card goes wrong, to slow or gets corrupted on the way to the Core, defective Memory ?, overclock problems?).
Such Problems could pretty well exist i remember the non 100% compatible Via Chipsets to the PCI standard back in the 90s Btw i knew this would happen, more and more people are coming and reporting about Hardware Decoding Problems, but most probably alot of them are guys that have bad non standard complaint bitstreams so suffer from the num_ref_frame problem or level_idc flag problem. To tell most of those that probably all their streams are useless and need to be reencoded (for some generations of Hardware) especialy those that suffer from the num_ref_frame problem is hard A Mod should made a Sticky and send those people into this thread or they gonna swap all around the board about Hardware Decoding Problems. Hardware Decoding Problems analysed so far: Num_ref_frame overusage = Results in a Black Screen (workaround is existing by changeing the num_ref_frame flag but no 100% fix solution most probably reencoding is needed) level_idc flag wrong = Result is a Black Screen aswell as B-frame decoding problems resulting in either stuttering frames or desecending fps like the 20 fps bug (also has todo with Parser/Splitter/Decoder combination) (workaround is existing by changeing the level_idc flag works 100%) Wrong --sar = Result is a Black Screen (also here a workaround is exisiting and can fix the encodes but most probably they will be wrongly displayed then on Hardware Decoders)
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all my compares are riddles so please try to decipher them yourselves :) It is about Time Join the Revolution NOW before it is to Late ! http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168004 Last edited by CruNcher; 21st January 2008 at 03:47. |
21st January 2008, 03:44 | #143 | Link | |
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Could you encode a variety of resolutions, and determine the max usable number of refs for each? e.g. encode 1280x720 ref9, 1264x720 ref9, 1248x720 ref9, ..., until one works |
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21st January 2008, 04:36 | #144 | Link |
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Current Trunk (--bframes 0 --ref 9/10 --level 4.1 --sar 1:1)
1280x720 ref10 <- x264 [warning]: DPB size (13824000) > level limit (12582912) (sporadic block errors, still good watchable) 1280x720 ref9 <- OK --bframes 4 --ref 9 --b-pyramid --level 4.1 --sar 1:1 1280x720 <- OK
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all my compares are riddles so please try to decipher them yourselves :) It is about Time Join the Revolution NOW before it is to Late ! http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168004 Last edited by CruNcher; 21st January 2008 at 05:22. |
21st January 2008, 07:15 | #145 | Link |
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Ugh. Well, I have to apologize. It looks like something is definitely wrong with my Nvidia 8800GT setup. I won't be testing there anymore until I get it figured out.
I had been testing everything on both my 8800GT setup and my ATI HD2600PRO setup, until the box with the ATI card had a meltdown. Now, I've rebuilt that box and did some testing. All the "grimm" clips look good on the HD2600. No block errors, no corruption, just framerate issues that are resolved by changing to L3.1. I retested the experimental patches as well. Each of the three experimental patches, and the DPB patch by itself (i.e., svn-721), all showed good playback with DXVA. No corruption issues. DPB=9 @ 720p is still the max, as DPB=10 black screens. DPB=4 @ 1080p is still the max as well. But it doesn't appear that either B-frames or B-Pyramids present an issue with the DPB patch. Looks like I was leading things in the wrong direction. CruNcher, thanks for checking against my results. I will retest every encode I made since the beginning and see what results I get. Last edited by UsedUser; 21st January 2008 at 07:30. |
21st January 2008, 08:16 | #146 | Link |
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I found another Problem with --sar and Haalis Splitter in combination with Cyberlinks Decoder, it doesn't accept the AR from .MKV files only the Bitstream SAR but when muxed in .MKV it doesn't get the Bitstreams SAR anymore (seems Haalis Splitter can't provide it to the Decoder) and so displays it as 1:1 (Directshow Problem).
Videolan and Mplayer have no problem with this they seem to Parse the Bitstream SAR also when the Bitstream is embeded in .MKV.
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all my compares are riddles so please try to decipher them yourselves :) It is about Time Join the Revolution NOW before it is to Late ! http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168004 Last edited by CruNcher; 21st January 2008 at 08:20. |
21st January 2008, 08:27 | #147 | Link | |
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21st January 2008, 08:35 | #148 | Link |
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Yeah but unfortunately that won't work for my Mini-HD-DVD Project if i wan't to maintain Hardware Compatibility and Small Bitrate Resolutions (1440x1080,1280x1080), but ok the question remains if i ever take the bitstream into .MKV after that, most probably then MP4 or let it stay in EVO and that should work allways without problems Hmm strange with the Overlay Mixer it works but as soon as you go Fullscreen baam 1:1.
