Kill Playback on Titles using PgcEdit

2COOL · 13th October 2004, 03:36

HTML guide hosted by r0lZ.

10/11/2004: PgcEdit v.0.3.5 used at this time.

10/12/2004: Additional disclaimer not documented with guide: If you have any of these present below in your Pre Commands after Kill Playback, the Title's cell(s) will still play.

LinkTopCell
LinkNextCell
LinkPrevCell
LinkCN
LinkPGN
LinkPTT

10/15/2004: Another disclaimer not documented with guide: If you have any of these present below in your Post Commands, you may experience endless playback (looping) on your Title after Kill Playback.

LinkTopPGC
LinkPGCN (Link to same PGC)
JumpVTS_TT

jeanl · 13th October 2004, 03:51

2COOL, that's pretty neat!
Could you possibly remind me why it's a good idea to leave the postcommand there (even though, supposedly, playback will never occur)?
Jeanl

jeanl · 13th October 2004, 05:02

@2COOL
Never mind, I found your explanation:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...0&pagenumber=5

Jeanl

2COOL · 13th October 2004, 05:39

There are more disclaimers to Kill Playback.

If you have any of these present in your Pre Commands after Kill Playback, the Title's cell(s) will still play.

LinkTopCell
LinkNextCell
LinkCN
LinkPGN
LinkPTT

jeanl · 13th October 2004, 05:51

Yes, I realized that when I read your post!
What do you think we should do in such cases? replace the link by a goto?
Jeanl

2COOL · 13th October 2004, 06:17

Quote:

Originally posted by jeanl
replace the link by a goto?

That's what jsoto was thinking about in this thread.

jeanl · 13th October 2004, 06:19

OK I see. I haven't seen a single case of that happening, but then again I haven't backed up that many DVDs...
Jeanl

blutach · 15th October 2004, 00:23

Folks,

I am not convinced that Killing Playback (or as jsoto/2COOL say, changing post in pre commands) is wholly a good thing.

As jeannl has pointed out - in several of her posts - if playback is killed, the GP Registers may not be correct. This would be especially true if BREAKs are converted to GOTOs.

I have had this experience recently - I blanked a lotta rubbish from the VMGM domain using VOBBlanker. The menu came up OK but the DVD didn't play.

Tried again, without having pre commands turned into posts and it worked beautifully. Of course, the (now blank) VOBs played (for 1/2 second), but big deal.

I think this is the big feature of VOBBlanker - the ability to blank cells, without affecting either the disk's structure or GP registers. Maybe VOBBlanker should have it disabled by default.

Comments?

jsoto · 15th October 2004, 00:37

Each DVD has its own tricks...

I agree there are some cases where the final DVD does not work (or does not work properly), but I'm still convinced the defaults in VobBlanker are the right ones (the most common).

jsoto

jeanl · 15th October 2004, 00:39

@Blutach,

Quote:

As jeannl has pointed out - in several of her posts - if playback is killed, the GP Registers may not be correct. This would be especially true if BREAKs are converted to GOTOs.

wait wait, I'm not sure I ever said that! I think I have said that if you skip playback on a PGC entirely (i.e. skipping precommands, postcommands, and cell commands, for example using a jump) then you might miss some register initializations.
However, what vobblanker and pgcedit do is different. They convert the postcommands into precommands, and change breaks to goto. The result is that in the absence of cell commands, the pgc does exactly what it did before: the same commands are executed in the same order. The difference is the PGC "exits" (goes where it normally would) before any video is played back. I think the whole idea is due to 2COOL, kudos to him, that's very clever

.
Now, if there are cell commands, that's different because these won't be executed (because no playback -> no cell command). Also, if there are link commands in the precommands, playback might actually not be killed (but that's not what's happening in your case).

However, vobblanker is smart about cell commands and it gives you a choice to kill or not kill if there are cell commands. In your case, I would definitely check whether the PGC that you killed had cell commands. If not, this would mean that there's something broken with vobblanker's kill playback. Also, I would definitely try to do the same kill playback using pgcedit. If that works, then there's a problem in vobblanker.

2COOL, can you confirm that? If there are no postcommands, killed or not killed playback should leave GPRMS, SPRMS in exactly the same state, right?

Jean
P.S. I'm a he, jean is a male name where I come from

jsoto · 15th October 2004, 00:44

@Blutach

Quote:

In your case, I would definitely check whether the PGC that you killed had cell commands. If not, this would mean that there's something broken with vobblanker's kill playback. Also, I would definitely try to do the same kill playback using pgcedit. If that works, then there's a problem in vobblanker.

Please check and give me the conclusions.

jsoto
PS

Quote:

I'm a he...

