Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12th January 2018, 08:45   #48241  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
The queue is the problem but not the cause, something is messing with madVR's ability to present the frames as fast as it should.
Uninstall your graphics drivers, that tends to fix these sorts of issues, if it doesn't only then do a reset to defaults using the batch file.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 08:55   #48242  |  Link
maiden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
The queue is the problem but not the cause, something is messing with madVR's ability to present the frames as fast as it should.
Uninstall your graphics drivers, that tends to fix these sorts of issues, if it doesn't only then do a reset to defaults using the batch file.
I only updated the graphics driver last night does it really need done again?
maiden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 09:01   #48243  |  Link
maiden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by maiden View Post
I only updated the graphics driver last night does it really need done again?
uninstalled and deleted software now nvidia driver will not install, its ok rebooted

Last edited by maiden; 12th January 2018 at 09:06.
maiden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 09:17   #48244  |  Link
maiden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 19
uninstalled re installed new pic to view.
maiden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 11:36   #48245  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
Yeah so no change, reset madVR to defaults.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 12:38   #48246  |  Link
QBhd
QB the Slayer
 
QBhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 697
maiden, are you taking the screenshot while paused? We need to see the stats during playback.

QB
__________________
QBhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 18:36   #48247  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 331
Isn't 'smooth motion' a last resort setting and a huge memory hog? Why do people desire to render 23.976 @ 60Hz? Besides being 'free' and not costing any memory, wouldn't 'match refresh rate' be the better starting point option? If you're draining your queue down to nothing because you're out of memory, no wonder the screen is black right off the bat. Start with good basic settings. You shouldn't get black screens and fumble with a bunch of irrelevant settings trying to correct it imo.
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W11 Pro 24H2 GTX960-4GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI 22 MPC-HC/BE 82" Q90R Denon S720W
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 18:42   #48248  |  Link
YxP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 99
Many TV's just work better with PC if they can do 60hz. Like mine.
YxP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 18:54   #48249  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Isn't 'smooth motion' a last resort setting and a huge memory hog? Why do people desire to render 23.976 @ 60Hz? Besides being 'free' and not costing any memory, wouldn't 'match refresh rate' be the better starting point option? If you're draining your queue down to nothing because you're out of memory, no wonder the screen is black right off the bat. Start with good basic settings. You shouldn't get black screens and fumble with a bunch of irrelevant settings trying to correct it imo.
SM is pretty much free. it doesn't cast much memory either.
and if you run out of Vram you will not get a black screen you will just get rendertimes of doom.
the majority of TVs especially the majority of 2017 Samsung panels can't do 24p ever through nearly all TV support it as an input type.
they always turn it into 60 FPS by doing a 3:2 pull down(progressive).
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 19:28   #48250  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 331
You've lost me? I have a 240Hz Samsung panel.
240 divided by 24 = a perfect 10. It is devisable with no frames missing so there is no need for any pulldown.
120Hz divided by 24 = a perfect 5 with no frames missing the matched refresh rate of the TV either nor any need for pulldown.
60Hz divided by 24 = an imperfect match resulting in 12 frames missing which requires a 3:2 pulldown.
Every OSD including my panel shows my 24p movie is playing at 24Hz (judder free I might add) with no indication of a 3:2 pulldown in use.
What am I missing indicating my display, and the majority of TV's as you have pointed out, are actually rendering at 60Hz via 3:2 pulldown and how do I confirm this?

I understand IF the signal sent from a PC (just like a cable TV broadcast or what ever) is incorrectly sent at 60Hz, the panel is going to have to do a 3:2 pulldown since there will be 12 frames missing. But, we are not dealing with TV broadcast here. We are using madVR applied to file playback of (mostly) 23.976 video. Imo, exactly matching 23.976 (and even correcting it slightly to 24.000) presents the best picture quality. 23.976 played at 60Hz is simply wrong, imo of course.
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W11 Pro 24H2 GTX960-4GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI 22 MPC-HC/BE 82" Q90R Denon S720W

Last edited by brazen1; 12th January 2018 at 19:46.
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 19:43   #48251  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
majority=! all.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/mu7600
and never forget that more expensive models are sold in way lower quantities.

about 240 HZ on a VA panel... they have problems to get below 16 ms repsonse time or even below 20 ms in bad cases and they are far away from 4 ms...
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 20:00   #48252  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 331
huhn? Why are you presenting me a review about some TV or a response time "problem" about 240Hz that doesn't affect my movie watching experience? I thought we were about to discuss 3:2 pulldowns, why matching refresh rates is not a good idea, and the benefits of using 'smooth motion' before other adjustments would be considered?
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W11 Pro 24H2 GTX960-4GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI 22 MPC-HC/BE 82" Q90R Denon S720W
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 20:35   #48253  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
this TV can't do 24p like most other lower price 2017.
and this TV can't match 24p refreshrates so this is a perfect example of a TV where SM is closer to cinema than refreshrate matching.

this page test this.

and you shouldn't believe every number put on a TV.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 21:13   #48254  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 331
The refresh rate of that TV is 60Hz as advertised and you get (or don't get) what you pay for. I understand your point but by a show of hands, how many here are using a 60Hz display with madVR? To say "majority=! all.", then I am in the wrong forum apparently. My bad.

