madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[The 8472]

Originally Posted by madshi

That's probably due to the combination of using Smooth Motion FRC and Error diffusion. Using both means that Smooth Motion FRC increases the cost of Error diffusion, because Error diffusion must be applied to every output frame, and Smooth Motion FRC increases the output frames from 24fps to nearly 60fps. So basically Smooth Motion FRC means that the cost of Error diffusion increases by a factor of almost 2.5x.

Yeah, I was just pointing out that high target resolutions + SM can make this quite expensive, since you seemed surprised by someone mentioning the high performance impact.

I don't think it's as high quality as error diffusion?

Correct, I meant it as middle ground between random and error diffusion.

Currently I'm doing Error diffusion in RGB. Maybe doing it in YCbCr would produce nicer results

Based on some toying around with imagemagick I think doing color reductions in L*a*b* or similar linear color spaces gives visually better results, but doing the dithering before non-linear colorspace transforms is difficult to get right.

I'm not sure. Other than that I don't have an algorithm which would spreads errors over multiple color channels. All the algorithms I know strictly work on one channel at a time, only.

The find-closest-color step of the algorithm can be done based on colorspace-aware distance metrics, but that requires iterative searches. That's probably prohibitively expensive to do in realtime.

[turbojet]

madshi: Now knowing that SM doesn't work well in window mode, although it's worked fine up until now. I'm trying to set a profile to use overlay only when using potplayer otherwise window. if (mediaPlayer = "F:\Tools\PotPlayer\PotPlayerMini.exe") "overlay" else "window" is what I've put but it always chooses window. Also tried "PotPlayermini.exe" and "Potplayer" any ideas?

Does your GTX 650 drop frames when using nnedi3 from 720p to 1080? It does here but can't figure out why, gpu load is fine and SD -> 1080 works fine with about the same gpu load.

Andrey /MAG/: you need to downgrade to 327 drivers.

[omarank]

Originally Posted by madshi

Are we talking forced film mode? With forced film mode disabled, deintFps will be around 50.0 for PAL content.

Although I have set forced film mode, but that doesn't seem to be related to my problem. Here I am talking about a profiling script for smooth motion. Yes, with DXVA deinterlacing, deintFps will 50.0 for PAL content but for 50 fps content I would like to enable smooth motion. I don't want it to be enabled for still images which LAV output as 25 fps content.

As you said that you couldn't confirm the bug which I reported, I wrote this script which can perhaps let you reproduce the bug with smooth motion profiling.

Originally Posted by madshi

The algorithm itself seems to be quite fast. About 2.5ms per 1080p frame on my HD7770. The majority of the cost comes from using OpenCL <-> D3D9 interop, at least when using AMD. On Intel GPUs interop is almost free, but the Intel GPU itself is rather slow with OpenCL. I don't about NVidia.

Now I have a very strong urge to make this request to you even though you have stated that you would be sticking to OpenCL for all compute related things. Could you please consider doing an alternative CUDA implementation *ONLY* for error diffusion (for the rest of the things OpenCL is fine)? With CUDA implementation, perhaps nvidia users with moderate GPU can also use error diffusion.

[drew_afx]

source is 1080p 23.976fps
no hardware decoding (avcodec active in Lav Video Decoder), outputs 8bit NV12 4:2:0
no processing
chroma upscaling: Jinc3/AR
no image doubling
image upscaling: Jinc3/AR
image downscaling: Catmull-Rom/AR,LL
delay playback start until render queue is full, everything else unchecked
CPU queue size: 8
GPU queue size: 8
windowed mode backbuffers: 4
no smooth motion

GPU used is GeForce 650 Ti Boost GDDR5 on PCI-E 3.0x16
Clock speed Core/Memory 1032MHz(1136MHz @boost) / 1502MHz
Quick look at OpenCL benchmark results (650 Ti Boost , Radeon HD 7770)
Luxmark 334 score , 789 score
RatGPU 73.20 sec , 101.37 sec
Bitmining 55.8 MHash/s , 170.6 MHash/s
GPU Caps - PostFX 93 FPS , 145 FPS

read avg rendering time when the value was stable for about 10sec

<540p> - 518400 pixels
6.95ms w/o opencl error diffusion
9.35ms with opencl error diffusion

2.40ms diff

4.63ns per pixel

<1080p> - 2073600 pixels
5.53ms w/o opencl error diffusion
13.45ms with opencl error diffusion

7.92ms diff

3.82ns per pixel

<2160p> - 8294400 pixels
23.77ms w/o opencl error diffusion
50.86ms with opencl error diffusion

27.09ms diff

3.266ns per pixel

[The 8472]

Originally Posted by Farfie

http://puu.sh/6EgZs.jpg

This is without error diffusion.