Edit: This really gets over strange now with Overlay Mixer even streams playback that showed a Black Screen before, jesus alot in this regards is messed up with Haalis Splitter and Cyberlinks Decoder, ahh ok no real hardware acceleration then Video: YUY2 1920x1088 (16:9) 29.97fps strange some work in Overlay Mixer with Hardware Accelleration some don't a real chaos
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all my compares are riddles so please try to decipher them yourselves :) It is about Time Join the Revolution NOW before it is to Late ! http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168004 Last edited by CruNcher; 21st January 2008 at 15:09. |
21st January 2008, 17:05 | #149 | Link | |
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22nd January 2008, 02:41 | #150 | Link |
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Yes but i would love to have the whole time Hardware Accelleration working, without thinking about either how to encode stuff correctly or about the combinations of Parser/Splitter/Renderer that allow me to achive that task, this is as unfriendly as it can get (and standards are normaly exactly their to prevent such interoperability problems)
The problem in this case with Matroska and Cyberlinks Decoder is that Matroska is no standard and Cyberlink doesn't support it and so the only one that can try to solve this problems is Haali himself. I would really like to use Matroska the whole time i really like it but such stuff really makes me think of this again and not better stay with MP4 and avoid such problems entirely for all Hardware Capapble Decoders @ the moment and in the future. Also the fact that all the new Devices support MP4 nowdays is a big bonus, that's why i love Sonys PSP and the concept of portability 1 Stream just move it and play it (no reencoding), that's how everything should work so you can watch your SD AVC encode on your PC,PS3 and just take it on the go to your PSP without doing anything (thats user friendliness) (and im happy that UMD failed so horribly or we for sure wouldn't have had this possiblity so fast) but ok that's over also now that we have on our PCs no SD anymore but HD so we have to reencode again, but therforce we have a big quality gain also for our portable devices
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all my compares are riddles so please try to decipher them yourselves :) It is about Time Join the Revolution NOW before it is to Late ! http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168004 Last edited by CruNcher; 22nd January 2008 at 02:53. |
22nd January 2008, 11:19 | #151 | Link | |
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Combination mkv->cyberlink is prue horror now |
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22nd January 2008, 13:08 | #152 | Link |
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Finally b-pyramid is working on PSP. However I've noticed one corrupted frame when the thunder hits the tree.
http://www.mediafire.com/?dxdytdmddzk Everything is fine without b-pyramid http://www.mediafire.com/?0mmu111invm
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23rd January 2008, 19:06 | #153 | Link | |
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Drag and Drop into PowerDVD shows the same deacerllerating playback speed problems after 7 seconds so it seems no parser problem @ all. (I would guess level is wrong it looks like the same problem as the continuis 20 fps playback problem just that the fps is constantly droping down over time (maybe when hitting b-frames?). (Or Mp4box is buggy and does something wrong, wouldn't suprise me really :P) gonna check the bitstream. Bitstream alone shows no playback Problems in Hardware Mode. Muxing with Mp4creator and Mp4box with and without sound and gonna check again I:\test>mp4creator -create=logo.h264 -rate=23.976 test.mp4 Error decoding sei message hmmm ok worked anyways but still decreasing the fps, looked @ the bitstream and the only thing i can see is that their are 2 pp following after a sequence of pbpbpbpbpbpb but could be also pure accident that it slowdown @ the same time as those 2 pp appear in the stream, as the bitstream alone has no playback problems inside of PowerDVD with Hardware accelleration @UsedUser could you confirm this Problem with your Nvidia Card and Cyberlinks Decoder in combination with Atak_Snajperas Samples please, i also wrote something allready about this decreasing fps problem when i still had my 7600 GS and i think i found a strange workaround @ that time for it , note the decreasing fps also happens with this stream in any other container.