I was going to ask... We have not many girls here, I think.

blutach · 15th October 2004, 00:50

My apologies Jean - I didn't suspect a French name (I just saw California,

).

I will have to have a look at the burned disk and see if there are cell commands. But I guess that is the point - if no BREAK, then no cell commands can execute, possibly screwing up the GPRMs.

jeanl · 15th October 2004, 00:53

or the entire navigation if it's a link...
Jeanl

blutach · 15th October 2004, 01:12

@jsoto and jeanl

I've looked at the cell commands in VMGM and each cell only has a LinkTail PGC, which simply links to the Post commands.

@jsoto - Are the Post Commands still present under VOBBlanker (a la PGCEdit?) If so, I'm not sure what went wrong.

Regards

jsoto · 15th October 2004, 01:16

Quote:

Are the Post Commands still present under VOBBlanker (a la PGCEdit?) If so, I'm not sure what went wrong.

They should be there, but changed into precommands.
jsoto

jeanl · 15th October 2004, 01:18

@blutach,
You should definitely get to the bottom of that. You're the second user who's encountered a problem of this nature (I'm trying to find the post), and I'm pretty sure things should definitely be OK in the case you describe. I'm pretty sure vobblanker leaves the postcommand there anyway (but in any case that's only useful if there's a link in the precommands and playback isn't actually killed).
Here's what you could do:
- Check that indeed playback is broken, narrow that down to 1 PGC being killed and breaking the DVD.
- Then post back the precommand/postcommand/cellcommand from pgcedit in the original PGC and the killed PGC.
We should be able to figure out what went wrong!
I know it's a bit of work (including burning if playback only breaks on your standalone) but it's worth it

.

Jeanl

blutach · 15th October 2004, 01:30

@jsoto

The Posts changing into Pre commands is one thing, but if, for some reason, the cell plays and there are no post commands left, then problems may occur.

In PGCEdit, r0lZ essentially COPIES the post commands to the pre command section leaving the post commands untouched (He also converts BREAKs to GOTOs). That is, the post commands are still there as post commands (even though they may never be executed) after the PGCEdit Kill Playback routine. I have never had a problem with this idea.

But as 2COOL and others have pointed out, the cell may still execute and if there are no post commands to execute, then we may have an error situation.

I will look at the disk again and report back.

Regards

blutach · 15th October 2004, 01:34

I do suspect we ought to transfer this discussion to the VOBBlanker thread

blutach · 15th October 2004, 01:44

@jeanl

(Tongue in cheek)

If we had a nice trace function in PGCEdit, it would be very easy to track down

@r0lZ

I know you're working on this, so, please don't take offence. I just mention it because I know Jean has wanted this for some time

r0lZ · 15th October 2004, 02:32

Quote:

I know you're working on this, so, please don't take offence. I just mention it because I know Jean has wanted this for some time

It's coming... Some more patience, please...

BTW, you may not kill playback on a menu with buttons. Have you checked that?

13th October 2004, 03:36	#1 \| Link
2COOL PGC Navigator in Training Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NTSC Land Posts: 3,552	Kill Playback on Titles using PgcEdit HTML guide hosted by r0lZ. 10/11/2004: PgcEdit v.0.3.5 used at this time. 10/12/2004: Additional disclaimer not documented with guide: If you have any of these present below in your Pre Commands after Kill Playback, the Title's cell(s) will still play. LinkTopCell LinkNextCell LinkPrevCell LinkCN LinkPGN LinkPTT 10/15/2004: Another disclaimer not documented with guide: If you have any of these present below in your Post Commands, you may experience endless playback (looping) on your Title after Kill Playback. LinkTopPGC LinkPGCN (Link to same PGC) JumpVTS_TT __________________ 2COOL Last edited by 2COOL; 11th July 2005 at 19:40.

13th October 2004, 05:39	#4 \| Link
2COOL PGC Navigator in Training Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NTSC Land Posts: 3,552	There are more disclaimers to Kill Playback. If you have any of these present in your Pre Commands after Kill Playback, the Title's cell(s) will still play. LinkTopCell LinkNextCell LinkCN LinkPGN LinkPTT __________________ 2COOL Last edited by 2COOL; 16th October 2004 at 02:03.