Something tells me AMD performance isn't nearly this bad. I don't see how I could ever do 4k upscale like this at anything above 16 neurons. Is this expected? I'd be willing to bet, from the reports in this thread, that AMD performance is much better.
Not trying to complain at all, but I love NNEDI3 and I'd also love to always use it for upscaling at at least 32 neurons, and I feel like a 680 should be able to do so much more.

1080p30 -(nnedi)-> 2160p30 -(downscaler)-> 1440p30 actually is more work than direct doubling to 4k.

You could pick nearest neighbor as downscaler to get an approximate idea how it would perform on a 4k screen. You also have to keep in mind that it first needs to do a 4:4:4 conversion and then upscale the chroma separately too. That's lots of data shuffling involved there.

I can get nnedi with 32 neurons and 1080p24 -> 4k -> 1440p24 to work on my GTX670 - barely so - by bumping up the rendering queues and skimping on all the other scaling algorithms.

Next-generation cards might be able to handle 4k scaling reasonably well. And the generation after that maybe for HFR content.

That or pester madshi to get SLI working / distribute workload among devices.

[baii]

For 720p and 1080p content on 1440p monitor, is needi3 better ("sharper" w/o unwanted artifacts) than jinc3 in most situation?

Considering switch to AMD if so as AMD perform 2-3x better at same price point according to the benchmark result from nnedi3 opencl thread.

Originally Posted by cyberbeing

Yes, that's correct.



Who knows, but considering madshi has stated that OpenCL <-> D3D9 interop fails (black screen), while the OpenCL processing is actually successful, I'd be more suspect that the Direct3D driver is bugged rather then the OpenCL driver.

I think using Direct3D .dll files from a previous set could be quite problematic and break way more things... but just in case - which .dll files control D3D9???

They say nVidia is aware of the issue - is that true? Since when has it been aware of the bug? Any updates on when it will be fixed?

[Ver Greeneyes]

Hard to say how monolithic Nvidia's driver team is, but someone at Nvidia was informed about the problem about a day before the forum went down, so 3-4 days I'd say.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by Werewolfy

No, some Philips TV don't even support 4:4:4 http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/phili...1309193320.htm (see the benchmark results)

Have you considered this one? http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk /news/kdl32w653-201310313413.htm It supports 4:4:4 at every refresh rates and it has everything except 3D, I don't know if it's a requirement for you.

3d is a must have and should work with intel, nvidia and amd.

the pf8008 doesn't have pc-mode in his manuel and that's not a cheap model...

the pf4508 is the smallest Philips with pc-mode and 3d but i'm not sure anymore...

[Gagorian]

Originally Posted by Gagorian

Is it normal that OpenCL error diffusion increases average rendering time 3x? My GPU is a r9 270 (basically a 7870?) and using latest madVR.

I tried playing a few 1080p24 standard x264 blu-ray movies presented at 23.976 Hz.

Average rendering time (using Jinc 3 AR for both Luma and Chroma, Debanding low, all trade quality for performance options except OpenCL error diffusion disabled) was around 8-10 ms. The rendering time is about the same for 720p movies, so scaling for instance is rather cheap even with Jinc 3 AR.

With OpenCL error diffusion the average rendering time was raised to around 28-30 ms.

Should it really be that demanding?

Originally Posted by madshi

Is smooth motion on or off? What is your display resolution? On my PC the cost of Error diffusion seems to be quite a bit lower than on yours, even though I only have an 7770. Is your display resolution much higher than 1080p, maybe?

Smooth motion is off (like I said presented at 23.976 Hz) and display resolution is 1080p. Newest catalyst drivers and AMD APP SDK 2.9 installed.

[Qaq]

I'm thinking of OpenCL GPGPU benchmarks: http://forums.aida64.com/topic/1539-opencl-gpgpu-benchmarks/
Worth it?

