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Old 4th November 2006, 15:32   #41  |  Link
celtic_druid
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If I recall, I modified the core so that a ratio of 0 really did disable N-VOP's. Anyone who wants to encode without N-VOP's, I would suggest a 1.2cvs+MTK build with a HT profile.

If it is really important for you to encode with 1.1.x and not have N-VOP's I could do another build. Just won't be marked 1.1.2.
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Old 4th November 2006, 15:55   #42  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celtic_druid View Post
If it is really important for you to encode with 1.1.x and not have N-VOP's I could do another build. Just won't be marked 1.1.2.
For my own very selfish requirements I would like such a build.... It's really useful for generating my test cards
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Old 4th November 2006, 19:52   #43  |  Link
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I don't know if this has something to do with what you are talking about. Encoding a movie with XviD 1.1.0 (Koepi's build):
Code:
Packed bitstream: No
QPel:             No
GMC:              No
Interlaced:       No
Aspect ratio:     Square pixels
Quant type:       H.263

I-VOPs: 2422 (1,25%)
P-VOPs: 97238 (50,33%)
B-VOPs: 93534 (48,41%)
S-VOPs: 0 (0,00%)
N-VOPs: 0 (0,00%)

Max consecutive B-VOPs:   1
With XviD 1.1.2 (Koepi's build):
Code:
Packed bitstream: No
QPel:             No
GMC:              No
Interlaced:       No
Aspect ratio:     Square pixels
Quant type:       H.263

I-VOPs: 2519 (1,30%)
P-VOPs: 97239 (50,33%)
B-VOPs: 93435 (48,36%)
S-VOPs: 0 (0,00%)
N-VOPs: 1 (0,00%)

Max consecutive B-VOPs:   1
With XviD 1.2 (included in AutoGK 2.36)

Code:
Packed bitstream: No
QPel:             No
GMC:              No
Interlaced:       No
Aspect ratio:     Square pixels
Quant type:       MPEG Custom

Custom intra matrix:
      8   9  10  11  12  14  16  18
      9  11  12  13  15  16  18  20
     10  12  14  16  17  19  21  22
     11  13  16  18  20  22  24  26
     12  15  17  20  23  25  28  30
     14  16  19  22  25  29  34  38
     16  18  21  24  28  34  46  52
     18  20  22  26  30  38  52  72

Custom inter matrix:
     16  16  17  17  18  19  21  23
     16  17  17  18  19  20  22  24
     17  17  19  20  21  23  24  27
     17  18  20  22  24  25  28  32
     18  19  21  24  26  29  36  40
     19  20  23  25  29  40  48  52
     21  22  24  28  36  48  60  64
     23  24  27  32  40  52  64 106

I-VOPs: 2530 (1,31%)
P-VOPs: 97291 (50,36%)
B-VOPs: 93372 (48,33%)
S-VOPs: 0 (0,00%)
N-VOPs: 1 (0,00%)

Max consecutive B-VOPs:   1
Why do I get one N-VOP with XviD 1.1.2 and 1.2? What can I do to avoid that?

Thanks.
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Old 4th November 2006, 20:25   #44  |  Link
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I don't think it has anything to do with what I'm talking about. Also, in my case I'm generating encodes "without" B-VOPs....


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Old 4th November 2006, 21:22   #45  |  Link
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Ok, I see...

Have you got any idea of why I get 1 N-VOP with some versions and none N-VOP with other versions?
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Old 4th November 2006, 21:38   #46  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numaios View Post
Ok, I see...

Have you got any idea of why I get 1 N-VOP with some versions and none N-VOP with other versions?
Sadly... I don't. Sorry
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Old 5th November 2006, 03:47   #47  |  Link
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With the 1.2 build from AutoGK, as I said earlier if you use a Home Theatre profile, then you shouldn't get any N-VOP's. I did that to make sure that the ESS option in AutoGK was actually compatible with ESS based players since I believe if a movie was very compressible AutoGK would disable bframes which will most likely cause N-VOP's.

As for your N-VOP. v1.1.0 I don't think generated N-VOP's with bframes enabled at all. Do you have packed bitstream enabled?

