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Old 19th July 2013, 01:31   #1581  |  Link
foxyshadis
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Try using Process Explorer from Sysinternals to see exactly which DLLs are being loaded. Note that when manually loading the way you are, you're attempting to pull from the current folder (usually wherever the viewer resides, or the script) then from anywhere else on the system path, which may include some odd locations not on the main drive.

In Process Explorer, you use View->Show Lower Pane then View->Lower Pane View->DLLs to see exactly what's loaded.
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Old 19th July 2013, 17:18   #1582  |  Link
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is Pel pertaining to whether your source is interlaced, telecined and/or progressive, or does it pertain to something else? I was under the assumption that Pel=1 was used if your source is progressive, and Pel=2 if it is interlaced.

But then in the FastDegrain doc, I read that the higher the Pel, the better the motion vector. Can someone please clarify this?

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Old 19th July 2013, 17:21   #1583  |  Link
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is Pel pertaining to whether your source is interlaced, telecined and/or progressive, or does it pertain to something else? I was under the assumption that Pel=1 was used if your source is progressive, and Pel=2 if it is interlaced.

But then in the FastDegrain doc, I read that the higher the Pel, the better the motion vector. Can someone please clarify this?

Thanks

No, it's motion estimation accuracy

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pel : it is the accuracy of the motion estimation. Value can only be 1, 2 or 4. 1 means a precision to the pixel. 2 means a precision to half a pixel, 4 means a precision to quarter a pixel, produced by spatial interpolation (more accurate but slower and not always better due to big level scale step). Default is 2 since v1.4.10.
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Old 19th July 2013, 17:26   #1584  |  Link
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Please consult http://avisynth.org.ru/mvtools/mvtools2.html

Pel is not related to progressive or interlaced material. It is used to tell how accurately the motion will be estimated. At pel=1, the super clip is not scaled at all, at pel=2 it is twice as big and at pel=4 it's four times as big. A bigger value for pel is not necessarily better as there's no way to scale an image by four times and not have any errors created by the extrapolation. Unless you live in the CSI world, that is Personally I would leave it at the default which is pel=2.

Basically I would leave all the values at their defaults as there's probably a reason why they are select. If you got the CPU power to spare, maybe use dct=5 and search=5 in the MAnalyse calls.
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Old 19th July 2013, 19:52   #1585  |  Link
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I understand that using dct=5 uses the SATD (sum of absolute transformed differences) instead of SAD (sum of absolute differences) for luma. In your experiences, does this improve the motion estimation accuracy in a significant manner? for instance, in fast motion with animation, does it help in preventing blurring/ghosting at quick motion in dark scenes? I'm gonna try this for myself when I get home, but it's nice to hear from others while I'm stuck at this desk.
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Old 19th July 2013, 19:53   #1586  |  Link
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Thanks PDR and Boulder for explaining PEL
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Old 19th July 2013, 20:09   #1587  |  Link
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It's been quite a long time since I tested the differences, but if I recall correctly, the differences were mostly in the areas of higher contrast. I didn't test performance in the dark frames/areas much, but I think someone (was it *.mp4guy?) did some testing and found out that it helps there.
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Old 19th July 2013, 20:12   #1588  |  Link
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Splendid!
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Old 19th July 2013, 20:12   #1589  |  Link
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Oh (as columbo would ask) one more thing, please folks if you have room for just one additional question: blocksize. 8 or 16? make any difference?
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Old 19th July 2013, 20:15   #1590  |  Link
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Smaller is more accurate but more affected by noise. I personally use 8 with overlap 4 for all my stuff. If I use MRecalculate after that, I use blksize 4 and overlap 2 for SD stuff and blksize 8, overlap 4 for anything higher than that.
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Old 19th July 2013, 20:23   #1591  |  Link
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I use overlap 2. But in my script it's written as 8/2 (as per the way it's in the documentation). Is adding the / even necessary?

My stuff is analog SD and I'm using Mdegrain3. I'm thinking of using blcksize 4 if that's the case, since I'm prefiltering anyway.
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Old 19th July 2013, 20:54   #1592  |  Link
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Overlap 8/2 == 4
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Old 29th July 2016, 17:11   #1593  |  Link
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what rfilter in MSuper do (Technical details, I know it did smoothing)? is it effect if pel = 1?
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Old 29th July 2016, 17:27   #1594  |  Link
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what rfilter in MSuper do (Technical details, I know it did smoothing)? is it effect if pel = 1?
nothing
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Old 29th July 2016, 22:11   #1595  |  Link
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I understand that using dct=5 uses the SATD (sum of absolute transformed differences) instead of SAD (sum of absolute differences) for luma. In your experiences, does this improve the motion estimation accuracy in a significant manner? for instance, in fast motion with animation, does it help in preventing blurring/ghosting at quick motion in dark scenes? I'm gonna try this for myself when I get home, but it's nice to hear from others while I'm stuck at this desk.
My finding which I posted in VS forum.

Search 6 and 7 works the best for me, based on the dominant movement in particular source/scene. I asked if this could be dynamically changed ahead of final calculations. 5 gives very different characteristic for final frames, never as good as when correct option 6 or 7 is chosen based on scene dominant movement.
Another interesting (or not) thing is fallback method. When you try interpolate low fps sources than quite often motion adaptive method fails giving huge artefacts. Some pro solution have fallback mode, which at some threshold switches to simple frame blending for given frames. In case of fps conversion (in current world of hybrid sources, e.g. 25p mixed with 50i) this is sometimes useful option.
Other than this mvtools results are very good. I'm thinking if anything more can be done. There is something called phase correlation, is this used in mvtools? I would like to see something reliably converting 24p to 25p, which is at the moment only a dream

DCT hits performance a lot, but sometimes helps on fades etc.

Last edited by kolak; 29th July 2016 at 22:13.
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Old 30th July 2016, 13:24   #1596  |  Link
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nothing
why it there then?

pel use resizer to upscale frame, is rfilter for the downsize to original dimension?
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Old 30th July 2016, 13:36   #1597  |  Link
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why it there then?

is rfilter for the downsize to original dimension?
yeah, rfilter stands for reducing filter
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Old 30th July 2016, 13:41   #1598  |  Link
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yeah, rfilter stands for reducing filter
and if pel = 1? did nothing?
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Old 30th July 2016, 13:45   #1599  |  Link
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and if pel = 1? did nothing?
pel = 1 means no upscaling nor downscaling (precision by a single pixel)
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