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Werewolfy

Have you considered this one? http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk /news/kdl32w653-201310313413.htm It supports 4:4:4 at every refresh rates and it has everything except 3D, I don't know if it's a requirement for you.

3D is a key requirement, and it must work with all GPUs, not be an NVidia only solution. How am I supposed to ever add 3D support to madVR if my development monitor can't do 3D with all GPUs?

Originally Posted by Farfie

This is without error diffusion.

Something tells me AMD performance isn't nearly this bad. I don't see how I could ever do 4k upscale like this at anything above 16 neurons. Is this expected? I'd be willing to bet, from the reports in this thread, that AMD performance is much better.
Not trying to complain at all, but I love NNEDI3 and I'd also love to always use it for upscaling at at least 32 neurons, and I feel like a 680 should be able to do so much more.

Which scaling algorithms are you using in the image upscaling and image downscaling pages? See my recommendations in the v0.87.4 announcement post. That might allow this to work on your GPU. If all else fails you could check whether maybe 16 neurons still produces a better image than not using NNEDI3 at all.

Originally Posted by iSunrise

I tried to narrow it down further, it seems to be related to the deinterlacing/NNEDI3 settings (the clip itself is interlaced) and madVR uses IVTC/deinterlacing for it. Please always test with filmrez.ts.

So, for some reason NNEDI3 triggers that same problem, when deinterlacing is at some specific settings.

Please play around with the following:

1) automatically activate deinterlacing when needed (checked)
1.1) if in doubt, deactivate deinterlacing (checked)
- don´t check anything else in the deinterlacing tab -
2) enable NNEDI3 chroma upscaling
3) if you now suddenly check automatic source type in the deinterlacing tab, the bug goes away (grey levels instead of yellow)
4) If there´s no bug at this stage, enable/disable NNEDI3 chroma upsampling again
5) If there´s no bug at this stage, enable/disable deinterlacing again

I've already ripped out the NVidia GPU in my development PC again. You know, it totally refuses to even acknowledge the precense of my LCD monitor, when connecting via DVI, while my Intel and AMD GPUs have no problems with that. FWIW, the NVidia does like my projector, when using DVI. I have to use VGA connection to get an image with the NVidia 650 on my LCD monitor. I can put the NVidia GPU back in, but doing so costs time and effort. So I'd need a 100% sure way to reproduce any specific problem.

So can anybody else with an NVidia GPU confirm/deny iSunrise's problem?

Originally Posted by DragonQ

Just because it's not that demanding for you on your rig doesn't mean it isn't in general

Correct.

Originally Posted by DragonQ

even with your decent AMD card you can't use it with Smooth Motion, right?

No, that's not right at all. Actually I've just tested the following:

- Blu-Ray 1080p24 playback
- tested on 1080p projector @ 60Hz, 100% view
- tested on 1680x1050 monitor @ 60Hz, downscaled
- NNEDI3 chroma upscaling, 16 neurons
- Catmull-Rom AR image downscaling with linear light
- image debanding with gradient angle detection
- error diffusion
- smooth motion FRC with 24fps @ 60Hz

Basically all "trade quality for performance" options unchecked. Highest possible settings/algorithms everywhere (!!), including debanding and smooth motion FRC. It plays perfectly smooth on both my projector and my LCD monitor. And this is the main purpose of madVR: Playing Blu-Rays perfectly.

Yes, rendering times are quite high, around 40ms actually, so it was really close, but it worked. And yes, using a higher res monitor would increase the cost so much that it would not run smoothly, anymore. So Error Diffusion can't always be used, it does require a decent GPU, and it increases rendering times quite noticeably, but it *can* be used just fine, even with Smooth Motion turned on, plus NNEDI3 chroma upscaling, debanding and all the bells and whistles, with a mid-range GPU like my HD7770.

FYI, when switching my projector to 24Hz (so Smooth Motion turned itself off automatically), rendering times with the same maxed out settings as above were 29ms. So I still have about 11-12ms headroom for future algorithms.

Originally Posted by DragonQ

Dunno about nVidia. Surely that leaves a minority of hardware combinations where it would be feasible? Maybe we have a different definition of "demanding". I forgot about the new profiles though, I suppose they mean more people can use it for some video types.

I didn't conclude anything madshi, I used the word suggest.

Please understand that it's frustrating to me if you suggest that one of the new features in madVR might be unusable for the majority of users.

