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Old 5th December 2015, 15:09   #34481  |  Link
Uoppi
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
film is right and the MS you see are for your CPU not GPU. IVTC is done on the CPU. you can ignore the IVTC MS.
But what is the actual difference between deint=Film and deint=Off (or frameRate=n), picture processing-wise (with progressive PAL)? Because I can detect no picture quality difference and both tags result in playback at the correct framerate.

The only thing I can think of is that in this case madVR's IVTC is just detecting cadence and nothing more (?). If that really is the case, I'd much rather use deint=Off because:
a) deint=Film screws up native progressive 30 fps content by displaying it at 24 fps.
b) deint=Film results in ~5 ms of apparently unnecessary performance hit on my already overtaxed Pentium CPU

So, unless I've got the above wrong, there is no pressing need to use deint=Film except with (some) NTSC material for detecting pulldown and cadence?

Last edited by Uoppi; 5th December 2015 at 15:14.
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Old 5th December 2015, 16:35   #34482  |  Link
huhn
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not all pal source have matching fields and. and even for your pentium it is nothing. just ignore the number. if it is lower than the refresh interval than every is totally fine.

this algorithm is kind of totally free.

why should you add deint=film on progressive content?
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Old 5th December 2015, 21:47   #34483  |  Link
Uoppi
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post

why should you add deint=film on progressive content?
Mainly because:
- Using madVR's auto detection on any of its settings, progressive segmented frame videos (from a Canon camcorder) are detected as interlaced and are deinterlaced instead of merging the consecutive fields into progressive frames
- Content I've verified as progressive (going frame by frame) sometimes still gets deinterlaced with madVR's auto detection, regardless of the detection setting

I prefer to tag folders/files manually instead of relying on automatic detection (which I've sometimes found to be unreliable). That's why I'm trying to get my head around the difference between some of the tags.

Like why deint=Off looks exactly the same to me as deint=Film, even when one of them involves "IVTC" according to the OSD and the other one does not (talking only of PAL - with something like 3:2 pulldown they would obviously look different).

I'm paranoid/OCD about getting the picture right (aren't we all here ), so I'd just like to be sure what I'm seeing is actually true. Up until now I thought deint=Off was OK to use because it at least resulted in the correct framerate and looked alright to me. But now I'm as confused as ever.

Last edited by Uoppi; 5th December 2015 at 21:58.
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Old 5th December 2015, 23:34   #34484  |  Link
DragonQ
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Originally Posted by Uoppi View Post
Mainly because:
- Using madVR's auto detection on any of its settings, progressive segmented frame videos (from a Canon camcorder) are detected as interlaced and are deinterlaced instead of merging the consecutive fields into progressive frames
- Content I've verified as progressive (going frame by frame) sometimes still gets deinterlaced with madVR's auto detection, regardless of the detection setting
This shouldn't matter in most cases since, although deinterlacing may be erroneously enabled, your GPU should notice the cadence and apply weave deinterlacing anyway.
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Old 5th December 2015, 23:39   #34485  |  Link
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Hello!

I managed to get a crash report from a crash mpc-hc+madvr that has happened. I thank in advance if someone could explain to me what is the problem.

I uploaded the .txt file to my dropbox account.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0fxakdk93w...eport.txt?dl=0

Another thing, I always send my crash reports to mpc-hc automatically, but the crashes only happen when using mpc-hc with madvr, so I really hope that someone can offer me a helping hand. Thanks!
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Old 6th December 2015, 00:18   #34486  |  Link
Uoppi
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Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
This shouldn't matter in most cases since, although deinterlacing may be erroneously enabled, your GPU should notice the cadence and apply weave deinterlacing anyway.
You mean the refresh rate would be doubled, i.e. each progressive frame presented twice, thus looking practically identical to having deinterlacing off? How would I know if the GPU is indeed doing the right thing (I've got an GTX 960 btw) instead of applying the unnecessary and "bad" form of deinterlacing?

I've developed a semi-neurotic habit of checking the madVR OSD on every playback start to see what's happening (or not), to ensure all is well. Tags I can at least always rely upon, although it does require some double-checking too to verify the tag is correct for the material.

No escape from tweaking, I guess!
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Old 6th December 2015, 11:17   #34487  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Uoppi View Post
You mean the refresh rate would be doubled, i.e. each progressive frame presented twice, thus looking practically identical to having deinterlacing off? How would I know if the GPU is indeed doing the right thing (I've got an GTX 960 btw) instead of applying the unnecessary and "bad" form of deinterlacing?
Frame stepping.
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Old 6th December 2015, 13:49   #34488  |  Link
Uoppi
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Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
Frame stepping.
OK. So if the GPU is detecting everything properly, progressive 25 fps PAL should never be displayed at a 50 Hz refresh rate? Just asking because 50 Hz is what I'm always getting with progressive segmented frames using madVR's automatic interlace detection. The only way to get proper playback at 25 Hz is using tags.

So, summa summarum, from what I've gathered here, it doesn't hurt anything to always use deint=Film for all progressive PAL content stored in an interlaced-flagged container. I'll be using that then instead of deint=Off.
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Old 6th December 2015, 14:14   #34489  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Uoppi View Post
OK. So if the GPU is detecting everything properly, progressive 25 fps PAL should never be displayed at a 50 Hz refresh rate? Just asking because 50 Hz is what I'm always getting with progressive segmented frames using madVR's automatic interlace detection. The only way to get proper playback at 25 Hz is using tags.

