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Old 31st May 2018, 18:00   #51101  |  Link
veggav
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
The calibration setting only applies to SDR content like 1080p Blu-ray. Yes, madVR will upconvert a BT.709 source to DCI-P3 or BT.2020 (which is the recommended setting). I'm not sure you will get better colors, but you will get different colors. It depends on whether you like this effect or not.

The gamma setting is only in effect when enable gamma processing is selected. It is generally advised to set the gamma at the display level rather than the media player.
Thanks for the information.

About gamma there's no option to change it to disable on MadVR.
Only pure power curve and bt709.
At the tab color & gamma I have enable gamma processing unchecked.
Still I can see some difference changing pure power curve from 2.2 to 2.4 while watching a movie.
I guess if you set calibration to this diplay is already calibrated you need to set gamma.

The only other option I see is disable GPU gamma ramps, that is unchecked here. Is this what you are reffering?
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Old 31st May 2018, 18:54   #51102  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by arcspin View Post
Do you have an idea why I cant get the green and blacks/whites to work in 12 bits?
No idea. All is fine here with 385.28 in 12bits, but I do use RGB Full > MadVR 16-235 > HDMI Standard on the JVC. I calibrate the JVC with Calman using MadTPG as a pattern source (best as the patterns come from the source I'll be using) and it only works with video levels, not with enhanced levels.

The only other significant difference I can think of is that I use MadVR's refresh rate custom modes, not nVidia's or CRU. I use the EDID/CTA option and it gives me 50-60mn between a frame drop, which is not perfect but good enough for me.

At the moment, there is nothing to lose using 8bits though, so I'd just set the GPU to 8bits, MadVR to 8bits dithering and enjoy, as MadVR doesn't support 10bits in Windowed mode anymore, and Exclusive is not usable with the JVCs due to the time to do the HDMI resync everytime you use the player's interface.
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Last edited by Manni; 31st May 2018 at 19:03.
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Old 31st May 2018, 20:18   #51103  |  Link
x7007
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For you guys every Windows restart the Dynamic Output Range revert back to FULL ? even when it was Limited before windows restart with 397.93 Also the Digital Audio always change to LG TV instead Turn off audio... 2 annoying bugs.
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Old 31st May 2018, 20:35   #51104  |  Link
arcspin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
No idea. All is fine here with 385.28 in 12bits, but I do use RGB Full > MadVR 16-235 > HDMI Standard on the JVC. I calibrate the JVC with Calman using MadTPG as a pattern source (best as the patterns come from the source I'll be using) and it only works with video levels, not with enhanced levels.

The only other significant difference I can think of is that I use MadVR's refresh rate custom modes, not nVidia's or CRU. I use the EDID/CTA option and it gives me 50-60mn between a frame drop, which is not perfect but good enough for me.

At the moment, there is nothing to lose using 8bits though, so I'd just set the GPU to 8bits, MadVR to 8bits dithering and enjoy, as MadVR doesn't support 10bits in Windowed mode anymore, and Exclusive is not usable with the JVCs due to the time to do the HDMI resync everytime you use the player's interface.
Ok, thanx for answering back.
Yup, I'm all good in 8 bits, it just annoys me a little bit not to know the cause.

I will test the MadVR refresh rate and see if that might do some good.
I got some great results with NVIDIAS custom refresh rates and only have 2 dropped frames in a 2h43m 1080p movie.


Question:
I quite don't understand where to set MadVR to 8bits dithering. The only place I can find to set bitdepth in MadVR is in devices (my JVC), properties and "the native display bitdepth is:"
What is improved between setting it to "8 bit" or "10 bit or higher", if GPU is set to 8 bit?

Last edited by arcspin; 31st May 2018 at 20:55.
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Old 31st May 2018, 21:08   #51105  |  Link
Asmodian
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It is much better to set madVR to 8 bit with the GPU set to 8 bit, madVR would dither to 10 bit and then the GPU would dither to 8 bit. This is two dithering steps instead of one and madVR's dithering is better quality than the GPU's.

There is a separate settings page for dithering options. Never disable dithering for any reason (except testing).
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Old 31st May 2018, 22:17   #51106  |  Link
Polopretress
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
But thats perfectly fine. The goal is to not have any frame drops or repeats, not to hit some special magical number. Its perfectly expected to require a slightly different refresh rate to compensate for the clock deviation.

The perfect refresh rate would be where the display refresh rate multiplied by the clock deviation would be 23.97602 (without software tricks enabled), so for example if you have a small clock deviation of 0.003, you would want a refresh rate of 23.9767 instead (because 23.9760 + 0.003% = 23.9767)

And as others have said, in PCM mode PotPlayer just "cheats" by modifying the audio to perfectly match the video clock, ie. like ReClock. You could get it to match any refresh rate then. But it does modify the audio, so its no longer "bit-exact". Its probably not something anyone can hear and it usually works just fine, but you need to be aware that your software works around the hardware problem in this manner. The clock deviation does not go away, its just "hidden" from madVR and compensated for on the audio side instead. And of course this does not work when bitstreaming.

