Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 26th January 2018, 16:48   #48681  |  Link
mclingo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 993
Quote:
Originally Posted by j82k View Post
@mclingo:
Download this youtube video so you can play it through madvr or whatever and turn truemotion on.
My C6 can't even interpolate the moving square on the left side without artifacts, It basically breaks apart when it hits the edge, even with dejudder set to 1. Same result when playing it directly to the TV through usb.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVtoxUohG5E

No artifacts?

is this the same one?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ghuz4qpt8v...0test.mp4?dl=0
mclingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2018, 16:55   #48682  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post
@huhn: [...] that TN panel you linked iz 144 Hz, so 144 fps motion should be pretty good,but how's with 24 or 60 fps? The photo is taken with BFi on, so motion is sharp because of BFI, not because it's repsonse time is 1 ms
Well the photo of the OLED that huhn linked to is also taken with BFI. Nothing would prevent OLED panel manufacturers to use BFI at 144 Hz or even 240, except brightness issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
this is for deinterlancing and i have no clue what suppose to happen with it because toggling has no effect last time i check and i clearly know what telecine.
AFAIK, DXVA's ivtc only works in DXVA Native, and maybe also only with EVR.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 1809, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, 6.0 speakers Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2018, 17:07   #48683  |  Link
j82k
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
Yes and in real content I can see the same kind of artifacting which that video produces too.
j82k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2018, 17:13   #48684  |  Link
mclingo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 993
Quote:
Originally Posted by j82k View Post
Yes and in real content I can see the same kind of artifacting which that video produces too.
I've used this to check for judder but I wasnt looking at it very closely for artifacts, i'll have a look when I get home later.
mclingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2018, 17:16   #48685  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by j82k View Post
@mclingo:
Download this youtube video [...] and turn truemotion on.
My C6 can't even interpolate the moving square on the left side without artifacts, It basically breaks apart when it hits the edge, even with dejudder set to 1.
That's a nice one! I tested it just out of curiosity on my 2013 Panasonic plasma:
- IFC (renamed '24p Smooth Film') at Min: the squares are pretty much OK, but distracting artefacts on the bigger circle, smaller circle fine
- at Medium: the artefacts on the bigger circle strangely become less obvious, but now the squares especially the left one start showing distracting artefacts
- at High, which switches the panel to 60 Hz instead of 96 Hz: the squares and the bigger circle now are pretty much free of distracting artefacts which is impressive, however the smaller circle now produces massive ghosting artefacts! Also this level gives an awful soap opera effect to everything so it's useless for me anyway.
Back to IFC off.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 1809, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, 6.0 speakers Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2018, 17:44   #48686  |  Link
feelingblue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by clsid View Post
You need the Intel Media SDK plugin for decoding 3D H.264 MVC video. This plugin will be used by LAV Video decoder.

MadVR handles SBS video as 2D. Your TV should have an option to turn it into 3D.
Tks, problem solved.
Intel Media SDK is necessary to correctly decode 3D video.
Madvr was not the problem, it works perfectly.
feelingblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2018, 18:09   #48687  |  Link
e-t172
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonwc18 View Post
I'm going to answer my own question because I got some very helpful information from the developer of DisplayCal that answers all my questions. That discussion can be found here: DisplayCal Forum

A TLDR version is this. If you want to generate a 3D LUT for displaying 4K Blu-Ray content tonemapped with madvr (pretty much all 4K BDs use 10 bit color, BT.2020 colorspace, and HDR10):

1) Create the 3DLUT for the BT.2020 colorspace and a gamma of your choice. Using DCI-P3 will give incorrect results.

2) It doesn't matter if the TV/projector is unable to display the entirety of BT.2020 (which is going to be true of basically all displays at this time). The profiler will figure out the limits of your display and generate a 3D LUT accordingly. Calman allows you to limit saturation sweeps to DCI-P3, but this is only useful for manual calibration and/or validation.
Careful, this really depends on the rendering intent. If you use some kind of perceptual rendering intent for example, you will generate a 3DLUT that tries to preserve all gradients from the source gamut (here BT.2020) when converting to the destination gamut (which is smaller). In other words it will compress, not clip. In the case of BT.2020, which virtually no content make full use of, you really don't want that because it will waste huge swaths of your destination colorspace leaving room for compressed extreme tones from the source colorspace that will virtually never occur in practice. You need to make sure that you're using absolute or relative intent, which will clip instead of compress the out of gamut colors. (Basically it's the difference between "make sure gradients are preserved, even for out of gamut colors" and "make sure the in-gamut colors are reproduced accurately, even if that means losing out of gamut gradients".)

Fortunately, AFAIK relative colorimetric is the default in most tools (and is the suggested choice in the ArgyllCMS video docs for example), so I believe most people are getting this right.
e-t172 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2018, 18:34   #48688  |  Link
jasonwc18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by e-t172 View Post
You need to make sure that you're using absolute or relative intent, which will clip instead of compress the out of gamut colors. (Basically it's the difference between "make sure gradients are preserved, even for out of gamut colors" and "make sure the in-gamut colors are reproduced accurately, even if that means losing out of gamut gradients".)