Originally Posted by cyberbeing

That's unfortunate. It may be worth trying it on YCbCr, or maybe even better converting RGB -> L*a*b* channels and doing error-diffusion dither on that.

Actually my idea doesn't work. I could apply Error Diffusion in YCbCr color space, but that's not what madVR outputs. I'd have to convert back to RGB afterwards. And after the conversion I'd again have RGB floating point data. So I'd have to apply Error Diffusion yet again.

Originally Posted by leeperry

Basically, if I set mVR to automatically roll refresh rates when playback starts then everything's fine but if I set it to roll refresh rates when going FS then FSE is more likely to fail. Actually I can easily reproduce the problem if I wait for mVR's OSD to appear and instantly switch to FS.....then I get this in mVR's logs:

00003601 Render   COsd::DisplayMessage(self: 0C9D1FB8, message: exclusive mode failed, milliseconds: 2000)
00003601 Render   CQueue::IsStillImage();
00003601 Render   CQueue::IsRunGraphWhenQueueFull(self: 0C9F4188) -> no
00003601 Render   CQueue::IsStillImage() -> no
00003601 Render   COsd::DisplayMessage(self: 0C9D1FB8) -> +
00003601 Render   CDirect3D::ResetDevice(self: 0C9D01E0) -> switching to fullscreen failed (8876086c)

I've taken the liberty of uploading some working and failing logs at PotP+mVR.rar (864 KB)

I've tried hard but I can't get MPC-HC to fail.

Well, it seems to have something to do with what PotP does. You could try the various PotP settings to see if any of those fixes the problem. Maybe those new D3D9 PotP options to render the GUI in FSE mode is causing this problem? I don't know. Since this only seems to occur with PotP, I don't know if I can do much to fix it. This might be PotP's job to fix. In any case, I currently don't have the time to look into this.

Originally Posted by leeperry

Well, I think the BenQ GW2760HS might be right up your alley......

I don't see any indication that it supports 3D? And if it does, doesn't BenQ usually do that NVidia only 3D stuff? I need 3D to work with all GPUs.

<sigh> Finding a usable PC monitor for my needs seems to be really hard...

Originally Posted by Andrey /MAG/

nnedi3 doubling makes picture very dark when I use the last NVIDIA WHQL driver 332.

Please re-read the v0.87.4 announcement post carefully.

Originally Posted by sajara

I can only say that with my test video H264 720x404 25fps with HD5730M:

upscale settings
chroma: lanczos 3 taps
image: jinc 3 taps
debanding: low
fade: high

laptop monitor res:1366x768@60hz
FSE: on
smooth motion: off

random dithering: rendering 13.84ms/gpu 43%
OpenCL error diffusion: rendering 28.36ms / gpu 70%

I think it scales very nicely for a low end mobile GPU upscaling to a bit over HD res.

Thanks. Of course having Smooth Motion FRC off and having a relatively low display resolution helps. To be honest, in your situation I think I'd prefer using Smooth Motion FRC over Error Diffusion, if you can only use one of both features. But it's good to know that Error Diffusion might still be fast enough in some situations even on mobile GPUs.

Originally Posted by JarrettH

Is it worth it to have debanding on the low setting all the time? I don't watch animation very much, just good quality films. I can think of instances where I might have seen banding (light sources, logo fades), but it wasn't that severe

It's your decision, really. Maybe if you find a movie scene where you can see banding, you could check whether debanding would help in that scene. Probably on "low" setting it might only reduce the problem, but not fully remove it, but it depends on the situation...

Originally Posted by cyberbeing

When playing around with the NNEDI3 doubling on 720p anime viewed at 1080p, I came to the conclusion that 32 neurons is not worthwhile. You don't get a big step-up in edge quality from 16 neurons until you use 64 neurons.

But this interests me. Could you expand on the *some* videos which have artifacts using NNEDI3 16 neurons? Better yet, take a PNG screenshot of the source video at original resolution so I can test myself in madVR.

Simple test: Use MS Paint, light gray background. Some diagonal black lines on top. Upscale this with 16 neurons. Ouch.

Generally, with some of the usual resampling test images, I've found that every step up in neurons improves quality a little bit. With some test images one specific step might seem bigger than another. I think it depends on the exact edge angles etc.

