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12th August 2013, 01:21 | #19821 | Link |
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I'm trying to verify the 3DLut created by ArgyllCMS. I'm using HCFR with madVR as pattern generator. As I'm running the greyscale series, is it normal that the grey screens are filled with some clear artifacting (posterization banding?)? Shouldn't it be homogenous? When playing the greyscale screens as .mp4 files from the AVSHD set there are no issues. There seems to be some compatibility issues as well, often the test patterns just freeze at 0/n. The ArgyllCMS patches in the madVR pattern generator also exhibit similar artifacting.
I also seem to be getting better results using DispcalGUI and generating a .icm profile and loading it than I did using the command lines to create a 3Dlut for MadVR. What are the advantages in madVR of a 3DLut compared a loaded .icm profile? I'm at least having issues with the full screen patterns, sometimes the deltaE's can go up to 15, but sometimes they are within 0-2 dE without doing any changes to the monitor or the profile. Is this an issue with the .icm profile not being applied? Last edited by Gagorian; 12th August 2013 at 12:20. |
12th August 2013, 01:23 | #19822 | Link |
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you can use jinc 3 ar with an hd 4000
just set the cpu queue to 9-16 gpu to 9 (or to backbuffer +1) backbuffer to 8 don't use smoothmotion and don't use fullscreen exclusive mode and ofc don't use jinc 3 for chroma. i didn't tryed it for 24hz +but u can try it. |
12th August 2013, 01:58 | #19823 | Link | |
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Quote:
Soft Cubic still rules for crappy encodes, esp. things like VCR captures and ancient AVIs. But Jinc 3+AR is da bomb for better quality videos. I played back a DVD rip that's 23.976 fps using Soft Cubic 70+AR and Jinc 3+AR. Smooth Motion activated, and it was all glorious. I'm still mucking about with Chroma settings, but without getting into a detailed method of comparison, just viewing a few files and changing them, I can't tell much difference. Soft Cubic 70+AR seems just fine. Anyway, thanks for all the help Last edited by ThurstonX; 12th August 2013 at 02:02. |
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12th August 2013, 09:12 | #19824 | Link | |
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Quote:
I (and I expect other too) use my HTPC and I don t want to notice ANYTHING about it beeing a PC. When I startup my system I immediately go to XBMC and I use MPC-BE as external player. The exclusive notification is the last esthetic thing I would like to see removed. |
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12th August 2013, 09:23 | #19825 | Link |
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Ok, so my situation is probably not a common one but just thought I'd mention it. When using different refresh rates with my particular monitor, the gamma curve of the display and/or luminance level darkens/lightens. Due to this I have to create separate ICC profiles and 3DLUTs.
However, madVR doesn't support loading of different 3DLUTs upon refresh rate switch therefore I just leave the monitor at 96Hz and disable the display mode switcher. However, that turns on smooth motion in cases where the refresh rate could have been switched to a multiple of the frame rate. Last edited by dansrfe; 12th August 2013 at 09:26. |
12th August 2013, 11:59 | #19826 | Link | |||
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Quote:
That said, generally increasing the number of taps will increase sharpness and reduce aliasing, but greatly reduce image quality due to the increase in ringing. (even with the AR filter enabled) I recommend sticking to the 3-tap variants of any algorithm. And as for Jinc 3 destroying details - it is a scaling algorithm that is best suited to video footage rather than computer graphics. (especially pixel art) One of the things which Jinc does compared to the other scaling algorithms available in madVR is that it will smooth out diagonal lines - which is normally great for video, but can be destructive with pixel art as you have found out. In some cases, you may even want to switch to Nearest Neighbor scaling when viewing pixel art. You can set up keyboard shortcuts to manually switch algorithms in madVR's preferences. (because you would not want to use Nearest Neighbor with other video content) I do think it is interesting that Jinc 3 turns the dither into the intermediate shade that it was trying to approximate though. This is something that CRTs did naturally (well, they did when using a poor connection at least - not via RGB) and is something that emulators are only just starting to tackle. Quote:
Most people will not see a difference between Bicubic 75 AR, Lanczos 3 AR, or Jinc 3 AR chroma. It also depends what your display is doing - many process in 4:2:2, so anything above Bicubic 75 AR is wasted. Quote:
The short version is to use one of the three options I listed above. Use Jinc 3 if your display is capable of showing 4:4:4 and you have the GPU power spare, but in most cases, you won't even see the difference there. I would be happy using Bicubic 75 AR. |
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12th August 2013, 13:32 | #19827 | Link | |
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i just tryd it on my second pc (amd 6770) and i can't reproduce it too.