Fortunately, AFAIK relative colorimetric is the default in most tools (and is the suggested choice in the ArgyllCMS video docs for example), so I believe most people are getting this right.
Any idea what Calman uses by default for 3D LUT generation, and if it's wrong, whether it's possible to change this setting?
jasonwc18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2018, 18:44   #48689  |  Link
mytbyte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Well the photo of the OLED that huhn linked to is also taken with BFI. Nothing would prevent OLED panel manufacturers to use BFI at 144 Hz or even 240, except brightness issues.
Yes, I somehow missed the link to sony OLED...the difference must be in the implementation of BFI, not response time (OLED is better than TN)...also I am a bit sceptic of the precision of how Rtings take those photos, I've seen them match the camera move with the onscreen moving logo by hand
mytbyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2018, 20:05   #48690  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post
also I am a bit sceptic of the precision of how Rtings take those photos, I've seen them match the camera move with the onscreen moving logo by hand
Wait, seriously, like motorsport photographers do? They should use a fixed high-speed camera and some burst mode.
If that's really the case then that test is of no value whatsoever.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 1809, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, 6.0 speakers Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2018, 20:34   #48691  |  Link
mytbyte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Wait, seriously, like motorsport photographers do? They should use a fixed high-speed camera and some burst mode.
If that's really the case then that test is of no value whatsoever.
See for yourself: https://youtu.be/vNb3X1AM6uI?t=96



Note: there is a way, explained in the video, to calibrate the camera move, probably try several times before they get it right..the camera must move with the moving object because motion blur occurs when eyes track/focus the motion object, if you look at the motion object with your peripheral vision you'll see there is no smeared motion blur, but stepped trails or no blur...

Last edited by mytbyte; 26th January 2018 at 20:41.
mytbyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2018, 20:52   #48692  |  Link
d3rd3vil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 82
Generally what settings are the best for optimizing 4k HDR material regarding quality? Not that it is needed in general ofc
What to select for the sharpest best most brutal result? Super-XBR and SSIM or NGU and Jinc or SSIM or what?
d3rd3vil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2018, 21:09   #48693  |  Link
Megalith
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 111
Is DXVA2 image downscaling supposed to be bad? I am using a 1080p display, and jaggies are especially noticeable when 4K content is downscaled.
Megalith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2018, 23:19   #48694  |  Link
mclingo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 993
Quote:
Originally Posted by j82k View Post
@mclingo:
Download this youtube video so you can play it through madvr or whatever and turn truemotion on.
My C6 can't even interpolate the moving square on the left side without artifacts, It basically breaks apart when it hits the edge, even with dejudder set to 1. Same result when playing it directly to the TV through usb.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVtoxUohG5E

No artifacts?

something odd going on here with my setup, I cant play this smoothly at all never mind the artefacts, something in my chain isnt playing nice with 24hz.

First I played with with just 2160p23 in display modes, then I added 2160p24, no diference, then I tried added 24hz in CRU, no difference, then I removed them and ran it in 60hz, the all look the same, its stuttery as hell. If I play it using MPC HC using standard EVR renderer though it plays smoothly with no artefacts.

Any idea why my MADVR isnt playing 24hz properly?


EDIT - found the problem, its my crappy RX550 it doesnt have enough power to upscale a 720 video to 2160p using NGU sharp medium, its smooth again in 1080p or or 2160p using lanczos instead, I need to upgrade this, very disapointing.

Have to say though, zero artifacts, mine is set on dejudder 3 and deblur 0

Last edited by mclingo; 26th January 2018 at 23:32.
mclingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th January 2018, 00:00   #48695  |  Link
mclingo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 993
any progress on the NVIDIA 3D frame drop / repeat bug anyone?
mclingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th January 2018, 01:14   #48696  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,361
I'm still on vacation so have not been home to mess with 3d. We'll see if I have any time Sunday or not.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10, I9 9900k, RTX 2070 Founder's Edition, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG C8 65" OLED
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th January 2018, 01:20   #48697  |  Link
ashlar42
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
so that leaves the good old eye tracking motion resokution at 300-600p LCD can easily do 2160p.
Easily how? Because "easily" using 6 bit panel is frankly uninteresting from an home theatre point of view.
Also, would you be so kind as to point out the LCD TV offering 2160 lines of motion resolution?
ashlar42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th January 2018, 01:57   #48698  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,059
sony BFI LCDs.
the sony OLED is most likely in the 1080p region for the line testing if not 2160p.

BFI has it's own problem but cinemas use it too.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th January 2018, 02:03   #48699  |  Link
nsnhd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megalith View Post
Is DXVA2 image downscaling supposed to be bad? I am using a 1080p display, and jaggies are especially noticeable when 4K content is downscaled.
Can you link an image of that, what GPU card you're using? I'm using Intel iGPU Hd4600 to downscale 4k on 1080p display with DXVA and haven't noticed any jaggy.
nsnhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th January 2018, 02:26   #48700  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 573
DXVA scaling can be very different depending on the GPU.
On my 1050 Ti, upscaling SD to 1080 with DXVA is much sharper than bilinear, but with much more artefacts than madVR's Lanczos or Jinc (I checked the image 'enhancements' are disabled in NVIDIA control panel to be sure).
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 1809, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, 6.0 speakers Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:04.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.