I've seen your response too. "Many TV's just work better with PC if they can do 60hz. Like mine. ". "if they can do 60Hz like yours" sounds like a benefit vs 120Hz. I simply disagree and will leave it at that.

I appear to have opened a can of worms. My intention was to help the person from a different perspective and provide my reasoning. That persons TV is a 120Hz refresh rate model fwiw. I don't know why all of the backlash but I'll leave it to you guys to sort him out and just go back to lurking.
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W11 Pro 24H2 GTX960-4GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI 22 MPC-HC/BE 82" Q90R Denon S720W
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 21:32   #48255  |  Link
nussman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 238
You are asking why people use 60hz for 24p sources.
If your display support 24p without any disadvantages (i.e. RGB 4:4:4, 3:2 pulldown etc.) there is no need to use 60hz.
Others can use SM. So whats your point?
nussman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 21:46   #48256  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
Content is smoother for many people using 60hz with smooth motion. I don't like the detail loss so I'll accept some panning "judder" for Anime and the likes to retain resolution.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 21:47   #48257  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 4,406
You cannot send more than 60 Hz to your TV. Right now there are no TVs that support 120Hz input at their native resolution, at least that I know of. Certainly not the lg55LF6300. From Consumer Reports: "Though it claims a "TruMotion 120" refresh rate, it's a 60Hz set and performs like one, with only fair motion blur reduction." You would need to input 24Hz. Native 120Hz input should be soon!

I use smooth motion for 24/1.001 fps content on my LG OLED55C7P. I do have a tuned custom refresh rate for 24p that doesn't drop any frames within >6 hours but the TV switching to another refresh rate bothers me more than smooth motion does (I don't notice smooth motion v.s. a matched refresh rate). For the majority of users smooth motion is a great place to start and end; you get high quality video without judder and you don't have to fiddle with timings or have the display change its refresh rate every time you open or close a video. I wouldn't call smooth motion a last resort and its performance and memory impact is very minor if you use ordered dithering (which I think looks better on my TV than either ED dithering option anyway ). Smooth motion is even better on a 120Hz display, I used it on my 120Hz monitor so I could use 120.000Hz instead of trying to tune a custom 119.880Hz mode without drops or repeats.
__________________
madVR options explained

Last edited by Asmodian; 12th January 2018 at 21:53.
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 22:13   #48258  |  Link
YxP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
I appear to have opened a can of worms.
Heh, take it easy. I for example lose 4:4:4 if I try to use 24hz input and it doesn't look any better than 60hz with SM. Your question just was so broad that I thought a quick comment would do without opening any cans
YxP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 22:29   #48259  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
The refresh rate of that TV is 60Hz as advertised and you get (or don't get) what you pay for. I understand your point but by a show of hands, how many here are using a 60Hz display with madVR? To say "majority=! all.", then I am in the wrong forum apparently. My bad.
it's not advertised as 60 HZ. they measured 60. BTW the 65JS8500 was measured at 120 hz.
Quote:
I've seen your response too. "Many TV's just work better with PC if they can do 60hz. Like mine. ". "if they can do 60Hz like yours" sounds like a benefit vs 120Hz. I simply disagree and will leave it at that.
my screen has a native 120 HZ that doesn't mean it can do that properly...
and yeah it is advertised at 800/960 hz.
Quote:
I appear to have opened a can of worms. My intention was to help the person from a different perspective and provide my reasoning. That persons TV is a 120Hz refresh rate model fwiw. I don't know why all of the backlash but I'll leave it to you guys to sort him out and just go back to lurking.
so what other explanation do you want?
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 22:51   #48260  |  Link
mclingo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,348
question, and this feels like a silly one, does it take a lot more processing to upscale a 720p DVDscr movie running at 29,70 hz than it would a 1080p bluray rip at 23,976 - I ask as my usual settings are struggling to play it smoothly, its glitching rather than dropping/repeating frames, its playing it at the correct mode, just think my RX550 is worse than I thought.

With no processing the 720p DVD scr only plays smooth with lanczos for image and choma, I dont have much sub 1080p material though.

(ignore the skip/repeated frames in the screen shot, i'd just skipped ahead and back in the movie)
Attached Images
 
mclingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 16:32.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.