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Old 16th March 2019, 21:51   #55361  |  Link
tp4tissue
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@cybscott

Does it show banding even at rgb 444, 12bit @ 23/24 hz ?

Sometimes it's the sharpening algorithm which screw up 4:2:2 conversion, leading to (banding), but it's not actually banding, it's just bad sharpening.
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Old 16th March 2019, 22:24   #55362  |  Link
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Thanks @tp4tissue and @el Filou. Looks like I have some testing to do! :-)
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Old 17th March 2019, 00:20   #55363  |  Link
cyberscott
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
@cybscott

Does it show banding even at rgb 444, 12bit @ 23/24 hz ?

Sometimes it's the sharpening algorithm which screw up 4:2:2 conversion, leading to (banding), but it's not actually banding, it's just bad sharpening.
For my HTPC set-up, I exclusively use RGB Full, 444 @ 4k. The C6 HDMI input is set to "PC" I have madVR set to use "switch to matching display mode" for 2160p23, 2160p29, 2160p50, and 2160p59. My current video card is a RTX 2080 TI.
Some of the videos I watch have banding already in the source and some with little to no banding in the source. If I look at a scene that has little to no banding, running the Nvidia control panel at 12 bit with the appropriate display mode, it does NOT add any additional banding or video noise that was already part of the source.
I don't typically use any additional sharpening algorithms beyond what is built into NGU-AA, which I use exclusively for my content.
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Old 17th March 2019, 00:50   #55364  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Manni View Post
With madVR, especially if you use 3D LUTs, it's usually better to select a DCI-P3 calibration as it tends to be closer to the actual capability of the display and madVR can simply discard the BT2020 container and deliver P3 which is used to grade the majority of current content, even if it's delivered within a BT2020 container. But with a consumer source you don't have the choice, they either output rec-709 or BT2020 so you have to select one or the other if you want to track the correct saturations.
I guess you mean select a DCI-P3 calibration on the screen if it happens to have one, or create it, because otherwise sending DCI-P3 is wrong.
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Old 17th March 2019, 01:30   #55365  |  Link
Manni
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I guess you mean select a DCI-P3 calibration on the screen if it happens to have one, or create it, because otherwise sending DCI-P3 is wrong.
Re-read what I wrote, and that is clearly what I said in the context of my post. Remember we were discussing display modes. I also mentioned the BT2020 container, but maybe that's too technical
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Old 17th March 2019, 01:56   #55366  |  Link
j82k
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I suggest everyone running their LG Oleds at 12-bit or in PC-mode to check out Rtings 16-bit gradient test pattern played in madVR.

https://www.rtings.com/images/test-m...ent-16-bit.tif

My LG C8 shows noticeable banding, especially visible in the darker green gradient when using either 12-bit or 8/12-bit PC-mode. In 8-bit, non-pc mode it looks fine.
It was the same on my C6 so I don't really understand if something is wrong with my setup or if other people just don't notice the banding.

By the way PC-mode also forces 3:2 pulldown even when outputting 23.976 Hz.
So you get 4:4:4 chroma and lower input lag but you'll also get color banding and forced 3:2 pulldown.
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Old 17th March 2019, 02:46   #55367  |  Link
SamuriHL
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Yup, that's well known for the C8, unfortunately.
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Old 17th March 2019, 08:47   #55368  |  Link
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So I spent the afternoon trying to get my JVC x7500 working without dropping/repeating frames and I think I've worked it out. The JVC is very picky about what signal it will accept and all the ones offered by madVR outside the normal ones did not work. So I started with the EDID / CTA profile (but it would have a drop/add about 1 per hour) and tweaked that a bit. While madVR's config GUI says this setting will last 7.79 hours, I can confirm it worked perfectly for just under 2 hours. Interestly, is that madVR kept updating the reported display calculation from 23.9758 @ 1 min, to 23.97608 but the end of the movie as well as the expect drop.repeat frames.

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Old 17th March 2019, 09:25   #55369  |  Link
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@jmone
Can you please tell us what you did to tweak your settings.

I'm in a similar situation and would very much appreciate some guidance.
I have read the tutorial found here:
http://madvr.com/crt/CustomResTutorial.html

Is it something similar you did?



