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30th July 2007, 08:03 | #483 | Link | |
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you can see ec3to 1.10 works now without DRC AND without DialogNorm (for EAC3). TrueHD is still with DialogNorm. Madshi....nice work! SO the new Conclusion is : TrueHD ,always, with NeroDecoder : DRC OFF ,Dialog ON EAC3 "only" via "eac3to" with NeroDecoder : DRC OFF DialogN OFF Later Today when im have Time i will show you that the Dynamics are as like as the AC3 640kbps from BluRay ! Nice Last edited by ACrowley; 30th July 2007 at 08:08. |
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30th July 2007, 08:51 | #485 | Link |
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Heres a Comparison from AC3 640kbps Bluray and decoded EAC3 640kbps HDDVD (Nero eac3to 1.10) from 300
Its obvious. Thew 1.10 Version works perfect . No DRC ,No DialogNorm. anymore with NeroAudioDecoder Last edited by ACrowley; 30th July 2007 at 08:58. |
30th July 2007, 09:15 | #486 | Link |
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Excellent!
I have observed an interesting effect. I just encoded the English DD+ track from Batman Begins to DTS (w/ Surcode) and muxed the track alongside the DD track from the R1 DVD. With the DTS track dialog is considerably "louder" than the DD version. I route audio to my receiver over SPDIF (bit-perfect), and the receiver displays "DIAL. NORM +4" for the DTS track (Pioneer 1014). So it seems that DD+ -> DTS yields dialog loudness that is stronger than the "reference" from the DVD. Not that it sounds unpleasant. I'm just wondering if we aren't running into unintended consequences by ignoring the Dialog Normalization in the source DD+ track ... |
30th July 2007, 09:40 | #487 | Link | |
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30th July 2007, 09:59 | #488 | Link | |
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You're right, picked a few more listening spots, all channels are louder. The receiver doesn't do anything other than adhere to the standard. Maybe Surcode embeds some additional data?
In comparison I can say that the transcoded DTS is indeed louder than reference DTS tracks from retail DVDs. EDIT: On my receiver DTS tracks are typically less loud than DD tracks from the same DVD. I suspect that's because due to the algorithmic nature of DTS vs DD the DTS version allows for a greater dynamic range and thus needs more headroom, resulting in an overall lower volume. However, with Batman Begins the transcoded DTS is much louder than the original DD track. Quote:
Last edited by honai; 30th July 2007 at 10:14. |
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30th July 2007, 10:08 | #489 | Link |
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So, should I add a switch to allow dialnorm to happen instead of always defeating it? Probably it makes sense to defeat dialnorm if you reencode in AC3, because then you can tell the AC3 encoder to reuse the original dialnorm value (eac3to 1.10 output the original dialnorm value for your information). But maybe when reencoding to DTS it would be better to let dialnorm happen during decoding? However, I think when decoding 16bit TrueHD tracks it would be better to defeat dialnorm to make lossless reencoding easier without quality loss and with small file sizes.
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30th July 2007, 10:11 | #490 | Link |
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Yes, make it an option, that'd be perfect!
EDIT: Hm, come to think of it - maybe there is indeed something in the DTS header (from the Surcode encoder) that tells the DTS encoder in the receiver if Dialog Normalization should be applied. Perhaps we should ask someone who's familiar with the DTS standard. Using Google I found conflicting information, i.e. that DTS has/has no facilities for Dial. Norm. information in the stream. EDIT2: http://www.laaudiofile.com/images/dtsencoder.jpg Seems to follow the DD standard of 27..31dB Dialog Normalization. Surcode doesn't expose that parameter, but the resulting DTS stream should definitely receive the Dial. Norm. value obtained from the original EAC3 stream. Last edited by honai; 30th July 2007 at 10:29. |
30th July 2007, 12:37 | #492 | Link |
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Here's a thread about DialNorm which I find worth reading:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...d.php?t=230926 |
30th July 2007, 15:23 | #493 | Link | |
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@madshi Instead a option to apply or not the patch to override the DialNorm attenuation I think honai need a way to pass the original ac3 DialNorm value to the DTS encoder like parameter. |
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30th July 2007, 15:33 | #494 | Link | |
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Maybe I should manipulate the final DTS file to fill in the right DialNorm value? |
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30th July 2007, 17:07 | #495 | Link | |
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HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Minnetonka Audio Software\Surcode DTS\OPTIONS Theres Value for DialogNorm and DRC Looks like default applies DialogN, maybe you should leave its on default...i never had Problems with Surcode encoded dts and DialogNorm and Dynamic Compress etc. Not with full Dynamic Sources and not with pre Dynam. compressed Sources .mhh @honai I think DTS should sound louder as like as DD on most Receivers..not lower Volume. On my Pioneer dts is always louder Last edited by ACrowley; 30th July 2007 at 17:11. |
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30th July 2007, 17:20 | #497 | Link | ||
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Why are you saying "applies"? There's nothing about DialNorm that the encoder "applies". The encoder does not do any DialNorm processing. All it does is writing a specific DialNorm number to the header of every encoded frame. DialNorm is "applied" by the decoder, not by the encoder! |
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30th July 2007, 17:32 | #498 | Link | |
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Thats what i mean.. i told you my English is bad. I should better say the encoder applies the DialogNorm Info into the encode..better ? Do you know how a DTS encoder handles Dialog Norm value ? I dont if the dts encoder handles the encoding/decoding off DialogN as like as AC3,when -27db is in EAC3/AC3 if -27db is correct for a reencoded dts too? I really dont know the DTS tech Specs But when you plan to set the DialogNorm from EAC3 into dts,it should be done for a TrueHD Source DialogNorm too ? Mhhh i never thought about..all my dts reencodes are at default without any special DialogNorm Setting because theres simply no Option in Surcode/Nuendo HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Minnetonka Audio Software\Surcode DTS\OPTIONS Last edited by ACrowley; 30th July 2007 at 18:06. |
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30th July 2007, 17:43 | #499 | Link | ||
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P.S: You can test it out. Just set different DialNorm values in the Surcode registry keys. Then test encode in DTS. Then decode again and check the WAV. Quote:
So, how is the exact names of these registry values? |
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30th July 2007, 22:02 | #500 | Link |
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@ACrowley: Wow, you have many more values in your registry than I have! Which Surcode version are you using? The Dialnorm value in your registry is "-27". I wonder what effect (if any) the "3db Attenuation" registry value has? Do you have time to test that? Would be interested if it has any effect! Unfortunately I'm currently very short on time, so I can't test that myself right now...
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