Originally Posted by cyberbeing

One addition though. The 'chroma upscaling' setting for NNEDI3 does have a noticeable impact on chroma quality, especially when dealing with DVD resolution content and below. I'd consider it worthwhile for at least SD content if you can afford it.

I can imagine that it could help for some DVDs. At least there it should be much more useful (and less power hungry, too) compared to using it for the chroma channels in the image doubling settings page.

Originally Posted by Audionut

Bit the bullet and got an HD 7790.

Now I have none of the quality tradeoffs enabled, debanding enabled, NNEDI3 (32 neurons) chroma upscaling and it purrs like a kitten. This is in 24.976 playback as I prefer the odd motion judder to the current smooth motion algorithms.

One thing I am not entirely certain of, the rendering times drop when I output 16bit 4:4:4 from LAV, I assume this is because LAV is doing some of the processing? I also assume it's best to just output 8bit 4:2:0 from LAV and let mVR do all the grunt work?

You should check all the output format options in LAV. That allows LAV to output the decoded video in its native format, which is the best solution. LAV can do chroma upscaling and it can also "increase" the bitdepth (it just adds some zeros), but madVR can do all that in better quality.

If you send 4:4:4 from LAV, madVR doesn't have to do chroma upscaling, so the GPU has less work to do. That explains the drop in the rendering times.

Originally Posted by The 8472

Yeah, I was just pointing out that high target resolutions + SM can make this quite expensive

True.

Originally Posted by turbojet

madshi: Now knowing that SM doesn't work well in window mode, although it's worked fine up until now.

Well, it works, as long as you keep the rendering times low enough (lower than ~ 16ms for 60Hz).

Originally Posted by turbojet

if (mediaPlayer = "F:\Tools\PotPlayer\PotPlayerMini.exe") "overlay" else "window" is what I've put but it always chooses window. Also tried "PotPlayermini.exe" and "Potplayer" any ideas?

The path is removed from madVR. Use only the exe file name.

Originally Posted by turbojet

Does your GTX 650 drop frames when using nnedi3 from 720p to 1080?

Haven't tested that.

Originally Posted by omarank

Although I have set forced film mode, but that doesn't seem to be related to my problem. Here I am talking about a profiling script for smooth motion. Yes, with DXVA deinterlacing, deintFps will 50.0 for PAL content but for 50 fps content I would like to enable smooth motion. I don't want it to be enabled for still images which LAV output as 25 fps content.

As you said that you couldn't confirm the bug which I reported, I wrote this script which can perhaps let you reproduce the bug with smooth motion profiling.

I'm sorry, but I don't really have the time to test "perhaps" bugs. If you can make a step-by-step guide to reproducing a specific problem, ideally with a small video sample to help, then I'd be happy to look into this.

Originally Posted by omarank

Now I have a very strong urge to make this request to you even though you have stated that you would be sticking to OpenCL for all compute related things. Could you please consider doing an alternative CUDA implementation *ONLY* for error diffusion (for the rest of the things OpenCL is fine)? With CUDA implementation, perhaps nvidia users with moderate GPU can also use error diffusion.

No, sorry. It's not just the kernel which would need to be converted. I'd have to implement a full blown CUDA framework in madVR with all the interop stuff etc. That's quite a lot of work. I do plan to look into DirectCompute as a possible OpenCL alternative/replacement, though. It's supported by all GPUs.

Originally Posted by drew_afx

GPU used is GeForce 650 Ti Boost GDDR5 on PCI-E 3.0x16
Clock speed Core/Memory 1032MHz(1136MHz @boost) / 1502MHz
Quick look at OpenCL benchmark results (650 Ti Boost , Radeon HD 7770)
Luxmark 334 score , 789 score
RatGPU 73.20 sec , 101.37 sec
Bitmining 55.8 MHash/s , 170.6 MHash/s
GPU Caps - PostFX 93 FPS , 145 FPS

read avg rendering time when the value was stable for about 10sec

<540p> - 518400 pixels
6.95ms w/o opencl error diffusion
9.35ms with opencl error diffusion

2.40ms diff

4.63ns per pixel

<1080p> - 2073600 pixels
5.53ms w/o opencl error diffusion
13.45ms with opencl error diffusion

7.92ms diff

3.82ns per pixel

<2160p> - 8294400 pixels
23.77ms w/o opencl error diffusion
50.86ms with opencl error diffusion

27.09ms diff

3.266ns per pixel

Thanks. Makes a lot of sense. 8ms cost on a 1080p display is more than I would have liked, but I believe it's still very much in the "usable" area. After all, if you have a 1080p@24Hz capable display, you can spend up to 41ms on each frame. So 8ms is not great, but "ok", IMHO.