I really can't see a problem with N-VOP's personally. Any compliant decoder can handle them. Anything that can't is broken.
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Old 5th November 2006, 04:42   #48  |  Link
Liisachan
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I used celtic_druid's 1.1.0 to encode many things; it generated a few N-vops (cartoon mode is enabled), but I have no reason to dislike that at all. The file plays everywhere afaik and timing is frame accurate.
What's wrong about N anyway? I'm not one of them but there are even a lot of ppl who do quasi-vfr 120 fps with a ton of null frames.
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Old 5th November 2006, 05:20   #49  |  Link
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http://celticdruid.no-ip.com/test/xv...1.1.x.n-vop.7z

Anyone else noticed the effect of bitrate and quant matrix on the number of N-VOP's? 100 identical frames = 1 I-VOP, 99 N-VOP's with h.263/Q2. h.263/some bitrate = 95 N-VOP's, CQM/Q2 = 66 N-VOP's & CQM/some bitrate = 5 N-VOP's. Above build = 99 P-VOP's, 0 N-VOP's.
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Old 5th November 2006, 05:27   #50  |  Link
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The decision to code as N_VOP is based on whether macroblocks are skipped or not. More bitrate/better matrix = less blocks skipped = less N-VOPs.
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Old 5th November 2006, 10:53   #51  |  Link
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Many, many thanks CD

Just tried your build and it appears to be working fine. Should anybody else be interested (apart from me). Here are some sample Test_Cards_(with_N_&_P_VOPs).


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Old 6th November 2006, 11:11   #52  |  Link
numaios
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celtic_druid View Post
As for your N-VOP. v1.1.0 I don't think generated N-VOP's with bframes enabled at all. Do you have packed bitstream enabled?
I didn't get any N-VOP at all with v1.1.0 (only with v1.1.2), and packed bistream was disabled:
Code:
Packed bitstream: No
QPel:             No
GMC:              No
Interlaced:       No
Aspect ratio:     Square pixels
Quant type:       H.263

I-VOPs: 2422 (1,25%)
P-VOPs: 97238 (50,33%)
B-VOPs: 93534 (48,41%)
S-VOPs: 0 (0,00%)
N-VOPs: 0 (0,00%)

Max consecutive B-VOPs:   1
Quote:
I really can't see a problem with N-VOP's personally. Any compliant decoder can handle them. Anything that can't is broken.
An N-VOP means there is no frame? Why do they appear if packed bistream is enabled/disappear when disabled?

Quote:
Anyone else noticed the effect of bitrate and quant matrix on the number of N-VOP's? 100 identical frames = 1 I-VOP, 99 N-VOP's with h.263/Q2.
I see... Precisely, that N-VOP was inserted in a long and completely black scene...

Quote:
With the 1.2 build from AutoGK, as I said earlier if you use a Home Theatre profile, then you shouldn't get any N-VOP's. I did that to make sure that the ESS option in AutoGK was actually compatible with ESS based players since I believe if a movie was very compressible AutoGK would disable bframes which will most likely cause N-VOP's.
OK, now I understad. And using a HT profile with 1.1.2 would avoid N-VOPs too?
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Last edited by numaios; 6th November 2006 at 11:52.
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Old 6th November 2006, 14:27   #53  |  Link
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So you get N-VOP's when packed bitstream is enabled? Because the HT profiles forced packed bitstream so if that was the case then definatly using it in 1.1.2 would not avoid N-VOP's.

Anyone who 100% wants to avoid N-VOP's should either use my 1.2cvsMTK build with a HT profile or the above xvidcore-1.1.x.n-vop build with the drop ratio set to 0.

HT and other DXN equiv profiles encode without N-VOP's in my MTK builds because I modified it to override the drop settings in such a case. You could set the ratio to 100 and still get no N-VOP's. Regular XviD builds don't have this. With the 1.1 build, I simply modified the core so that a ratio of 0 actually disables N-VOP's.
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Old 6th November 2006, 22:17   #54  |  Link
numaios
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numaios View Post
I didn't get any N-VOP at all with v1.1.0 (only with v1.1.2), and packed bistream was disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by celtic_druid View Post
So you get N-VOP's when packed bitstream is enabled? Because the HT profiles forced packed bitstream so if that was the case then definatly using it in 1.1.2 would not avoid N-VOP's.
No, I get 1 N-VOP with NO packed bistream and with B-frames enabled, Advanced Simple@L5 profile, in version 1.1.2 and in version 1.2 bundled with AGK. As I posted before:

With Koepi's XviD 1.1.0, AS@L5 profile, drop ratio set to 0:
Quote:
Packed bitstream: No
QPel: No
GMC: No
Interlaced: No
Aspect ratio: Square pixels
Quant type: H.263

I-VOPs: 2422 (1,25%)
P-VOPs: 97238 (50,33%)
B-VOPs: 93534 (48,41%)
S-VOPs: 0 (0,00%)
N-VOPs: 0 (0,00%)

Max consecutive B-VOPs: 1
With Koepi's XviD 1.1.2, AS@L5 profile, drop ratio set to 0:
Quote:
Packed bitstream: No
QPel: No
GMC: No
Interlaced: No
Aspect ratio: Square pixels
Quant type: H.263