The entire drop/repeat frame mechanic only exists because of audio. If we had no audio, we could just show the video at 23.977 instead of 23.976 and no person in the world would ever notice. But we do have audio, and the audio would lose sync with the video. So to maintain sync, the video renderer has to drop/repeat a frame when appropriate. Now the alternative solution is to change the audio instead, which is what PotPlayer is doing, and why its claiming a zero clock deviation - because it handles that, and madVR does not have to.

The only number that really matters is the number of dropped/repeated frames at the end of the movie. Everything else is just there as information.
Just thank you for this explanation.
I have developped a calculation sheet under excel to identify variante of trio [ total pixel V & H , pixel clock] that match perfect settings. Of course, with potplayer , when i have "no drop frame expected" i am at 23.97602 at the display and did notice this problem with clock deviation that i have , after that, tacking into account for some people using player with an existing clock deviation.

Then at that time, my question for this people was :
-do i need to give them the good setting to reach 23.97602 ?
or
- do i need to give them the good setting to reach "no drop frame expected" ?

I was pretty sure that it was the first solution but you give the information that i rather must choose the second solution.

Is that correct ?

I can trust you but it is a strange conclusion for me since for the same setting of GPU, if i compare potplayer (in pcm) without clock deviation and mpc-be (in pcm or also potplayer in bitstream) with a given clock deviation, i can see that value of display is the same (after stabilization)
Based on your answer, i would expect, that "no drop frame expected" would be displayed instead of the same "display" value.

means that with your assumption, if i have to target "no drop frame expected" in the calculation, i have a different setting depending on the player. It is very strange.


and also, i was not aware for the "reclock" of potplayer in PCM.
Strange also since i am set in wasapi bit perfect.

Last edited by Polopretress; 1st June 2018 at 01:16.
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Old 31st May 2018, 23:31   #51107  |  Link
Asmodian
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Originally Posted by Polopretress View Post
- do i need to give them the good setting to reach "no drop frame expected" ?
This, the audio clock is never perfect so you must always target a refresh rate that is perfect relative your audio clock, not true clock time.

wasapi bit perfect is bit perfect between the player and the sound card, it doesn't mean anything about what happens in the player.
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Old 31st May 2018, 23:34   #51108  |  Link
huhn
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the display HZ is relative to the system clock so it doesn't matter.

the clock deviation comes from the video clock and the audio clock so it kind of matters.

23.9702 is just a number that is totally worthless.

what you want is no frame drop the rest doesn't matter.

who the hell told you wasapi is bit perfect... as soon as you change the volume you are not bit perfect anymore and nothing stops you from running a couple filter on the audio before sending it to a wasapi end device.
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Old 1st June 2018, 00:42   #51109  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by veggav View Post
Thanks for the information.

About gamma there's no option to change it to disable on MadVR.
Only pure power curve and bt709.
At the tab color & gamma I have enable gamma processing unchecked.
Still I can see some difference changing pure power curve from 2.2 to 2.4 while watching a movie.
I guess if you set calibration to this diplay is already calibrated you need to set gamma.

The only other option I see is disable GPU gamma ramps, that is unchecked here. Is this what you are reffering?
If you changed the gamma, you would see a fairly significant change in brightness. This setting can't be disabled but can be ignored if you disabled gamma processing. You could also disable calibration controls if outputting at BT.709, as this is the default behavior without a selected calibration.
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Old 1st June 2018, 01:22   #51110  |  Link
Polopretress
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Ok, thank you.
Then i must change my conclusion and give result considering the time before to drop instead of the value of the display.
(but in this case, settings of the GPU card will be different depending on the player...)
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Old 1st June 2018, 01:32   #51111  |  Link
huhn
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read what reclock is...

it will be different on any PC anyway.
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Old 1st June 2018, 10:20   #51112  |  Link
pOpY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Just a short comment while still having piles of commercial work on my desk:

Thanks to my great Nvidia driver contact, I managed to get a fix for 1080p23 timings into newer driver versions. So stock 1080p23 timings should be much better now with newer drivers, probably also for 3D. I know, the newest drivers come with their own problems, so many are still using older driver versions. But JFYI...
Thank, you for this great news.
Can you please tell us in which driver version this fix will be included?