Best regards
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Old 17th March 2019, 13:01   #55370  |  Link
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@arcspin, yes that is the correct tut but I then manually changed the values as per the 1st pic (just type them in then press "test mode" to see if they work for you).
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Old 17th March 2019, 13:18   #55371  |  Link
hannes69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmone View Post
While madVR's config GUI says this setting will last 7.79 hours, I can confirm it worked perfectly for just under 2 hours. Interestly, is that madVR kept updating the reported display calculation from 23.9758 @ 1 min, to 23.97608 but the end of the movie as well as the expect drop.repeat frames.
Normal behaviour. The longer you measure physical quantities, the more accurate gets the measurement. This is the case when the value is a constant one in reality.
Here the values (frequencies) arenīt constant, they are e.g. temperature dependant. So when watching a movie and heating up your computer case these values will drift to a certain degree.
So your custom resolution is more or less perfect now (as perfect as you can tune it) when drifting between a couple of hours and some days drop/repeat time.
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Old 17th March 2019, 13:45   #55372  |  Link
RXP
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Originally Posted by cyberscott View Post
I own a LG C6 and I've noticed no additional banding or issues with 12 bit enabled in the Nvidia control panel with madVR. Of course, all equipment has variations so best thing to do is a "stare and compare" with a paused video or better yet a .pgn screen capture with 12 bit on and off.
Even so, madVR's 8 bit processing is excellent so even with 12 bit not enable, you'd be hard pressed to see a difference, I'd think.

Thanks - I'll keep it at 8 bit so when I have my JVC x9000 on it'll work with that too.
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Old 17th March 2019, 16:45   #55373  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j82k View Post
I suggest everyone running their LG Oleds at 12-bit or in PC-mode to check out Rtings 16-bit gradient test pattern played in madVR.

https://www.rtings.com/images/test-m...ent-16-bit.tif


By the way PC-mode also forces 3:2 pulldown even when outputting 23.976 Hz.
Are we sure that this test pattern is Valid and that if it shows banding, it means our 10bit HDR remuxes would suffer the same ?

Are you talking about PC-mode on the LG, or pc-mode in NvidiaCP (hdmi intent) ?

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Old 17th March 2019, 17:36   #55374  |  Link
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I'm of course talking about PC-Input mode on the LG Oled, as that is the only way to get 4:4:4 chroma.

I also notice the banding on HDR gradient test pattern when using pc-mode or 12-bit so it's not a pattern issue.

I'm not trying to prove anything here, use whatever you like. I was just a bit baffled that there are quite a few people using such a subpar setup.
4:4:4 chroma is nice but not at the cost of increased banding and 3:2 pulldown judder...
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Old 17th March 2019, 18:06   #55375  |  Link
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I personally agree with you. I shut off PC mode because of the banding issues. I haven't looked back since.
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Old 17th March 2019, 18:42   #55376  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j82k View Post
I was just a bit baffled that there are quite a few people using such a subpar setup.
4:4:4 chroma is nice but not at the cost of increased banding and 3:2 pulldown judder...
Out of curiosity, do those issues also happen if using YCbCr 4:4:4 as input, or just with RGB?
I'm disappointed that UHD TVs that are supposed to be high end can't properly process 4:4:4 @ 4K without suffering those kind of quirks. This shows they have not yet reached the same maturity as the late high end 1080p displays (maybe in the 2019 models it will be fixed?).
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Old 17th March 2019, 18:51   #55377  |  Link
j82k
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PC input mode has always been somehow fu*ked up on LG Oleds. Some time ago I pretty much tried all the color/bit-depth combinations in pc-mode and while some were better than others, all of them produced worse gradients than the standard hdmi mode, especially in darker colors. Output was set to 24Hz, so surely this can't be a HDMI bandwidth issue.
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Old 17th March 2019, 20:10   #55378  |  Link
SamuriHL
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It's very likely caused by their video processor (the a9 or whatever it's called). I have my doubts about the 2019 models fixing 12 bit banding issues or banding issues with PC mode. But we'll know in a few weeks when the first models are released I guess. I'm certainly not upgrading again any time soon.
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Old 17th March 2019, 20:52   #55379  |  Link
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Originally Posted by j82k View Post
4:4:4 chroma is nice but not at the cost of increased banding and 3:2 pulldown judder...
I notice this as well, in PC mode. I need to use smooth motion at 60 Hz instead of 24 Hz.

However, I do like smooth motion more than 4:2:2 chroma. 4:2:2 chroma bothers me really a lot.

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I personally agree with you. I shut off PC mode because of the banding issues. I haven't looked back since.
I notice PC mode causes banding issues for HDR on my C7 but not for SDR. Does SDR seems to have more banding in PC mode for you?

Also the input lag in non-PC mode is way too high for me, I need to start worrying about adding an audio delay, the mouse feels laggy, etc.
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Old 17th March 2019, 21:03   #55380  |  Link
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I didn't really test a lot of SDR content so I'm not really sure. I noticed it in HDR and ended up having to turn it off. I don't have the input lag issues you're seeing, though. But I have almost all processing turned off.
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