Originally Posted by baii

For 720p and 1080p content on 1440p monitor, is needi3 better ("sharper" w/o unwanted artifacts) than jinc3 in most situation?

Considering switch to AMD if so as AMD perform 2-3x better at same price point according to the benchmark result from nnedi3 opencl thread.

It's a little bit a matter of taste. Look at the v0.87.0 announcement post and the post after that to read about advantages and disadvantages of NNEDI compared to Jinc.

I wouldn't replace the GPU right now. madVR v0.87.x is just out for a week now. Give it a bit of time. Yes, AMD seems to have an advantage in OpenCL performance. But I plan to try DirectCompute, maybe it will close the gap. I don't know...

Originally Posted by huhn

the pf8008 doesn't have pc-mode in his manuel and that's not a cheap model...

the pf4508 is the smallest Philips with pc-mode and 3d but i'm not sure anymore...

Hmmmm... That might be an option, will look into it, thanks!

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Gagorian

Smooth motion is off (like I said presented at 23.976 Hz) and display resolution is 1080p. Newest catalyst drivers and AMD APP SDK 2.9 installed.

Weird, seems the cost for Error Diffusion is more than twice as high on your PC compared to mine, although your GPU should be around twice as fast as mine. I have no explanation for that right now.

[vivan]

Originally Posted by trip_let

1. Anybody else seeing this have Optimus (generally on laptops) Nvidia / Intel setup? I don't really think a GT 650M is fast enough for most of the OpenCL features anyway, but I want to confirm if it doesn't work for anyone else either or it's just me being dumb somewhere or somehow.

I have i5-2410M + 540M. It works fine (I have to force mpc-hc to use nVidia GPU by renaming it), however 540M barely can hadle luma doubling on SD 24 fps video with 16 neurouns.
I'm on some ancient drivers (310), though.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by madshi

Well, it seems to have something to do with what PotP does. You could try the various PotP settings to see if any of those fixes the problem. Maybe those new D3D9 PotP options to render the GUI in FSE mode is causing this problem? I don't know. Since this only seems to occur with PotP, I don't know if I can do much to fix it. This might be PotP's job to fix. In any case, I currently don't have the time to look into this.

Using its 2D GUI doesn't change anything and making bug reports to PotP's coder needs easy to reproduce steps...all I'm gonna end up with is "use othar player!!!!!!".

Basically if I switch to FS before or one second after mVR's OSD showed up then it's all good apparently. I've already looked into PotP's configuration but couldn't find the culprit.

Originally Posted by madshi

I don't see any indication that it supports 3D? And if it does, doesn't BenQ usually do that NVidia only 3D stuff? I need 3D to work with all GPUs.

If you want 3D in a TV you'll more than likely won't get 4:4:4 at all refresh rates and if you want 3D in a PC monitor you'll get a crummy TN panel. You'll have to go through a lot of trial & error in order to find what you want if it even exists IMHO and personally I'd go for the GW2760HS for coding as it's so easy on the eyes together with a 32" 3D TV for testing.

All this said, the 2760HM would also embed their flicker-free stuff now and it was sold for pretty cheap on the EU BenQ webstore.

[turbojet]

Concerning 3D displays. Aren't these the requirements for each brand:
nvidia: requires nvidia 3d display, runs on hardware
ati: requires hd3d/tridef software, runs on 3rd party software
intel: requires hdmi 1.4, runs on intel software

If the information I gathered is correct, nvidia 3d vision hardware is what to look for when shopping for displays. ASUS VG248QE has it at a decent price and 144hz although it doesn't score great on picture quality. Does high refresh have developing benefit? If you are looking for HQ, PLS displays can be had pretty cheap and get great PQ reviews.

iSunrise clip looks the same to me whether nnedi3 or bicubic75 chroma upsample and no yellow tint. There's quite a difference between film and video mode though. This is with a 250.