15th October 2004, 00:23	#8 \| Link
blutach Country Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: is everything! Posts: 6,499	Killng Playback Folks, I am not convinced that Killing Playback (or as jsoto/2COOL say, changing post in pre commands) is wholly a good thing. As jeannl has pointed out - in several of her posts - if playback is killed, the GP Registers may not be correct. This would be especially true if BREAKs are converted to GOTOs. I have had this experience recently - I blanked a lotta rubbish from the VMGM domain using VOBBlanker. The menu came up OK but the DVD didn't play. Tried again, without having pre commands turned into posts and it worked beautifully. Of course, the (now blank) VOBs played (for 1/2 second), but big deal. I think this is the big feature of VOBBlanker - the ability to blank cells, without affecting either the disk's structure or GP registers. Maybe VOBBlanker should have it disabled by default. Comments? __________________ Les Only use genuine Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden media.

15th October 2004, 00:37	#9 \| Link
jsoto Just a Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 2,067	Each DVD has its own tricks... I agree there are some cases where the final DVD does not work (or does not work properly), but I'm still convinced the defaults in VobBlanker are the right ones (the most common). jsoto __________________ Web sites with my tools http://download.videohelp.com/jsoto http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/

15th October 2004, 00:50	#12 \| Link
blutach Country Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: is everything! Posts: 6,499	Cell commands My apologies Jean - I didn't suspect a French name (I just saw California, ). I will have to have a look at the burned disk and see if there are cell commands. But I guess that is the point - if no BREAK, then no cell commands can execute, possibly screwing up the GPRMs. __________________ Les Only use genuine Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden media.

13th October 2004, 03:51	#2 \| Link
jeanl Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California, USA Posts: 2,079	2COOL, that's pretty neat! Could you possibly remind me why it's a good idea to leave the postcommand there (even though, supposedly, playback will never occur)? Jeanl

13th October 2004, 05:02	#3 \| Link
jeanl Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California, USA Posts: 2,079	@2COOL Never mind, I found your explanation: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...0&pagenumber=5 Jeanl

13th October 2004, 05:51	#5 \| Link
jeanl Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California, USA Posts: 2,079	Yes, I realized that when I read your post! What do you think we should do in such cases? replace the link by a goto? Jeanl

13th October 2004, 06:19	#7 \| Link
jeanl Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California, USA Posts: 2,079	OK I see. I haven't seen a single case of that happening, but then again I haven't backed up that many DVDs... Jeanl

15th October 2004, 00:53	#13 \| Link
jeanl Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California, USA Posts: 2,079	or the entire navigation if it's a link... Jeanl

15th October 2004, 01:12	#14 \| Link
blutach Country Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: is everything! Posts: 6,499	@jsoto and jeanl I've looked at the cell commands in VMGM and each cell only has a LinkTail PGC, which simply links to the Post commands. @jsoto - Are the Post Commands still present under VOBBlanker (a la PGCEdit?) If so, I'm not sure what went wrong. Regards __________________ Les Only use genuine Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden media.

15th October 2004, 01:18	#16 \| Link
jeanl Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California, USA Posts: 2,079	@blutach, You should definitely get to the bottom of that. You're the second user who's encountered a problem of this nature (I'm trying to find the post), and I'm pretty sure things should definitely be OK in the case you describe. I'm pretty sure vobblanker leaves the postcommand there anyway (but in any case that's only useful if there's a link in the precommands and playback isn't actually killed). Here's what you could do: - Check that indeed playback is broken, narrow that down to 1 PGC being killed and breaking the DVD. - Then post back the precommand/postcommand/cellcommand from pgcedit in the original PGC and the killed PGC. We should be able to figure out what went wrong! I know it's a bit of work (including burning if playback only breaks on your standalone) but it's worth it . Jeanl

15th October 2004, 01:30	#17 \| Link
blutach Country Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: is everything! Posts: 6,499	@jsoto The Posts changing into Pre commands is one thing, but if, for some reason, the cell plays and there are no post commands left, then problems may occur. In PGCEdit, r0lZ essentially COPIES the post commands to the pre command section leaving the post commands untouched (He also converts BREAKs to GOTOs). That is, the post commands are still there as post commands (even though they may never be executed) after the PGCEdit Kill Playback routine. I have never had a problem with this idea. But as 2COOL and others have pointed out, the cell may still execute and if there are no post commands to execute, then we may have an error situation. I will look at the disk again and report back. Regards __________________ Les Only use genuine Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden media.

15th October 2004, 01:34	#18 \| Link
blutach Country Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: is everything! Posts: 6,499	I do suspect we ought to transfer this discussion to the VOBBlanker thread __________________ Les Only use genuine Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden media.

15th October 2004, 01:44	#19 \| Link
blutach Country Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: is everything! Posts: 6,499	@jeanl (Tongue in cheek) If we had a nice trace function in PGCEdit, it would be very easy to track down @r0lZ I know you're working on this, so, please don't take offence. I just mention it because I know Jean has wanted this for some time __________________ Les Only use genuine Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden media.

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