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Old 28th March 2015, 20:59   #13161  |  Link
sneaker_ger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubblec4 View Post
is a support for DTS Express planed?
dcadec author said:
Quote:
might be eventually supported, although I'm not very interested in implementing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rapscallion View Post
I normally "extract" DTS HD 7.x tracks from the *.m2ts stream. Is that the same thing as "decoding"?
If the data is copied but stays in dts-hd format it is not decoding, only extracting. In that case this change does not affect you.
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Old 28th March 2015, 21:01   #13162  |  Link
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Thank you, that's what I was hoping.
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Old 28th March 2015, 22:23   #13163  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I'd suggest that you decode to WAV and then compare what the difference is, with both a file comparison tool and an audio WAV tool. Are some bytes different? Or is there's some sort of audio delay in one track? Or what...
To start with I did a bitcomparison using foobars tool for just that:

Quote:
Originally Posted by foobar bitcomparison
Differences found in compared tracks.
Zero offset detected.

Comparing:
"L:\The.Hunger.Games.Catching.Fire.FLAC.for.comparison.eac3to.3.28.flac"
"L:\The.Hunger.Games.Catching.Fire.FLAC.for.comparison.eac3to.3.29.flac"
Compared 424063871 samples.
Differences found: 1193 values, starting at 6:56.707458, peak: 0.0000610 at 6:56.707583, 8ch
Detected offset as 0 samples.
As you can see both tracks contain the exact same amount of samples but the diffrences begin at 6:56 wich also happens to the be the same time as the first audio-overlap reported by eac3to.
Same thing applies on other seamless branching discs, tried with Divergent as well and it too had diffrencies in the decoded audiotrack between 3.28 and 3.29.

Audio-overlaps reported by eac3to:
[a02] Audio overlaps for 3ms at playtime 0:06:57. <WARNING>
[a02] Audio overlaps for 7ms at playtime 1:33:51. <WARNING>
[a02] Audio overlaps for 10ms at playtime 1:38:54. <WARNING>
[a02] Audio overlaps for 8ms at playtime 1:40:26. <WARNING>
[a02] Audio overlaps for 10ms at playtime 1:40:49. <WARNING>
[a02] Audio overlaps for 6ms at playtime 1:55:50. <WARNING>
[a02] Audio overlaps for 13ms at playtime 1:57:32. <WARNING>

I also decoded the track to wavs and used foobar to compare each channel individually and the conclusion is that the diffrences is found in all channels.

I was sort of going through my old flac files (7.1) to hash out wich ones were decoded improperly by Arcsoft when I stumbled across this, making it hard to compare old tracks vs new.

windiff first diffrences of centerchannel:
http://someimage.com/aJR2FEb

Last edited by Nebudchanezzer; 29th March 2015 at 08:58.
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Old 29th March 2015, 17:07   #13164  |  Link
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Thank you madshi and Nebudchanezzer for your explainations.

One test I did:

on the TRON Legacy DTS-HD MA 7.1 track:

BL, BR, C, LFE, SL, SR channels between arcsoft v1.1.0.0, v1.1.0.8, and dcadec are bit-identical, BUT L and R channel are not !

(they are bit-identical between arcsoft v1.1.0.0 and v1.1.0.8 but not with dcadec).

I know this DTS-HD MA track was known to have issues, that is why I tested it.

Here is a sample if you want: https://www.sendspace.com/file/0gha9a

and as Nebudchanezzer did, a picture showing some differences between the two L channels from arcsoft v1.1.0.8 and dcadec for example: http://someimage.com/NUzaDn3

Basically, in the L and R files extracted with dcadec, the differences with L and R extracted from Arcsoft are some values replaces by 00


Can we know if one of the decoders extracted the L and R channels right, and which one ?
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Old 29th March 2015, 17:36   #13165  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
You often wrote "lossely". What do you mean with that? I think you rather meant "losslessly"? Or did you mean "lossy" which would be the opposite of "losslessly"?

Would you mind providing the test files you were using for these tests? They would be useful for me, and probably also for the dcadec developer.
- Of course "losslessly", a typo and copy/paste repeat.

- Here is the full test files DTS-MA: https://www.sendspace.com/file/pd2o0f
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Last edited by tebasuna51; 21st October 2015 at 11:04. Reason: new link
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Old 29th March 2015, 18:01   #13166  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libeluratio View Post
BL, BR, C, LFE, SL, SR channels between arcsoft v1.1.0.0, v1.1.0.8, and dcadec are bit-identical, BUT L and R channel are not !

(they are bit-identical between arcsoft v1.1.0.0 and v1.1.0.8 but not with dcadec).

Here is a sample if you want: https://www.sendspace.com/file/0gha9a
I can't reproduce the problem with your sample.
Output from ArcSoft v1.1.0.0 and DcaDec are bit-identical.

EDIT: Sorry, you are right, I forget use eac3to 3.28
I confirm the differences.
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Last edited by tebasuna51; 29th March 2015 at 20:01.
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Old 29th March 2015, 18:13   #13167  |  Link
Libeluratio
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Quote:
I can't reproduce the problem with your sample.
Output from ArcSoft v1.1.0.0 and DcaDec are bit-identical.
I don't understand why.