it is still happening on my main pc (gtx 760) plus the bilinear/dxva flicker problem. so there is something wrong with my pc or nvidia ... Quote:
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12th August 2013, 19:20 | #19828 | Link | |
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Quote:
You've given me good food for thought. I have Jinc 3+AR for both on my main HTPC (core i5, Radeon HD 6670 w/ 1GB GDDR 5). I'll turn off AR for Chroma and see how that looks. On the Intel HD Graphics system in question Jinc 3+AR for Chroma disrupted the rendering, but I haven't had a chance to try it without AR. When I've time, I'll try it and the others you mention. It's mostly a TV PC (US digital through a Ceton InfiniTV 4), and most video files watched are low-res, so I end up with Soft Cubic ##+AR for Image. TV is an LG 42LD550. Anyway, thanks again |
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13th August 2013, 00:29 | #19829 | Link | |||
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It's really very rare that you need anything more than Bicubic 75 AR. http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...ostcount=16513 This comparison was done against Jinc 8, but it is not a recommendation for people to use Jinc 8 - Jinc 3 AR actually looks better than Jinc 8 99% of the time. If I recall correctly, I left Lanczos 3 out because it's almost indistinguishable from Bicubic 75. I probably wouldn't recommend anyone increase Chroma above Bicubic 75 AR unless they are already using Jinc 3 AR Luma, have a display capable of showing 4:4:4 chroma, and have GPU power to spare. Quote:
I think the anti-ringing filter has been improved since this comparison was made, but these images illustrate what happens when you use SoftCubic+AR: Pay attention to the edges of the X in particular. I don't recall there being problems using the AR filter with other algorithms. Chroma Resolution Test Pattern 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 examples using this pattern If your display processes chroma in 4:2:2, there's no need to use anything more than Bicubic 75 AR - even that may be more than you need. |
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13th August 2013, 00:55 | #19830 | Link | ||
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Quote:
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Cheers. |
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13th August 2013, 09:05 | #19832 | Link |
Kid for Today
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,477
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Yeah, kudos for the 4:4:4 split screen test pattern that allowed me to find out that only HD DVB-T is processed in full chroma resolution on my new flat screen. The trick I've found to get 4:4:4 HDMI is to enable PIP(with an HD DVB-T channel) then instantly turn if off et voilą! 4:4:4 mVR goodness
I'm now annoying their tech support to have its firmware fixed("oh my, it's going way over my head, nobody ever called us for this kind of problem" ), and they should take me seriously or I'll call their head office It's a shame this pattern can't easily be located and will end up drowned into this gigantic thread within a few weeks/months |
13th August 2013, 10:56 | #19834 | Link |
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I have some mkv movies and when the upstream says "full range" then I get "limited range" on my PC monitor ( too bright, no deep black ). I guess this is a bug or something, right? MPC HC without MadVr does show the same clips with correct, full range no matter what the upstream says. Incidentally, when MadVr gets "limited range" it outputs the movie correctly in full range...
Also, is there a way to get MPCHC's native OSD? I find it truly nice whilst on the other hand, MadVr's could get a few improvements in design...
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13th August 2013, 11:29 | #19835 | Link |
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@6233638:
As already mentioned by some people, your linked test-pattern does not work if your TV does 4:2:0 subsampling (4:2:0 and 4:4:4 looks identical). I personally dont like test-patterns that can show you wrong results, so i would thank you if you add this information to your (old) post. (even if only very old TVs are affected, we dont know how many people with a 4:2:0 TV are reading this thread ) |
13th August 2013, 16:37 | #19836 | Link | |
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Quote:
Without having access to a display which processes in 4:2:0, it's difficult for me to create a pattern which will test for that. Can someone with a Kuro (or another display known to process in 4:2:0?) test this? If your display is only capable of 4:2:0 resolution, you should not be able to see any lines in the left pattern, and I think the whole image will appear to be the same color. With a 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 display, the pattern on the left should appear to be distinct red and blue alternating lines. If your display is only capable of 4:2:2 resolution, the right pattern will appear to be noticeably darker than the center pattern, and seem to be a solid color. (example here) If your display is capable of 4:4:4 resolution, the patterns in the center and on the right should appear to be roughly the same color. They may differ slightly because one is made from horizontal lines and the other is a checkerboard pattern. |
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13th August 2013, 17:48 | #19837 | Link | |
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Quote:
Quite a few advanced features get lost when setting the input to 'PC'. May have to do some comparisons again, once the TV is free (oh when will that be? ;-) |
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13th August 2013, 18:49 | #19838 | Link |
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@6233638:
At 4:2:0 the lines in the left are still visible, but it looks much brighter than the middle+right http://s14.directupload.net/images/130813/3oys7o9q.jpg http://s7.directupload.net/images/130813/d2ej3diz.jpg http://s14.directupload.net/images/130813/27ckeana.jpg edit: i use my (cheap) LG LCD TV for this test, so not only Kuros are affected. Last edited by Skankee; 13th August 2013 at 18:55. |
13th August 2013, 21:40 | #19839 | Link | ||
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Quote:
Seeing your photographs gave me an idea though. Does this work for you? EDIT: Updated the pattern. Updated Pattern to test for 4:2:0 here: https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php...ostcount=25082 Hopefully this pattern will work to easily identify what your display is using for chroma processing. 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 should be obvious, and it seems that the image should just appear to be a solid color with 4:2:0 processing. 4:4:4 example, 4:2:2 example. EDIT: 720p friendly pattern. Quote:
Last edited by 6233638; 10th May 2016 at 14:54. Reason: Updated with a new pattern |
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13th August 2013, 22:09 | #19840 | Link |
Sebastian Ledesma
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 17
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Hi Madshi:
First thanks for MadVR, it's really cool. Second, there is a chance to have MadVR as processing filter? I want to upscale and frame rate adjust some streams. The output could be sent to a file, to a virtual camera device or to BlackMagic card. Thanks in advance! |
Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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