PotPlayerMini.exe is the exe name but it doesn't work in that profile example. It works with mpc-hc and mpc-be, something with potplayermini.exe. In task manager and process explorer it shows as PotPlayerMini.exe, is there something else I should check?

I've been thinking that all the hardware I've ever connected to a tv has very little banding. After losslessly capturing the content whether it be bluray, dvd, cable or broadcast and played on the computer it has all sorts of banding in all players as long as there's no debanding enabled. Is there a reason PC's show so much banding while other hardware doesn't? Is it gpu related?

[madshi]

Originally Posted by leeperry

If you want 3D in a TV you'll more than likely won't get 4:4:4 at all refresh rates and if you want 3D in a PC monitor you'll get a crummy TN panel. You'll have to go through a lot of trial & error in order to find what you want if it even exists IMHO and personally I'd go for the GW2760HS for coding as it's so easy on the eyes together with a 32" 3D TV for testing.

All this said, the 2760HM would also embed their flicker-free stuff now and it was sold for pretty cheap on the EU BenQ webstore.

You mean I should buy *two* new display? Sorry, too expensive, and I don't have the space. The Philips 32PFL4508 is my current favorite. It supports 3D at least, and the manual suggests a PC mode, although I'm not 100% sure if it will support 4:4:4. But it might be worth a try.

Originally Posted by turbojet

Concerning 3D displays. Aren't these the requirements for each brand:
nvidia: requires nvidia 3d display, runs on hardware
ati: requires hd3d/tridef software, runs on 3rd party software
intel: requires hdmi 1.4, runs on intel software

If the information I gathered is correct, nvidia 3d vision hardware is what to look for when shopping for displays.

No. I'm not looking to play 3D games. I'm looking for HTPC Blu-Ray 3D playback on an HDMI 1.4 display. All AMD, NVidia and Intel GPUs support that (in theory at least). So I need an HDMI 1.4 3D capable display, which I can also use as my primary PC monitor, so it needs to support 4:4:4.

[Werewolfy]

Originally Posted by madshi

You mean I should buy *two* new display? Sorry, too expensive, and I don't have the space. The Philips 32PFL4508 is my current favorite. It supports 3D at least, and the manual suggests a PC mode, although I'm not 100% sure if it will support 4:4:4. But it might be worth a try.

The Philips 32PFL4508 can be a good choice if chroma is not subsampled. It has an IPS Panel so contrast is about 1000:1 if it matters.

FWIW LG TV have also 4:4:4 support and at every refresh rates it seems. For example : LG 32LA620V. IPS Panel too.

If you can still find one, the SONY KDL-32HX755 does support 4:4:4 at every refresh rates and have 3D. VA Panel.

Samsung TV don't support 4:4:4 except in 60hz mode.

Here are all your options

[Soukyuu]

Originally Posted by madshi

Yes, smooth motion FRC is problematic in windowed mode. I've found that in windowed mode the max rendering times must be lower than the vsync time. Meaning with 60Hz, max rendering times must be smaller than 16.68ms. Otherwise playback will judder, even if no frame drops are recorded. In FSE mode, the situation is different. There rendering times only need to be smaller than the frame interval (e.g. 41.71ms for 24fps). There is probably nothing I can do about it. That's simply a limitation of D3D in windowed mode.

Argh! This really deserves a note somewhere. My rendering times are around 40ms in windowed mode, so all this time I have been wasting my GPU processing power for smooth motion that didn't work? D:

Also, though I know you're not taking feature requests... could you please add chapter marks on the exclusive mode progress bar? You already seem to have the code to get them since the tray icon shows them, so it shouldn't take much time to add them onto the progress bar as well?

[Shiandow]

Originally Posted by madshi

I've already ripped out the NVidia GPU in my development PC again. You know, it totally refuses to even acknowledge the precense of my LCD monitor, when connecting via DVI, while my Intel and AMD GPUs have no problems with that. FWIW, the NVidia does like my projector, when using DVI. I have to use VGA connection to get an image with the NVidia 650 on my LCD monitor. I can put the NVidia GPU back in, but doing so costs time and effort. So I'd need a 100% sure way to reproduce any specific problem.

So can anybody else with an NVidia GPU confirm/deny iSunrise's problem?

I was able to reproduce the same problem on an Nvidia GTX 560ti; enabling Nnedi3 chroma upscaling and deinterlacing at the same time makes the image yellow instead of gray.