I-VOPs: 2519 (1,30%)
P-VOPs: 97239 (50,33%)
B-VOPs: 93435 (48,36%)
S-VOPs: 0 (0,00%)
N-VOPs: 1 (0,00%)

Max consecutive B-VOPs: 1
With XviD 1.2 bundled with AGK, unrestricted profile, drop ratio set to 0:
Quote:
Packed bitstream: No
QPel: No
GMC: No
Interlaced: No
Aspect ratio: Square pixels
Quant type: MPEG Custom

I-VOPs: 2530 (1,31%)
P-VOPs: 97291 (50,36%)
B-VOPs: 93372 (48,33%)
S-VOPs: 0 (0,00%)
N-VOPs: 1 (0,00%)

Max consecutive B-VOPs: 1
BTW, what does "CVS" stand for? I always read XviD 1.2 cvs but I haven't found its meaning in any page.
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Last edited by numaios; 6th November 2006 at 22:39.
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Old 6th November 2006, 23:31   #55  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numaios View Post
BTW, what does "CVS" stand for? I always read XviD 1.2 cvs but I haven't found its meaning in any page.
Concurrent Versions System.
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Old 6th November 2006, 23:35   #56  |  Link
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Thank you!
And it means that the codec gets updated although the version number doesn't change?
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Last edited by numaios; 6th November 2006 at 23:36. Reason: typo correction
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Old 7th November 2006, 01:00   #57  |  Link
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In this sense, it basically means "development version", which is sort of pre-alpha usually, as opposed to a beta or final build. 1.2 final is still a ways down the line, even though it's currently pretty stable.
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Old 7th November 2006, 03:00   #58  |  Link
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Try 1.1.2 with packed bitstream enabled and 1.2 with a HT profile.
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Old 15th November 2006, 20:40   #59  |  Link
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For various reasons I decided I need to do my own build (first time).
I already had Visual Studio 6 + SP5 + processor pack installed on a W2K system, so I downloaded the 1.1.2 zip file.

Followed the 'INSTALL' instructions...

Should I be getting warnings during build?

Code:
Compiling...
Command line warning D4002 : ignoring unknown option '/Qipo'
bitstream.c
J:\xvid\xvidcore-1.1.2\src\bitstream\bitstream.c(1387) : warning C4018: '<' : signed/unsigned mismatch
J:\xvid\xvidcore-1.1.2\src\bitstream\bitstream.c(1405) : warning C4244: '=' : conversion from '__int64 ' to 'int ', possible loss of data
J:\xvid\xvidcore-1.1.2\src\bitstream\bitstream.c(1406) : warning C4244: '=' : conversion from '__int64 ' to 'int ', possible loss of data
J:\xvid\xvidcore-1.1.2\src\bitstream\bitstream.c(1407) : warning C4244: '=' : conversion from '__int64 ' to 'int ', possible loss of data
plugin_2pass2.c
J:\xvid\xvidcore-1.1.2\src\plugins\plugin_2pass2.c(468) : warning C4244: 'function' : conversion from 'const double ' to 'const float ', possible loss of data
J:\xvid\xvidcore-1.1.2\src\plugins\plugin_2pass2.c(474) : warning C4244: 'function' : conversion from 'const double ' to 'const float ', possible loss of data
J:\xvid\xvidcore-1.1.2\src\plugins\plugin_2pass2.c(1358) : warning C4244: '=' : conversion from 'unsigned __int64 ' to 'double ', possible loss of data
J:\xvid\xvidcore-1.1.2\src\plugins\plugin_2pass2.c(1541) : warning C4244: 'initializing' : conversion from 'double ' to 'const float ', possible loss of data
plugin_single.c
J:\xvid\xvidcore-1.1.2\src\plugins\plugin_single.c(191) : warning C4244: '=' : conversion from 'double ' to '__int64 ', possible loss of data
encoder.c
J:\xvid\xvidcore-1.1.2\src\encoder.c(848) : warning C4018: '==' : signed/unsigned mismatch
J:\xvid\xvidcore-1.1.2\src\encoder.c(848) : warning C4018: '==' : signed/unsigned mismatch
J:\xvid\xvidcore-1.1.2\src\encoder.c(1557) : warning C4018: '!=' : signed/unsigned mismatch
(edit - found the vfw file )

Last edited by plugh; 15th November 2006 at 20:53.
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Old 15th November 2006, 23:45   #60  |  Link
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then, 1.1.2 or 1.2 ?

and, i forgot, have to uninstall the old xvid?
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