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all my compares are riddles so please try to decipher them yourselves :) It is about Time Join the Revolution NOW before it is to Late ! http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168004 Last edited by CruNcher; 23rd January 2008 at 21:12. |
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23rd January 2008, 20:54 | #154 | Link | |
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23rd January 2008, 21:19 | #155 | Link | |
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Nope the problem is another and i found a workaround i think allready for this @ the time it had todo with direct_pred mode
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=124945 http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=127712 Quote:
@Atak_Snajpera could you redo this sample useing --direct temporal
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all my compares are riddles so please try to decipher them yourselves :) It is about Time Join the Revolution NOW before it is to Late ! http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168004 Last edited by CruNcher; 23rd January 2008 at 21:26. |
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23rd January 2008, 21:41 | #156 | Link |
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The result is even worse in this clip. At the end you will see nice dancing blocks
http://www.mediafire.com/?a0j0tgqzbid
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23rd January 2008, 22:30 | #157 | Link | |
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btw in Ateme Digital Serie by default is temopral selected, and with ateme i don't have any problems with DXVA |
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23rd January 2008, 22:43 | #158 | Link |
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No no the problem isn't the 20fps bug its much much worse then that, the Framerate is decreasing constantly after about 5 seconds of playback with Cyberlinks Decoder, that's much much worse then if it would just playback constantly @ 20 fps , but only in .MP4 .MKV useing Cyberlinks Decoder over Directshow not with the Bitstream itself in Cyberlinks PowerDVD. But also with Mainconcepts Bitstream parser via Directshow and Cyberlinks Decoder (only allways in Hardware Decoding Mode).
@Atak_Snajpera Yep and it's still decreasing so that isn't the problem (i slowly belive this is either an VBV problem or Cyberlinks Decoder is somehow bugged with this kind of streams when reading them from a container but dunno why this is the case, but it's really the worst case scenario for Hardware Playback via Cyberlinks Decoder and DXVA) Looking @ the stream again i see this 2 pp frames exactly @ the time the problem seems to beginn hmmm (could be also just pure coincidence tough). Could you please post the complete encoding settings and all stuff you used to create this stream (Encoding/Muxing) Also i would really like to know if ATIs UVD Decoder shows the same problems with Cyberlinks Decoder in Hardware Mode with this clip. Could you also please cut a longer version it's hard to see what's happening in Cyberlinks PowerDVD with the MP4 i think it's not the same whats happening in a Directshow Player tough i can see that some Frames go missing, but i can't see the extreme FPS decrease it's going to fast black and i can't be sure that the fps would decrease over the whole time of the playback as it does in a Directshow Player. In MPCHC i'ts very obvious to identify that the FPS is constantly decreasing as playback is very fast slowdowned. With Hardware Decoding Enabled (Cyberlink Decoder,VMR9 Renderless) The FPS is constantly decreasing from 23-24 fps after around 5 secs Hardware Decoding Disabled (Cyberlink Decoder,VMR9 Renderless) Everything is fine I tried it with all Mp4 Splitter (Internal Mp4 Splitter,Mainconcept Mp4 Demultiplexer, Haali, Cyberlink-7 Mpeg-4 Splitter) allways the same result in Hardware Mode
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all my compares are riddles so please try to decipher them yourselves :) It is about Time Join the Revolution NOW before it is to Late ! http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168004 Last edited by CruNcher; 24th January 2008 at 00:26. |
24th January 2008, 01:29 | #159 | Link |
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I was talking about playback on PSP not PC.
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24th January 2008, 01:53 | #160 | Link |
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Yes but this is also Hardware Playback and that problems are visible here means there could be problems visible on other Devices (in wich form they showup is another thing).
If X264 is not full hardware compatible then you will get errors in many forms on many devices and those don't have to be the same problems. So please post your settings and the exact way you created this stream also wich tool you used for muxing, and if possible a longer sample that has some other frames where you could see slowdowns visually , also try to use VBV and see if that fixes your problems on the PSP (im gonna test on my PSP as soon as i have updated it with the latest M33 firm, didn't used it for a long time now) But yeah i suspect that this decreasing FPS problem is more a Cyberlink Decoder in combination with Splitter problem than a X264 hardware problem, but i wan't to know wich settings causeing this decreasing fps behaveiour with Cyberlinks Decoder and certain X264 streams
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all my compares are riddles so please try to decipher them yourselves :) It is about Time Join the Revolution NOW before it is to Late ! http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168004 Last edited by CruNcher; 24th January 2008 at 02:14. |
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