Thank you
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Old 1st June 2018, 10:35   #51113  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by pOpY View Post
Thank, you for this great news.
Can you please tell us in which driver version this fix will be included?
I have already reported that 397.93 brings a significant improvement for 3D vs previous versions. In 1080p23 3D, I get a frame repeat every 13 minutes vs one frame repeat every 3 minutes with previous drivers. I haven’t tested 1080p 2D as I have no use for it, but improvements might be there too. There might be further improvements in future drivers.
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MPC-BE/LAV/MadVR/jRiver/MyMovies V5.24
Denon X8500H>HD Fury Maestro>JVC RS2000

Last edited by Manni; 1st June 2018 at 11:32.
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Old 1st June 2018, 10:49   #51114  |  Link
pOpY
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Originally Posted by Manni View Post
I have already reported that 397.93 brings a significant improvement for 3D vs previous versions. In 1080p24 3D, I get a frame repeat every 13 minutes vs one frame repeat every 3 minutes with previous drivers. I havenít tested 1080p 2D as I have no use for it, but improvements might be there too. There might be further improvements in future drivers.
thx for the hint.
will try the 397.93 driver.
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Old 1st June 2018, 10:53   #51115  |  Link
madjock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
I have already reported that 397.93 brings a significant improvement for 3D vs previous versions. In 1080p24 3D, I get a frame repeat every 13 minutes vs one frame repeat every 3 minutes with previous drivers. I havenít tested 1080p 2D as I have no use for it, but improvements might be there too. There might be further improvements in future drivers.
Is there such a thing as 2D and 3D settings for drivers, as after I got good figures to setup Nvidia custom res, both work the same for me. Not bragging just didn't know they were different.

Only tried it with a HSBS Mkv so I am maybe missing something.
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Old 1st June 2018, 11:07   #51116  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by madjock View Post
Is there such a thing as 2D and 3D settings for drivers, as after I got good figures to setup Nvidia custom res, both work the same for me. Not bragging just didn't know they were different.

Only tried it with a HSBS Mkv so I am maybe missing something.
I'm talking specifically about 3D framed packed, which is a different video mode (1080p23FP). If you use T/B or SbS, then it's the same video mode as 1080p 2D (but it's not full res 1080p 3D, only half res).

I didn't test 1080p23 2D because I never use it, I upscale everything to 4K23 and I get 1 frame drop every hour with MadVR custom refresh rate with all drivers versions, so happy with that.
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MPC-BE/LAV/MadVR/jRiver/MyMovies V5.24
Denon X8500H>HD Fury Maestro>JVC RS2000
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Old 1st June 2018, 11:50   #51117  |  Link
madjock
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Originally Posted by Manni View Post
I'm talking specifically about 3D framed packed, which is a different video mode (1080p23FP). If you use T/B or SbS, then it's the same video mode as 1080p 2D (but it's not full res 1080p 3D, only half res).

I didn't test 1080p23 2D because I never use it, I upscale everything to 4K23 and I get 1 frame drop every hour with MadVR custom refresh rate with all drivers versions, so happy with that.
Ah makes sense.

Well this is what fixed my refresh rates, and I tried every driver etc.

https://forum.redfox.bz/threads/how-...-nvidia.72844/
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Old 1st June 2018, 13:18   #51118  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by madjock View Post
Ah makes sense.

Well this is what fixed my refresh rates, and I tried every driver etc.

https://forum.redfox.bz/threads/how-...-nvidia.72844/
This doesn’t work for 1080p23FP. NVidia’s control panel custom res and CRU don’t work in 3D modes.

In 2D, I get very good results with 4K23p and MadVR’s custom refresh rate, so there is nothing to fix. You should report if native 1080p23 (2D) is improved in 397.93, it might be.
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MPC-BE/LAV/MadVR/jRiver/MyMovies V5.24
Denon X8500H>HD Fury Maestro>JVC RS2000

Last edited by Manni; 1st June 2018 at 13:20.
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Old 1st June 2018, 13:46   #51119  |  Link
SweetLow
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Originally Posted by Polopretress View Post
see attached the beginning of the discussion :
It is NOT the beginning of discussion.
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Old 1st June 2018, 13:52   #51120  |  Link
madjock
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Originally Posted by Manni View Post
This doesnít work for 1080p23FP. NVidiaís control panel custom res and CRU donít work in 3D modes.

In 2D, I get very good results with 4K23p and MadVRís custom refresh rate, so there is nothing to fix. You should report if native 1080p23 (2D) is improved in 397.93, it might be.
I was getting audio drop outs with the latest, also Madshis statement and the age of the new driver, plus no mention of any fixes for 23.976 in the release notes tell me it has not been implemented yet.

I am pretty sure it goes to 23,970 as they all do, and I think the custom was not saving, anyway I gave up and went back to 390,77 which worked out better for me. I also am unsure how Nvidia could fix the driver when all clocks have to be taken into consideration, hence how madVRs custom and a tweaked Nvidias one can work, as we know seeing a 23.976 dead in framerate does not mean you will not get frame drops.
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