So, summa summarum, from what I've gathered here, it doesn't hurt anything to always use deint=Film for all progressive PAL content stored in an interlaced-flagged container. I'll be using that then instead of deint=Off.
Displays rarely have a progressive 25Hz mode, and instead just offer a 50Hz mode, so there is no practical difference here.
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Old 6th December 2015, 14:16   #34490  |  Link
DragonQ
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Originally Posted by Uoppi View Post
OK. So if the GPU is detecting everything properly, progressive 25 fps PAL should never be displayed at a 50 Hz refresh rate? Just asking because 50 Hz is what I'm always getting with progressive segmented frames using madVR's automatic interlace detection. The only way to get proper playback at 25 Hz is using tags.
It will be 50 fps with each frame being shown twice - frame stepping will demonstrate this. Almost no displays will show native 25 Hz anyway so even if you force 25 fps output, your display will be showing each frame at least twice.

Something I hadn't considered is interoperability with MadVR's Smooth Motion though. If, for example, your display was set to 60 Hz and the source was 25 PsF, I am not sure if it'd produce different results with pure 25 fps or doubled-frame 50 fps.
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Last edited by DragonQ; 6th December 2015 at 14:21.
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Old 6th December 2015, 17:06   #34491  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
That's a cosmetical OSD bug. Will be fixed in the next build. You can safely ignore this, it has no meaning.
Code:
madVR v0.89.17

[...]
* fixed: repeated frames were reported although smooth motion FRC was on
I checked thoroughly and no, all it did was reporting actual repeated frames which are just omitted from the OSD now. (But from my current understanding this is to be expected with FRC, if frame rate and display rate are essentially identical.)
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Old 6th December 2015, 22:25   #34492  |  Link
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Can somebody please share his/her madVR configuration with profiles for different types of video for HD5770 and HD5750? I know that the only right guide is my own eyes but I am really my wit's end because of all these luma, chroma etc. I read the Asmodian's guide (thanks for it) but it doesn't tell which options are most important if the video card isn't very powerful.
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Old 6th December 2015, 23:21   #34493  |  Link
Uoppi
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Almost no displays will show native 25 Hz anyway
Oh, I thought almost all current TVs do?

Windows reports both my Samsung TVs from 2008 and 2014 as supporting 25 Hz, but it's not necessarily "true" 25 Hz then? The TVs' info OSD also says 25 Hz and the manual lists 25 Hz as a supported refresh rate.
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Old 6th December 2015, 23:23   #34494  |  Link
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Windows reports both my Samsung TVs from 2008 and 2014 as supporting 25 Hz, but it's not necessarily "true" 25 Hz then? The TVs' info OSD also says 25 Hz and the manual lists 25 Hz as a supported refresh rate.
Thats likely 25Hz interlaced then. At least thats what it is on most other TVs.
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Old 7th December 2015, 01:29   #34495  |  Link
foozoor
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Is there a way to use image doubling and upscaling refinements for 1080p videos on 1080p without creating a custom resolution inside graphic card panel?

If you don't know what I mean, there is a french tutorial about custom resolution:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-1...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 7th December 2015, 02:32   #34496  |  Link
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Originally Posted by foozoor View Post
Is there a way to use image doubling and upscaling refinements for 1080p videos on 1080p without creating a custom resolution inside graphic card panel?

If you don't know what I mean, there is a french tutorial about custom resolution:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-1...ew?usp=sharing
Why would you want image doubling when watching native 1080p on 1080p?!?

To use upscaling refinements when not upscaling use "image enchancements" instead.
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Old 7th December 2015, 07:10   #34497  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by foozoor View Post
Is there a way to use image doubling and upscaling refinements for 1080p videos on 1080p without creating a custom resolution inside graphic card panel?

If you don't know what I mean, there is a french tutorial about custom resolution:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-1...ew?usp=sharing
.

You would never want to downscale and then upscale an image if that is what you are talking about.

Image enhancements are the most you could do if you would like to alter the image.
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Old 7th December 2015, 07:45   #34498  |  Link
leeperry
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Is there a way to use image doubling and upscaling refinements for 1080p videos on 1080p
Zoom in one notch, madshi said he might consider SuperSampling at some point.
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Old 7th December 2015, 08:40   #34499  |  Link
ace960
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FYI, regarding the problem with playback of the next file in folder, last time mentioned here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...16#post1746816 - I moved from Windows 7 64-bit to Windows 10 64-bit and installed mpc-hc 1.7.10 (stable) and madvr 0.89.17 (both 64-bit). The problem is not present (all the same hardware). I am going to move to mpc-hc+madvr+reclock (so all 32-bit) so I will check it there too.

==
edit: Playback of next file is working ok on set windows 10 64-bit, mpc-hc 1.7.10 32-bit, madvr 0.89.17, reclock 1.8.8.5 32-bit. It is the same chain of software as before so either windows 10 helped or windows 7 re-installation would do it too.

Last edited by ace960; 12th December 2015 at 15:07.
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Old 7th December 2015, 08:46   #34500  |  Link
foozoor
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Why would you want image doubling when watching native 1080p on 1080p?!?

To use upscaling refinements when not upscaling use "image enchancements" instead.
Image enhancement is not enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
You would never want to downscale and then upscale an image if that is what you are talking about.

Image enhancements are the most you could do if you would like to alter the image.
The interest is to do "downsampling" without custom resolution or avisynth.
I am sure madshi already tried to implement this and I wanted to hear what he thinks about it.
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