Here is what I get with that sample:

From Arcosft v1.1.0.0:
channel L MD5: d063bd2fa3fc061c53e355e95d0d13ba
channel R MD5: e5ddeb27e0d35932a9298f3802d50f44


From DcaDec
channel L MD5: fe53588e9dbe05b3b58bcdc820daa5ff
channel R MD5: e078126224c5c465b9ee2dff349935a3

And if I compare them with tools like VBinDiff as on the picture attached to my previous post, I see differences a well. What tool are you using to determine the bit-identicalness ?

(Also, I use eac3to v3.28 to extract with arcsoft and eac3to v3.29 to extract with DcaDec as I didn't find a switch like "-arcsoft" to force the use of arcsoft on V3.29 on 7.1 tracks)
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Old 29th March 2015, 18:21   #13168  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
I can't reproduce the problem with your sample.
Output from ArcSoft v1.1.0.0 and DcaDec are bit-identical.
I could, using eac3to 3.28 and arcsoft 1.1.0.0 vs 3.29 and dcadec

However there was no differences found when using 3.29 for both dcadec and Arcsoft.

Could be interesting to try with the sonic decoder as well.

EDIT: Yes the "-arcsoft" switch does not work on 3.29.

EDIT2: Tried with sonic aswell and then compared the left channel and none of the 3 decoders produced the same result....

Last edited by Nebudchanezzer; 29th March 2015 at 18:31.
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Old 29th March 2015, 18:33   #13169  |  Link
Libeluratio
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Quote:
EDIT: Yes the "-arcsoft" switch does not work on 3.29.
So basically, you tested two times with DcaDec, thinking one time was with arcsoft, right ?

But then, using 3.28 you where able to use arcsoft and to find same results as me ? I can't try sonic decoder unfortunately
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Old 29th March 2015, 18:55   #13170  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebudchanezzer View Post
EDIT2: Tried with sonic aswell and then compared the left channel and none of the 3 decoders produced the same result....
Doesn't Sonic just decode 5.1 while dropping the remaining channels?
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Old 29th March 2015, 19:13   #13171  |  Link
Nebudchanezzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libeluratio View Post
So basically, you tested two times with DcaDec, thinking one time was with arcsoft, right ?

But then, using 3.28 you where able to use arcsoft and to find same results as me ? I can't try sonic decoder unfortunately
Yes on both questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
Doesn't Sonic just decode 5.1 while dropping the remaining channels?
It does, but since Libeluratio already had tested with Arcsoft and dcadec and found that the difference that where found was only in left and right channels, so Sonic should in this case be sufficient to se if I could come up with a result that either matched the Arcsoft or dcadec (only tested Left channel) but it produced a third result.........

So it would be interesting if someone could test with MakeMKV and see what they come up with there.

Last edited by Nebudchanezzer; 29th March 2015 at 19:25.
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Old 29th March 2015, 20:05   #13172  |  Link
tebasuna51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libeluratio View Post
So basically, you tested two times with DcaDec, thinking one time was with arcsoft, right ?

But then, using 3.28 you where able to use arcsoft and to find same results as me ?
Yep, before I use 3.29, with 3.28 I have the same results.

EDIT:
MakeMkv: bit-identical to ArcSoft (same dstdecoderdll.dll)

BTW, the differences between ArcSoft and DcaDec aren't audibles (-108 dB)
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Last edited by tebasuna51; 29th March 2015 at 20:15.
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Old 29th March 2015, 21:35   #13173  |  Link
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@madshi

It's great the external dependency for DTS-HD decoding is gone, if you also want to remove the Haali muxer dependency at one time maybe this project could be helpful:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/yamka
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Old 29th March 2015, 21:51   #13174  |  Link
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that poject sounds great. i hope works ok with wine (linux) through eac3to (if it can be implement)
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Old 29th March 2015, 22:04   #13175  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stax76 View Post
@madshi

It's great the external dependency for DTS-HD decoding is gone, if you also want to remove the Haali muxer dependency at one time maybe this project could be helpful:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/yamka
Excellent request.
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Old 30th March 2015, 10:16   #13176  |  Link
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why this one specifically ? The matroska muxer from FFmpeg should be fine...
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Old 30th March 2015, 10:55   #13177  |  Link
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I don't know either but remember neuron2 was very disappointed from ffmpeg libs and switched to NVIDIA because of it.
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Old 30th March 2015, 12:26   #13178  |  Link
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Originally Posted by stax76 View Post
I don't know either but remember neuron2 was very disappointed from ffmpeg libs and switched to NVIDIA because of it.
I didn't expect a long-time developer like you to make assumption like this.
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Old 30th March 2015, 13:25   #13179  |  Link
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he said this:

Quote:
Stopping DGAVCDec has more to do with the serious deficiencies of libavcodec, such as its dropping of good frames (a showstopper for accurate random access), its poor performance, its lack of a native Windows build, and its lack of support
problems were not only technical, I don't have anything more to say here other then that I have very good experience with both ffmpeg and DGDecNV, because of StaxRip I have to focus on free and portable tools though.
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Old 30th March 2015, 13:30   #13180  |  Link
Kurtnoise
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those comments are depreciated...this is not true nowadays.
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